Advise

rogie · 31st March 2008, 22:39

Hi All,

Need some advise on this matter. I got stopped tonight with Traffic police on grounds off using a mobile phone while driven.

I explained I was taken my phone from my belt clip in order to dock it in the cradle for use on hands free.

They checked out my hands free in the car then said they are still issueing fixed penalty on the grounds I had a phone in my hand while driving!

They also stopped me 1 mile away from the incident.

Should I appeal this or pay fixed penalty.

Cheers
Rogie

britsbest · 31st March 2008, 22:44

I'd PX yours for an EX with hands free from any where !

Dimplyred · 31st March 2008, 22:45

If they are saying they are issuing a fixed penalty for having a phone in your hand whilst driving, and you did have a phone in your hand whilst driving, then it is probably best just to accept it and pay the fixed penalty.

rogie · 31st March 2008, 22:55

will my insurance rocket due to those 3 points?

smurf79 · 31st March 2008, 23:00

Prove that you weren't on a call and that you were just moving the phone. Get in contact with your network provider and ask them for a list of all calls made and received on the day of the incident and this will prove your innocence. My wife knows this because she used to work for O2 and the police cannot do you without proof that you were on the phone

Dimplyred · 31st March 2008, 23:07

If they can issue the fixed penalty simply on the grounds you were holding the phone whilst driving and not using it then I would just pay it. If they issued it because they thought you were using it then as smurf79 says get proof from your service provider that you weren't using it at that time. You need to do a bit of research to see what the law actually says about holding/using a phone while driving.

Dimplyred · 31st March 2008, 23:12

Take a look at this: http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/The...eDriving.htmlk

More importantly where it says this:

Can I use a hands free phone?
Yes you can. Essentially, you are allowed to push buttons, but not to hold the phone, so make sure it’s in a cradle which is attached to your dashboard. However, do remember that if you are stopped for driving in a poor or careless manner and the police discover that you were using a hands-free mobile phone, you can still be prosecuted for not having proper control of your vehicle - the penalty for which is the same as it is for using a hand held phone while driving - a £60 fine and 3 penalty points.

It states you are not allowed to hold the phone while driving.

sallytraffic · 31st March 2008, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimplyred

If they can issue the fixed penalty simply on the grounds you were holding the phone whilst driving and not using it then I would just pay it. If they issued it because they thought you were using it then as smurf79 says get proof from your service provider that you weren't using it at that time. You need to do a bit of research to see what the law actually says about holding/using a phone while driving.

RAC say:

What does the law say?

The legislation makes it illegal to use your phone if you hold the phone at any point during its use. The law also applies to any interactive device such as PDAs or navigation aids. "Holding" includes cradling the phone between your ear and shoulder.

Salford City Council say:

It is illegal to use a hand-held mobile phone when driving and the penalties have increased. As from 27th February 2007 you will now receive a £60 fine and three penalty points on your licence. Points can mean higher insurance costs and can lead to disqualification.

Department of Transport say:

New legislation to increase the penalty for using a hand-held phone whilst driving came into force on 27 February 2007. The £30 fine was increased to £60 and three penalty points on your licence. Penalty points can mean higher insurance costs. If you get six points within two years of passing your test, your licence will be revoked and you will need to re-sit the test. If the case goes to court, you could risk a maximum fine of £1,000, which rises to £2,500 for the driver of a bus, coach, or heavy goods vehicle.

Note :

The highlights on the words use or using are mine. I have not yet found anything to suggest 'holding' a mobile phone is an offence ? Can anyone find such a comment anywhere ?

sallytraffic · 31st March 2008, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimplyred

Take a look at this: http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/The...eDriving.htmlk

More importantly where it says this:

Can I use a hands free phone?
Yes you can. Essentially, you are allowed to push buttons, but not to hold the phone, so make sure it’s in a cradle which is attached to your dashboard. However, do remember that if you are stopped for driving in a poor or careless manner and the police discover that you were using a hands-free mobile phone, you can still be prosecuted for not having proper control of your vehicle - the penalty for which is the same as it is for using a hand held phone while driving - a £60 fine and 3 penalty points.

It states you are not allowed to hold the phone while driving.

Looks like DR has found one BUT.. the sentence referred to about holding the phone is subject to the title ' Can I use a hands free phone' so maybe not quite so clear cut.

I think we need a lawyer !!

Dimplyred · 31st March 2008, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sallytraffic

I think we need a lawyer !!

I think we do.

aslz78 · 31st March 2008, 23:37

I would write a letter to them. Tell them your story, being as polite as possible. Then cite the quotes given by Sallytraffic and say you will take them to court.

rogie · 31st March 2008, 23:46

need too look into this in more detail. thx for all your advice.

On the ticket time status 18:45hrs ...... I phoned the wife at 19:00hrs after traffic police had gone therefore phone log will go in my favour.

When I did start to question why the ticket was getting issued as I wasn't on the phone.... reply was given even thou you are not making a call its still an offence holding phone while driving.

pcr · 1st April 2008, 00:01

Just one more thing, if you contest your case and lose, it may cost you thousands. It's geared up to discourage people from contesting fixed fines.
Personally, I'd pay up and forget about it.

Dimplyred · 1st April 2008, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

Just one more thing, if you contest your case and lose, it may cost you thousands. It's geared up to discourage people from contesting fixed fines.
Personally, I'd pay up and forget about it.

My thoughts exactly. Although it seems unfair it is probably the cheapest option.

sallytraffic · 1st April 2008, 00:31

All hinges on :

Is it really an offence to hold a phone while driving ?

Could be one of those things that needs to be tested in court. But if that is the case and you are not up for that then DR and pcr's approach could be the sensible option.

Sad to say...

TTDegs · 1st April 2008, 05:33

a few links from google (I searched on "holding mobile driving") which imply / state that is the 'holding' which is the issue, rather than the 'using'.
First one is actually an exact replica of your situation

It looks like the key element is that it is possible for a policeperson to see you holding the phone - but they can't necessarily see that you are using it.
Therefore, it looks like the holding is the key.
I have no idea if the phone records would prove (or disprove) that you weren't actually reading a text message?
(Not implying that you were, but if the cops believe you looked like you were doing, can you prove you weren't?)

Caught holding but not using a mobile phone while driving: should I plead not guilty? — The Roadside Lawyer

RAC Know-How - Owning a car - Safety & Security - Driving and mobile phones - FAQs (1st FAQ)

Driving - Consumer Advice from The Carphone Warehouse
(although this one is a link to the 2003 law, not the 2007 update)

swarb.co.uk :: View topic - "Using mobile phone while driving"the def of using
(another one very similar to yours)

There were others (200,000 hits), but that should be enough to give you a flavour...

Topcat · 1st April 2008, 07:32

It is ridiculous really "holding" a mobile phone!

Does that mean people should also be fined for "holding" any object in their hand whilst driving?

simon1 · 1st April 2008, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topcat

It is ridiculous really "holding" a mobile phone!

Does that mean people should also be fined for "holding" any object in their hand whilst driving?

Actually, if some of the headlines are to be believed, then the answer is 'yes'. People have been done for holding an apple, a drink, now there's talk about catching drivers holding a cigarette. Hey, why bother catching real criminals when innocent drivers are such easy targets.

NEEMSTAR · 1st April 2008, 09:44

why are they allowed to hold their police in car radios and drive ?

sallytraffic · 1st April 2008, 09:59

Like or not, TT has found the evidence I was looking for. And NOT is the operative word

Clear enough from the link to the 'Roadside Lawyer' that the offence IS to hold a mobile phone, or at least the interpretation of the law is such in order for the police to make a prosecution stick.

At this stage, if it were me, I would certainly feel that to 'grin and bear it' was the only sensible option.

A real lesson for us all here, certainly for me. I'll not even be holding a phone in the car any more. It will stay in my shirt pocket or in the glovebox.

Thanks for those 'finds', TT, not the result we wanted but I think we have the answer now.

And I will STILL see plenty of people USING their phones as I drive, perhaps that is why the interpretation is being applied like this.

Sorry, rogie, it does not look good.

31st March 2008, 22:39	#1 (permalink)
rogie Valve Cap Join Date: 27th March 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Advise Hi All, Need some advise on this matter. I got stopped tonight with Traffic police on grounds off using a mobile phone while driven. I explained I was taken my phone from my belt clip in order to dock it in the cradle for use on hands free. They checked out my hands free in the car then said they are still issueing fixed penalty on the grounds I had a phone in my hand while driving! They also stopped me 1 mile away from the incident. Should I appeal this or pay fixed penalty. Cheers Rogie

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads for: Advise
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Please Advise	jamescora	Cleaning and Styling	4	20th July 2007 22:24
Advise about place decal	hannibal555	Cleaning and Styling	12	9th July 2007 16:20
New member / advise needed	rogie	Introduce yourself	8	4th April 2007 00:17
Questions thinkin about a civic........................advise please	shakie1973	Buying, Dealers and Servicing	3	22nd February 2007 19:08
Questions about my Civic.. pls advise	jamescora	General Discussion	5	19th January 2007 14:57


This thread is about: Advise, it's in Any non Civic chat here please! at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Hi All, Need some advise on this matter. I got stopped tonight with Traffic police on grounds off using a mobile phone while driven. I ...

31st March 2008, 22:44	#2 (permalink)
britsbest Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 9th September 2006 Location: Cheadle Hulme Posts: 228 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'd PX yours for an EX with hands free from any where !

31st March 2008, 22:45	#3 (permalink)
Dimplyred Type R GT 09570 Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th August 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 3,253 Thanks: 16 Thanked 41 Times in 41 Posts	If they are saying they are issuing a fixed penalty for having a phone in your hand whilst driving, and you did have a phone in your hand whilst driving, then it is probably best just to accept it and pay the fixed penalty.

31st March 2008, 22:55	#4 (permalink)
rogie Valve Cap Join Date: 27th March 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	will my insurance rocket due to those 3 points?

31st March 2008, 23:00	#5 (permalink)
smurf79 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2007 Location: Bolton, England Posts: 299 Thanks: 3 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	Prove that you weren't on a call and that you were just moving the phone. Get in contact with your network provider and ask them for a list of all calls made and received on the day of the incident and this will prove your innocence. My wife knows this because she used to work for O2 and the police cannot do you without proof that you were on the phone

31st March 2008, 23:07	#6 (permalink)
Dimplyred Type R GT 09570 Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th August 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 3,253 Thanks: 16 Thanked 41 Times in 41 Posts	If they can issue the fixed penalty simply on the grounds you were holding the phone whilst driving and not using it then I would just pay it. If they issued it because they thought you were using it then as smurf79 says get proof from your service provider that you weren't using it at that time. You need to do a bit of research to see what the law actually says about holding/using a phone while driving.

31st March 2008, 23:12	#7 (permalink)
Dimplyred Type R GT 09570 Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th August 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 3,253 Thanks: 16 Thanked 41 Times in 41 Posts	Take a look at this: http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/The...eDriving.htmlk More importantly where it says this: Can I use a hands free phone? Yes you can. Essentially, you are allowed to push buttons, but not to hold the phone, so make sure it’s in a cradle which is attached to your dashboard. However, do remember that if you are stopped for driving in a poor or careless manner and the police discover that you were using a hands-free mobile phone, you can still be prosecuted for not having proper control of your vehicle - the penalty for which is the same as it is for using a hand held phone while driving - a £60 fine and 3 penalty points. It states you are not allowed to hold the phone while driving.

31st March 2008, 23:37	#11 (permalink)
aslz78 The voice in your head Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 17th September 2007 Location: Spalding, Lincolnshire Posts: 182 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I would write a letter to them. Tell them your story, being as polite as possible. Then cite the quotes given by Sallytraffic and say you will take them to court.

31st March 2008, 23:46	#12 (permalink)
rogie Valve Cap Join Date: 27th March 2007 Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	need too look into this in more detail. thx for all your advice. On the ticket time status 18:45hrs ...... I phoned the wife at 19:00hrs after traffic police had gone therefore phone log will go in my favour. When I did start to question why the ticket was getting issued as I wasn't on the phone.... reply was given even thou you are not making a call its still an offence holding phone while driving.

1st April 2008, 00:01	#13 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 842 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Just one more thing, if you contest your case and lose, it may cost you thousands. It's geared up to discourage people from contesting fixed fines. Personally, I'd pay up and forget about it.

1st April 2008, 00:31	#15 (permalink)
sallytraffic Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 7th January 2008 Location: Sale, UK Posts: 410 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	All hinges on : Is it really an offence to hold a phone while driving ? Could be one of those things that needs to be tested in court. But if that is the case and you are not up for that then DR and pcr's approach could be the sensible option. Sad to say...

1st April 2008, 05:33	#16 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	a few links from google (I searched on "holding mobile driving") which imply / state that is the 'holding' which is the issue, rather than the 'using'. First one is actually an exact replica of your situation It looks like the key element is that it is possible for a policeperson to see you holding the phone - but they can't necessarily see that you are using it. Therefore, it looks like the holding is the key. I have no idea if the phone records would prove (or disprove) that you weren't actually reading a text message? (Not implying that you were, but if the cops believe you looked like you were doing, can you prove you weren't?) Caught holding but not using a mobile phone while driving: should I plead not guilty? — The Roadside Lawyer RAC Know-How - Owning a car - Safety & Security - Driving and mobile phones - FAQs (1st FAQ) Driving - Consumer Advice from The Carphone Warehouse (although this one is a link to the 2003 law, not the 2007 update) swarb.co.uk :: View topic - "Using mobile phone while driving"the def of using (another one very similar to yours) There were others (200,000 hits), but that should be enough to give you a flavour...

1st April 2008, 07:32	#17 (permalink)
Topcat Supporter Civinfo guru Join Date: 11th May 2006 Location: Middlesex Posts: 2,739 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	It is ridiculous really "holding" a mobile phone! Does that mean people should also be fined for "holding" any object in their hand whilst driving?

1st April 2008, 09:44	#19 (permalink)
NEEMSTAR Nobody gets out alive Rocketship door handle Join Date: 7th October 2007 Location: In your mind Posts: 1,032 Thanks: 24 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts	why are they allowed to hold their police in car radios and drive ?

1st April 2008, 09:59	#20 (permalink)
sallytraffic Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 7th January 2008 Location: Sale, UK Posts: 410 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Like or not, TT has found the evidence I was looking for. And NOT is the operative word Clear enough from the link to the 'Roadside Lawyer' that the offence IS to hold a mobile phone, or at least the interpretation of the law is such in order for the police to make a prosecution stick. At this stage, if it were me, I would certainly feel that to 'grin and bear it' was the only sensible option. A real lesson for us all here, certainly for me. I'll not even be holding a phone in the car any more. It will stay in my shirt pocket or in the glovebox. Thanks for those 'finds', TT, not the result we wanted but I think we have the answer now. And I will STILL see plenty of people USING their phones as I drive, perhaps that is why the interpretation is being applied like this. Sorry, rogie, it does not look good.