I need to rant.....

[FWH]

Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier

Didn't think people with this much sense still existed!

ATB,
Tom

Only on Civinfo!

[Moose]

VOTE FOR THE HONDA CIVIC SPACESHIP PARTY FOR A HAPPY LIFE

You know it makes sense

[FWH]

Originally Posted by Moose

VOTE FOR THE HONDA CIVIC SPACESHIP PARTY FOR A HAPPY LIFE

You know it makes sense

a PARTY?

sounds good to me.

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by Foggy69

The Tory party of today is very similar to the Tory party of old. A lot of the top bods are still leftovers from the failures of the Tory past. They have a leader who is more about style than substance. They still consider Margaret Thatcher as a great leader

I don't remember much that I could be happy about under the previous Tory government. Waiting lists got longer at the NHS. House repossessions rocketed. Inflation rocketed. High unemployment. Public assets were sold off to make very rich people even richer. Workers lost much of their employment protection, making exploitation of the work force easier. Bus deregulation. The decimation of the manufacturing industries.
And the privatisation of British Rail. What a superb railway system that gave us.

There are probably some good things to come out of the period, but much of the country suffered greatly at the hands of Thatcher.


Thanks Pumatron, I needed a rant too.

In short the Tory Party of the Thatcher reign took Great Britain from being the 3rd poorest country in the EU to being one of the richest. Thatcher took the risks that were needed to encourage wealth, pride and entrepreneurial-ism. Thatcher changed britain for the better and that is why they were in power for so long. Remember the 70's? Let's not go back there, eh!

One of the biggest problems with Britain is it's disdain for wealth and wealthy people. We are embarrassed to be wealthy but desire to be wealthy! a contradiction. However, on the whole british people are quite wealthy when we travel to other countries due to the pound being valued higher than many other currencies.

You know the Labour Party of 1997 has done some good things too! We need to stop throwing the baby out with the bath water and start looking at what is best for britain.

High unemployment was the result of building a better, more efficient country, developing different technologies and preparing for the future. It was also about beating the unions and the satanic hold they had on business. I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water when it comes to unions - people need unions to portray their views at the highest level of business - what unions shouldn't do is attack business for being in business.

If you are to label the Tory party as that of the Thatcher era, then you have to label the Labour party of that of the Kinnock/foot era! Again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Not every thing or everyone is bad. Of course people make mistakes.

If we are to change Britain we need to stop arguing over the fine print and develop strategies that empower people to grow!

[NEEMSTAR]

happyman for PM - get your votes in people

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by NEEMSTAR

happyman for PM - get your votes in people

LOL

[Foggy69]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

In short the Tory Party of the Thatcher reign took Great Britain from being the 3rd poorest country in the EU to being one of the richest. Thatcher took the risks that were needed to encourage wealth, pride and entrepreneurial-ism. Thatcher changed britain for the better and that is why they were in power for so long. Remember the 70's? Let's not go back there, eh!

One of the biggest problems with Britain is it's disdain for wealth and wealthy people. We are embarrassed to be wealthy but desire to be wealthy! a contradiction. However, on the whole british people are quite wealthy when we travel to other countries due to the pound being valued higher than many other currencies.

You know the Labour Party of 1997 has done some good things too! We need to stop throwing the baby out with the bath water and start looking at what is best for britain.

High unemployment was the result of building a better, more efficient country, developing different technologies and preparing for the future. It was also about beating the unions and the satanic hold they had on business. I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water when it comes to unions - people need unions to portray their views at the highest level of business - what unions shouldn't do is attack business for being in business.

If you are to label the Tory party as that of the Thatcher era, then you have to label the Labour party of that of the Kinnock/foot era! Again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Not every thing or everyone is bad. Of course people make mistakes.

If we are to change Britain we need to stop arguing over the fine print and develop strategies that empower people to grow!

I am too young to remember the 70's

Thatcher might have increased the wealth of the country, but it was only at the top of the tree that people saw the benefits. She hated the working classes with venom, and ensured that as little as possible of the wealth created ever reached them. I am fully aware that the unions were there own worst enemy, but the ferocity she used to try and destroy them went far beyond reasonable, and has left Britain with a workforce that is one of the easiest to exploit in the 'old' Europe.
Her term in office also encouraged the 'me me me' attitude. This has helped to create the selfish society we live in today, where people only care about themselves and sod everyone else. It was the rise of the 'something for nothing' attitude. I want my bins emptied, I want police on the beat. I want lots of new motorways. But I want to pay much lower taxes! We want cheap products, we get cheap products, our Civic been a good example of cost cutting
And at the bottom of the tree, her policies also helped create the despair and alienation that is all too prevalent now among the young and poor. She created a generation that couldn't get work because there was no jobs, and had to live on benefits. So when the economy did get better, a whole generation thought, why bother, we have lived off benefits for so long, we may as well continue. They then pass this attitude onto the next generation, and so we find the fodder for Daily Mail stories.

The Tories have tried to change in the last few years, but it all seems to be about PR and image, rather than substance. How else do you explain how a buffoon like Boris Johnson is the candidate for mayor of London. And you definitely can't still label Labour as the Foot/Kinnock era, as the are only slightly left of the Tories now. Tube PPP anyone?

I am a trade unionist and Labour supporter, but I feel ashamed of the Labour party. Not only because it has failed on too many of it's promises, but also the unending PR bulls**t. There's that phrase again, PR.

I would love to see some consensus politics in Britain, and get away from the childish antics of parliament.
Lets take the best ideas, put them into action, and support the staff that have to make it work. The constant changes to the NHS and the railways is why the management can't actually concentrate on providing services. They are always too busy trying to work out how to get the next re-organisation to work

Although we have differing political views, and very different opinions on Maggie, I agree with most of your list of answers in post 53 of this thread.
I think it basically boils down to 'bring back some confidence, sanity and common sense'

[Unknownsoldier]

I agree, if we bought these back we could rebuild a decent society.

I had the good fortune of meeting Tony Benn in London at a conference, some years ago, a very nice man and of course ardent labour supporter, even he was disollutioned with what the Labour party has become.

Tom

[Topcat]

I wouldnt normally comment about things like this for fear of offending someone but I have to say that this country is becoming less British by the day and I for one find it extremely worrying.

The red arrows have been banned from the 2012 olympics because they are deemed "too british" - im sorry I thought the hosting country was Britian!!!

Some schools do not celebrate easter and last Christmas a local school to me scrapped its tradional Christmas play because it was deemed unacceptable in such a mixed culture !!!!!!! THIS IS GREAT BRITIAN Grrrrrrrrrrr

Think the Great can be removed its going down the pan.

[allan40alt]

Originally Posted by Topcat

I wouldnt normally comment about things like this for fear of offending someone but I have to say that this country is becoming less British by the day and I for one find it extremely worrying.

The red arrows have been banned from the 2012 olympics because they are deemed "too british" - im sorry I thought the hosting country was Britian!!!

Some schools do not celebrate easter and last Christmas a local school to me scrapped its tradional Christmas play because it was deemed unacceptable in such a mixed culture !!!!!!! THIS IS GREAT BRITIAN Grrrrrrrrrrr

Think the Great can be removed its going down the pan.

Well I have already decided not to watch, or support, anything to do with the next, or 2012, Olympics....

...and I shall still celebrate our traditional Christmas unlike some Councils who cancel it by calling it a 'Winter Festival' but still celebrate and refer to Diwali as 'Diwali' , and not rename it 'Lights Festival'. Must say though I do like to see Diwali, it's so colourful and gay; oh, sorry, I mean colourful and happy!

[HappyMan]

In my opinion it is these very things: No red arrows at the Olympics, not celebrating Christmas etc that are destroying the very nature of Great Britain. We continually apologise for being British - but seemingly everyone wants to come to Britain because it is so great!

In every respect I think that it is politicians that are ruining the country not the average man. The media doesn't help either, but at least they don't make our laws!

As you know I live in Poland and I have an American friend who has lived here a lot longer than me but started to complain bitterly about Poland. Some of what he said had merit but a lot of what he said was actually quite racist towards the Polish people and I had had enough and I told him this " If you don't like it, go back to America" He shut up, then.

My biggest gripe with Politicians(from all parties) in the UK is that they are always apologising for the country being British and holding onto British values, rarely do they champion them. Look at Gordon Brown when he said let's have 'Britishness days' he was laughed at - I thought it was a great day. The whole issue with flying the union jack is absurd - let's fly it and be proud of it - let's honour those that fought for and ensured our freedom.

My goodness I am a ranter!!!!

[HappyMan]

Hey, Foggy I was young then too but I remember one afternoon sitting with my parents and their staff in the company without any electricity - I have no idea how old I was but I was young - honest.

Whatever we say about politics we all have differing views but I sense even from our differing views that people desire change, even long for change and that will only come by letting your voice be heard. The only way that our voice can be heard is to vote.

In the Polish elections last year I stuck to a slogan for the Poles I met which was this ' No Vote, No Voice, No complaints' This was because in 2005 a lot of people didn't vote and they got a government that made the communist look like amateurs. This time I told them if you don't vote you can't complain - I think everyone I knew voted are were too scared to tell me they didn't!!

Originally Posted by Foggy69

I am too young to remember the 70's

Thatcher might have increased the wealth of the country, but it was only at the top of the tree that people saw the benefits. She hated the working classes with venom, and ensured that as little as possible of the wealth created ever reached them. I am fully aware that the unions were there own worst enemy, but the ferocity she used to try and destroy them went far beyond reasonable, and has left Britain with a workforce that is one of the easiest to exploit in the 'old' Europe.
Her term in office also encouraged the 'me me me' attitude. This has helped to create the selfish society we live in today, where people only care about themselves and sod everyone else. It was the rise of the 'something for nothing' attitude. I want my bins emptied, I want police on the beat. I want lots of new motorways. But I want to pay much lower taxes! We want cheap products, we get cheap products, our Civic been a good example of cost cutting
And at the bottom of the tree, her policies also helped create the despair and alienation that is all too prevalent now among the young and poor. She created a generation that couldn't get work because there was no jobs, and had to live on benefits. So when the economy did get better, a whole generation thought, why bother, we have lived off benefits for so long, we may as well continue. They then pass this attitude onto the next generation, and so we find the fodder for Daily Mail stories. I am not saying she was 100% right in her approach nor in the attitude it created but what she and the tory party did for the 11 years she was PM was to revolutionise the UK into what it is today. Change is painful and sadly that change resulted in many people being unemployed but what were we to do - continue operating national companies at a huge loss thus rendering them uncompetitive in the wider market? Something had to be done and Thatcher did it her way and to a large extent it worked. I am not saying that she was pure and all things holy but she tried to make this country a better place - towards the end of her time she did become a little 'strange' shall we say!

The Tories have tried to change in the last few years, but it all seems to be about PR and image, rather than substance. How else do you explain how a buffoon like Boris Johnson is the candidate for mayor of London. And you definitely can't still label Labour as the Foot/Kinnock era, as the are only slightly left of the Tories now. Tube PPP anyone? Of course you can still label the Labour Party of the Kinnock age because that is where good old Blair and Brown and others learnt their trade. I think Boris Johnson is one of the most misunderstood and wrongly characterised politicians in the country. He has a fantastic mind, great whit and an ability to say what a lot of people are thinking - just at the wrong time!

I am a trade unionist and Labour supporter, but I feel ashamed of the Labour party. Not only because it has failed on too many of it's promises, but also the unending PR bulls**t. There's that phrase again, PR. There is nothing wrong with being a Trade unionist as long as the TU has the business and the people in their thinking. And some industries need Trade Unions to represent them at the highest level.

I would love to see some consensus politics in Britain, and get away from the childish antics of parliament.
Lets take the best ideas, put them into action, and support the staff that have to make it work. The constant changes to the NHS and the railways is why the management can't actually concentrate on providing services. They are always too busy trying to work out how to get the next re-organisation to work Exactly, this is just political wrangling and has nothing to do with business and the continuity of business. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Although we have differing political views, and very different opinions on Maggie, I agree with most of your list of answers in post 53 of this thread.
I think it basically boils down to 'bring back some confidence, sanity and common sense' Exactly

[Foggy69]

Originally Posted by Topcat

The red arrows have been banned from the 2012 olympics because they are deemed "too british" - im sorry I thought the hosting country was Britain!!!

Sorry TC, but you have been led astray.
I seem to remember that this story came from The Sun school of journalism.
ie complete bol**cks.
Red arrows banned from Olympics for being too British

With quality journalism like this and from the Daily Mail and Express, continuously feeding us stories about how the white middle class brit will disappear in a puff of smoke next week. Then, 12 million Albainians will move into their semi in a quiet suburban street, set up drug gangs, break into ever house in the road, and get away with it because the police will be too tied up in red tape to be able to prosecute them. If you say it enough, people will start to believe it. Much of what they publish is misleading, and some of it is false.

Britain is far from perfect, but I believe it is a damn sight better than certain journos would have us believe.
The cynic in me reckons they print all this guff to pursued people to emigrate to the Med because they all have shares in housing complexes in the area

[jazzman]

Originally Posted by Foggy69

Sorry TC, but you have been led astray.
I seem to remember that this story came from The Sun school of journalism.
ie complete bol**cks.
Red arrows banned from Olympics for being too British

With quality journalism like this and from the Daily Mail and Express, continuously feeding us stories about how the white middle class brit will disappear in a puff of smoke next week. Then, 12 million Albainians will move into their semi in a quiet suburban street, set up drug gangs, break into ever house in the road, and get away with it because the police will be too tied up in red tape to be able to prosecute them. If you say it enough, people will start to believe it. Much of what they publish is misleading, and some of it is false.

Britain is far from perfect, but I believe it is a damn sight better than certain journos would have us believe.
The cynic in me reckons they print all this guff to pursued people to emigrate to the Med because they all have shares in housing complexes in the area

VOTE FOR THE HONDA CIVIC SPACESHIP PARTY you know it makes sense

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by jazzman

VOTE FOR THE HONDA CIVIC SPACESHIP PARTY you know it makes sense

A party that promised to be 'out of this world'

[alanwalne]

Perhaps your vote should be multiplied by the amount of tax you pay. As its your money being wasted, perhaps you should have more of a say who wastes it.