HD Format War? What War?

[dondon]

Never
Twice
the
Same
Colour

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Alan,

Many TVs accept 24 fps input but then they ruin it by converting it back up to the dreaded 60 Hz again. The TV applies the 3:2 pulldown so an input of ABCD becomes AAABBCCCDD when it is displayed.

What is needed is a TV that accepts 24 fps and just evenly doubles (2:2) or triples (3:3) each frame evenly. 5:5 is just showing each of the 24 frames 5 times in a row evenly and is no "better" than 3:3. What is important is that the player or the TV does not show uneven number of frames (3:2 or 5:4).

I have a mode on the TV called exact scan that only comes on when I play BD, is that what you mean?

[Pottsy]

No - your TV accepts a 24 Hz signal but then converts it to 60 Hz again, so you get the judder. Have a look at the reviewer here dated 20 Dec.

[sonicsteve]

My PS3 and TV give me an awesome picture, I am outputting via HDMI andeveryone who sees it is very impressed. The PS3 is upgradeable and Sony have already made improvements in the Blue Ray playback via one of the firmware updates.

The PS3 is the cheapest upgradable Blue Ray player (DLNA Client, Media Centre, Games Console), and in the Spring the Play TV service comes out which will allow you to use the PS3 as a DVR which can then either download or stream to your PSP if you have one.

I'm just waiting for Paramount to start releasing Blue Ray disks so I can replace some of my very old VHS Videos.

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

No - your TV accepts a 24 Hz signal but then converts it to 60 Hz again, so you get the judder. Have a look at the reviewer here dated 20 Dec.

Oh well - you get what you pay for

As I only had a budget of £650, it was the best I could get. Apart from that flaw it appears to get reasonable reviews. There appears to be less judder than watching the same BD on my brother's 32" Samsung LCD TV

[TTDegs]

what res is BD output at?

apparently my (cheap as chips, but all I was allowed to spend at the time ) TV can do:
tv.gif

so the lower res can do multiples of 24, but the higher ones are either 70 or 75

I'm guessing 70 might be better, and loose the occasional A, rather than 75 and have it put the odd extra A in...


LOL - completly out of my depth now!

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

what res is BD output at?




LOL - completly out of my depth now!

I think we are swimming together!!!

The BD discs I have output at 720p, 1080i or 1080p depending on the disc. On the back of the disc it will say what the max output is.

[TTDegs]

just about afloat...

High-definition video - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

High definition video (prerecorded and broadcast) is defined threefold, by:

• The number of lines in the vertical display resolution. High-definition television (HDTV) resolution is 1080 or 720 lines. In contrast, regular digital television (DTV) is 480 lines (upon which NTSC is based, 480 visible scanlines out of 525) or 576 lines (upon which PAL/SECAM are based, 576 visible scanlines out of 625). However, since HD is broadcast digitally, its introduction sometimes coincides with the introduction of DTV. Additionally, current DVD quality is not high-definition, although the high-definition disc systems HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc are.
• The scanning system: progressive scanning (p) or interlaced scanning (i). Progressive scanning redraws an image frame (all of its lines) when refreshing each image. Interlaced scanning draws the image field (every other line or "odd numbered" lines) during the first image refresh operation, and then draws the remaining "even numbered" lines during a second refreshing. Interlaced scanning yields greater image resolution if subject is not moving, but loses up to half of the resolution and suffers "combing" artifacts when subject is moving.
• The number of frames per second or fields per second. The 720p60 format is 1280 × 720 pixels, progressive encoding with 60 frames per second (60 Hz). The 1080i50 format is 1920 × 1080 pixels, interlaced encoding with 50 fields per second. Sometimes interlaced fields are called half-frames, but they are not, because two fields of one frame are temporally shifted. Frame pulldown and segmented frames are special techniques that allow transmitting full frames by means of interlaced video stream.

For commercial naming of the product, either the frame rate or the field rate is dropped, e.g. a "1080i television set" label indicates only the image resolution.[1] Often, the rate is inferred from the context, usually assumed to be either 50 or 60, except for 1080p, which denotes 1080p24, 1080p25, and 1080p30, but also 1080p50 and 1080p60 in the future.
A frame or field rate can also be specified without a resolution. For example 24p means 24 progressive scan frames per second and 50i means 25 interlaced frames per second, consisting of 50 interlaced fields per second. Most HDTV systems support some standard resolutions and frame or field rates. The most common are noted below. High-definition signals require a high-definition television or computer monitor in order to be viewed. High-definition video has an aspect ratio of 16:9 (1.78:1). The aspect ratio of regular widescreen film shot today is typically 1.85:1 or 2.40:1 (sometimes traditionally quoted at 2.35:1). Standard-definition television (SDTV) has a 4:3 (1.33:1) aspect ratio, although in recent years many broadcasters have transmitted programs "squeezed" horizontally in 16:9 anamorphic format, in hopes that the viewer has a 16:9 set which stretches the image out to normal-looking proportions, or a set which "squishes" the image vertically to present a "letterbox" view of the image, again with correct proportions.

[TTDegs]

High-Definition Display Resolutions

Resolution (W×H) Pixels Aspect Ratio Video Format Description
1024×768 786,432 16:9 (non-square pixels) 720p/XGA Used on PDP HDTV displays with non square pixels
1280×720 921,600 16:9 720p/WXGA Used on Digital television, DLP, LCD and LCOS projection HDTV displays
1366×768 1,049,088 16:9 720p/WXGA—HDTV standard format Used on LCD/PDP HDTV displays (HD Ready, HD Ready 720p,1080i)
1024×1080 1,105,920 16:9 (non-square pixels) 1080p Used on PDP HDTV displays (Full HD, HD Ready 1080p)
1280×1080 1,382,400 16:9 (non-square pixels) 1080p Used on PDP HDTV displays (Full HD, HD Ready 1080p)
1920×1080 2,073,600 16:9 1080p—HDTV standard format Used on all types of HDTV technologies (Full HD, HD Ready 1080p)
4096×2160 8,847,360 16:9 2160p DCI Cinnema 4k standard format Quad HDTV, (there is no HD Ready 2160p Quad HDTV format)

[TTDegs]

so - the highest res my TV can do is the lowest true HD spec of 1024x768, which is 720p

my TV can only run 720p at 60/70/75Hz

so it looks like I'm in for a bit of a stutter with BD

unless Sony release a firmware patch to sort it out
(somehow! )

[alanwalne]

24 FPS Compatible: Enables the display of a 24 frames per second input at the native frame rate of the TV (50/100 Hz).

24 FPS Compatible with 5:5 pull-down: From a 24 frames per second input the image processing replicates the exact frames in sets of 5 to virtually eliminate 'Film Judder' artefacts.


Just found this on Toshiba's website, unfortunately my telly is only the former. It is £300 more for the higher spec one so it was the former or nothing!!!!

[alanwalne]

Which frequency should be a multiple of 24?

Should it be the Horizontal Frequency, the Vertical Frequency or the Pixel Frequency?????

[Pottsy]

Alan, vertical frequency. You can see you have 50 and 60, but that's it. 59.94 is 60, NTSC SD style.

TT - looks like 720p60 for you (like me).

[TTDegs]

cheers Pottsy

confused again now though
If my TV can do it (haven't tried it yet, as still working on the wife about the PS3!), wouldn't 720p70 or 720p75 give less judder?

60/24 = 2.5
70/24 = 2.92
74/24 = 3.08

or have I missed something obvious (again!)

[Pottsy]

It might be worse - but either way you'll never know because HD players will only send 24 or 60 Hz. That will make the display default to 60 Hz output.

[TTDegs]

LOL - that'll be "yes, you've missed something obvious again" then!

[Foggy69]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

We have both the LSW games for xbox1, and yes I have had to buy the complete saga to "test" the PS3. Will let you know after I have the component input board!

Surely the only way to play Lego Star Wars is on the Wii.
Using a normal controller to wield the light sabre must be dull compared with controlling the light sabre with the Wii controller.
The only problem is, you probably look like a complete idiot jumping around your living room waving the controller around like you are a Jedi Knight, but it is great fun

All the excuse you need to get a Wii