Younger drivers - Posts split from Type R insurance

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

Now back to your comment about the mazda RX8 you make a valid point about it being only a 1.3 engine but isn't the power a little bit stronger than a normal 1.3 engine?

Yeah, 210 bhp i think
Was a joke really
If that scheme was ever introduced (which it never would imo) then im sure the government would realise the rx8 is a special 1.3
To be fair though most new drivers don't drive powerful cars anyway due to insurance prices so this scheme is pretty much forced on us for a few years , and from "statistics" it seems it still don't work.
Although i would like to know how many of the accidents that 17-25 year olds are involved in, are due to high speed compared to other age groups.

[harleyfatboy]

Vet2010 and Neemstar ... If i had to chose two buddies to go out ridin with...... Man it would be you guys....Thank you both for your comments , FOUR WHEELS MOVE THE BODY TWO WHEELS MOVE THE SOUL .......

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by harleyfatboy

Vet2010 and Neemstar ... If i had to chose two buddies to go out ridin with...... Man it would be you guys....Thank you both for your comments , FOUR WHEELS MOVE THE BODY TWO WHEELS MOVE THE SOUL .......

Thanks HFB
but i might not be "experienced" to drive my R anymore

.....INEXPERIENCED IN MY R I RIDE ....

[Jack The Lad.]

So, when are we meeting up at a Tooting Pub then HFB.

[R-2]

Originally Posted by harleyfatboy

Vet2010 and Neemstar ... If i had to chose two buddies to go out ridin with...... Man it would be you guys....Thank you both for your comments , FOUR WHEELS MOVE THE BODY TWO WHEELS MOVE THE SOUL .......

HFB are you also pinktype r as you have the same signature ie FOUR WHEELS......etc?

[harleyfatboy]

R2......No thats my wife i bought her a harley and had it customized.... And had the bike taken back to the old skool look ...but its pink....It must be different enough...Every women that sees it wants to buy it ...also won a couple of shows with it ....ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by NEEMSTAR

Yeah, 210 bhp i think
Was a joke really
If that scheme was ever introduced (which it never would imo) then im sure the government would realise the rx8 is a special 1.3
To be fair though most new drivers don't drive powerful cars anyway due to insurance prices so this scheme is pretty much forced on us for a few years , and from "statistics" it seems it still don't work.
Although i would like to know how many of the accidents that 17-25 year olds are involved in, are due to high speed compared to other age groups.

There are some interesting statistics here:

http://www.abi.org.uk/BookShop/Resea...%20Drivers.pdf

Although in some of their statistics young women don't do very well. The statistics change when it comes to speed related accidents and there is a huge difference between young women and young men.

It's actually a very interesting read and maybe adds some argument to those of us who feel we are 'more experienced'.

[robbo51]

I add this from the document:

WHY DO YOUNG DRIVERS HAVE A POOR ROAD SAFETY RECORD?

There are two main reasons why young drivers have a poor safety record: a lack of road
experience, and an inclination to take unnecessary risks.

Road experience

Because of their lack of driving experience, many young drivers have a poor appreciation of road conditions and are unable to adapt their driving style where necessary. Accordingly, they often overestimate their ability and safety on the road. This lack of experience explains over one third of all accidents involving young drivers

Inexperience leads to accidents: in particular when driving at night, negotiating bends, driving at high speeds, and driving on wet roads.

I have said this all along.

[harleyfatboy]

Neemstar.... But i might not be experienced to drive my R anymore......Happyman has found a list of stats .....Dont go there man its a cyber depressant .....Where would we all be without stats?.....Your too thin , fat , hyper , dead,.... The list to infinity and beyond...Just send me your keys man...ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by harleyfatboy

Neemstar.... But i might not be experienced to drive my R anymore......Happyman has found a list of stats .....Dont go there man its a cyber depressant .....Where would we all be without stats?.....Your too thin , fat , hyper , dead,.... The list to infinity and beyond...Just send me your keys man...ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

Sadly HFB we live in a statistical world and statistics were what we needed to continue the discussion on a more even keel. Whilst I don't think all young people can be tied with the same brush I do feel the statistics I found are representative of reality - sadly.

Let's not go down the road saying young people can't have nice cars - that's unfair but, maybe like the report says and Unknownsoldier mentioned too that maybe more learning is needed and more restrictions are needed to reduce accidents and deaths on our roads in relation to young people.

[robbo51]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

Sadly HFB we live in a statistical world and statistics were what we needed to continue the discussion on a more even keel. Whilst I don't think all young people can be tied with the same brush I do feel the statistics I found are representative of reality - sadly.

Let's not go down the road saying young people can't have nice cars - that's unfair but, maybe like the report says and Unknownsoldier mentioned too that maybe more learning is needed and more restrictions are needed to reduce accidents and deaths on our roads in relation to young people.

I fully endorse what your saying HM
Restrictions are a way forward IMO

[HappyMan]

I don't think this thread is against young people I actually think is about the preservation of life. Whilst when we were young we didn't like to be told what to do - but when we get older we realise we were wrong in not listening.

The question is: Are restrictions on young people in the first couple of years of driving a death prevention attempt or a move against young drivers?

[robbo51]

Originally Posted by HappyMan

I don't think this thread is against young people I actually think is about the preservation of life. Whilst when we were young we didn't like to be told what to do - but when we get older we realise we were wrong in not listening.

The question is: Are restrictions on young people in the first couple of years of driving a death prevention attempt or a move against young drivers?

Primary care...All about prevention..A lesson for life
My niece told me this. Shes a doctor in A&E

[harleyfatboy]

Happyman....A balanced answer man...But i must say all of my years of drivin and ridin both here , europe , australia , america , which are described as developed.... one things evident... people of all ages drive with little or no consideration to signs, speed , or other peoples drivin abillity check out when your in your car man ...you aint got no car behind you... man your towin it.... all ages ,.... your at a junction to turn... the car behind cant wait spins out in front and turns where you are headin no patience ,...all ages ...cell phone ....all ages...lane splittin on motorways ...all ages... taxi drivers see a fare... spin round in front of you bus drivers drive by intimidation in this case size matters ...experience wheres it at man ...stats are records of events that have been loged ...where are the ones that havent... described above.... ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by harleyfatboy

Happyman....A balanced answer man...But i must say all of my years of drivin and ridin both here , europe , australia , america , which are described as developed.... one things evident... people of all ages drive with little or no consideration to signs, speed , or other peoples drivin abillity check out when your in your car man ...you aint got no car behind you... man your towin it.... all ages ,.... your at a junction to turn... the car behind cant wait spins out in front and turns where you are headin no patience ,...all ages ...cell phone ....all ages...lane splittin on motorways ...all ages... taxi drivers see a fare... spin round in front of you bus drivers drive by intimidation in this case size matters ...experience wheres it at man ...stats are records of events that have been loged ...where are the ones that havent... described above.... ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

I have said all along that 'experience' isn't always to do with age as in NEEMSTARS case where there is a large chance that his drive to Uni is more than many people do in a week. I live in a country where I have to be for ever vigilant of other drivers and that has increased my experience.

I agree with your point HFB, and as you say we all have 'moments of madness' whilst driving and near misses.

The question I asked, though was: Are restrictions on young people in the first couple of years of driving a death prevention attempt or a move against young drivers?

and an additional question would be: If as young drivers we all had a longer practice time covering more road situations, would we be better drivers today?

[Pottsy]

The only good way to address the dangers of youth, inexperience and poor practices of more experienced drivers is better initial and then some recurrent training.

Every driver is at some stage young.
Every driver is at some stage inexperienced.

All drivers receive just one batch of minimal training, and for most that is just not enough. Is the inconvenience of additional training too high a price to pay for saving lives?

Speed (and in some ways fast cars) are a secondary factor. Attempting to curb speed and power is like putting a plaster on a tumour. The root cause in accidents involving speed and power is the driver, not the car. Limiting the car to negate all driver stupidity will not work (and is effort in the wrong direction) since the car would have to be limited to a survivable speed - around 30 to 40 mph.

Some people will need more training than others, but all people need more than one batch on slow roads when they turn 17. If you put millions of poorly trained drivers onto a road system, then it's only natural to expect a load of casualties.

[NEEMSTAR]

what restrictions would you place
i really don't think it would work

e.g
restrict young drivers to smaller engined cars for 3 years
but you have a rich youngster
as soon as his 3 years are up he will buy a powerful car and make up for lost time ?

[Unknownsoldier]

Originally Posted by Jack The Lad.

I'm still suffering from the stress of my finals taken 30 years ago.

I'm just recovering from my dissertation deadline, didn't sleep 'properly' (read less than an hour a night ), for four days leading up to that one.

Dread to think what's gonna happen at my next deadline.

Tom

[harleyfatboy]

Happyman... Question 2.. first if by practice time you mean..... and include driving lessons.... should we not look back towards the driving instructor ..they are after all the ones that put the younger driver forward for their test rightly or wrongly they conclude the male or female to be ready.... should we question their judgement....NO.... they in their oppinion have put the person forward on ability shown... a standard and criteria having been met , as my previous post pointed out.... across ALL AGES lessons are forgotten or ignored ....Mostly ignored ... Question 1 How can you put a time frame on restrictions 1 year 2 years 5 years believe me laws are flouted now ...and then what you are doing is painting every young driver with the same brush saying your all irrisponsible so we will forget your driving instructor , test examiner , and implement a third test of sorts and call it death prevention course ....You cannot or will not stop any age of driver from behaving in a dangerous fashion unless of course you take away their toys...ON A STEEL HORSE I RIDE

[Pottsy]

Originally Posted by harleyfatboy

You cannot or will not stop any age of driver from behaving in a dangerous fashion unless of course you take away their toys...

I disagree.

In many cases the driver does not realise he is being dangerous, or how great the risk he is taking actually is.

Rather than remove his toy, it might be more realistic and practical to teach him of his errors, possibly using vivid graphical aids to drive the point home.