Is this going too far? - Civinfo

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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 19:20 Thread Starter
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Is this going too far?

I'm not a smoker but is this going too far?
Call for ban on smoking in cars - Yahoo! News UK
How will white van man cope?
OK...when there are children in the car...its common sense
Your thoughts?
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 19:22
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Going too far. We can't have laws against everything just because some people have no common sense.
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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 19:36
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Labour have brought us 4300 new laws. After no smoking in your own car will, I guess, come limitations on how much smell you can make in your own bog, what time you have to go to bed and how you must vote at the next election.
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 19:37
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Slightly off topic but essentially similar

I'm a Doc (Obstetrics specialist trainee (deliver babies)) and you would not believe the number of mums-to-be who stand around outside the maternity unit chain smoking. They're in labour asking for epidurals for pain but don't want to wait around for an anaesthetist, they'd rather have a smoke!!!!

I saw a 16 year old in clinic who told me she was smoking more in pregnancy than before she got pregnant because she'd heard it makes the baby small = less pain/stretching of ...anything that might need to stretch!

As a junior dr I worked in respiratory med for 6 months. If kids spent a week of work experience nursing people who can't sleep because if they fall asleep they die, most would be terrified of taking up smoking. 1 old boy asked me to prescribe sedatives for him with tears rolling down his face so he could sleep, he had smoking related lung damage. I had to say no because I'm not allowed to kill people. I hate smoking, shame I have so many friends who are smokers

Rant over. Sorry folks.
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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:07 Thread Starter
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I didnt vote for them either Pottsy!!
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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:09
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" and 200 cases of meningitis in youngsters are also thought to be linked to the effects of second-hand smoke " - what absolute garbage ! - meningitis is caused by viral or bacterial infection - this is just another example of the UK's plethora of scare stories, where the objective is simply to accustom the population to being instructed and controlled ...

I'm a life-time non-smoker (my circa 20 cigars a year don't count !) and I've yet to be convinced that 1st. hand smoking is a genuine health risk ! ...

Sure, there will be those who are sensitive to or readily affected by cigarette smoke in their lungs - just as there are people who have a low tolerance for shellfish \ alcohol \ cat hair \ nuts \ solvents - but we choose what we consume, and it's NOT the business of Governments to impose a restriction ...

2nd. hand smoking ? - I don't believe that there is any such thing - cigarette smoke does \ can contain carcinogens, but only as a product of burning and only while the smoke is just produced - smoke blown into the air (while I really don't like the smell !) has essentially zero danger ...

I liked going to pubs where everyone was in the one place - now, half the folk are standing outside all the time ! - yes, tobacco smoke in your hair \ on your clothes is (for me) deeply unpleasant, so I mostly used pubs that had effective ventilation systems - but nobody forced me to do that, and I could choose to go to "smoky-drinky" places if I wanted ...

3rd. hand smoking ? - oh yes, the control freaks are already on this case ! - now " old smoke in fabrics can damage the health of anyone coming into contact with it " ! - idiots ...

Just think of the UK's rules today - it's forbidden to smoke on a railway platform, as your 2nd. hand smoke will immediately kill anyone who is in eyesight - then along come half a dozen diesel locomotives, belching out NOx \ Soot \ Particulates, that are equivalent to about a million cigarettes ! - does that make sense - stuff me if it does !!! ...

Read this and weep - p.s. - I contributed ...

Old Holborn: Nick Hogan – Without those Walls!

--------------------------------------------------

p.s. - if there was any residual doubt - yes Robbo, I think this going too far !!! ...

Last edited by J. Derek Riddell; 24th March 2010 at 20:12. Reason: the p.s. ...
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:18 Thread Starter
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I thought you might contribute to this discussion JDR!!
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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:20
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Like it or not...when someone is over 18...they are an adult.
They are also legible to make their own personal choices on what they do with their own sovereign territory.....themselves.

Yes it is unfortunate that you can foresee a probability of conditions arising. But remember that this is a probability not a certainty.

Noone has the right to take away anyones personal choices unless it impacts on them personally. For better or for worse.
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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbieo View Post
Slightly off topic but essentially similar

I'm a Doc (Obstetrics specialist trainee (deliver babies)) and you would not believe the number of mums-to-be who stand around outside the maternity unit chain smoking. They're in labour asking for epidurals for pain but don't want to wait around for an anaesthetist, they'd rather have a smoke!!!!

I saw a 16 year old in clinic who told me she was smoking more in pregnancy than before she got pregnant because she'd heard it makes the baby small = less pain/stretching of ...anything that might need to stretch!

As a junior dr I worked in respiratory med for 6 months. If kids spent a week of work experience nursing people who can't sleep because if they fall asleep they die, most would be terrified of taking up smoking. 1 old boy asked me to prescribe sedatives for him with tears rolling down his face so he could sleep, he had smoking related lung damage. I had to say no because I'm not allowed to kill people. I hate smoking, shame I have so many friends who are smokers

Rant over. Sorry folks.
Some good points there - as I wrote, I'm sure that some people are damaged by smoking, but it should one's own choice as to how to live (provided one doesn't thereby harm or impact others) ...

Personally, I'd prefer it if folk didn't smoke and often try to convince those who do to stop, but I'm damned if that gives me the right to impose my opinion and \ or wishes ...

So, for those who are anti-smoking to say so and explain their viewpoint is just fine by me - to have a Government impose restrictions is not - freedom of thought and word and deed were dearly won by most Democracies - let's not surrender them lightly ...

(Anti-Establisment \ Anti-Government \ Anti-Big-Brother rant over ) ...
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbo51 View Post
I thought you might contribute to this discussion JDR !!
Actually, I was wondering why other people were posting in MY thread ! ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pottsy View Post
Labour have brought us 4300 new laws. After no smoking in your own car will, I guess, come limitations on how much smell you can make in your own bog, what time you have to go to bed and how you must vote at the next election.
Oh dear, now you'll suffer the rath of [Nighthawk777] - who'll demand attributed and peer-reviewed data !!! ...

But, of course you're correct - and I'd recommend that everyone read the 'blog' by "Leg Iron" - he has views on this that 'tickle me' ...

underdogs bite upwards
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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:37
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I get it that liberty is an important part of our society and I understand that people have their own convictions and beliefs, but most people do not have first hand experience of the damage smoking does. I've seen families shredded by lung cancer and end-stage COPD.

Smoking does affect the health of people other than smokers themselves and I don't think it's acceptable to affect the lives of other people who choose not to smoke. I also think that it's terrible that pregnant women smoke and parents smoke around their children.

It may be a choice for adults but is it fair on the kids when they don't have a choice?
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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:40
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And to quote a famous yellow man who drinks duff beer, "won't somebody please think of the children" "doh"!
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 20:57
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another quote ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbieo View Post
....... It may be a choice for adults but is it fair on the kids when they don't have a choice ?
Adults should - as you say - have the right to choose ...

But, as I wrote earlier, it is NOT acceptable (to me) for an adult to damage or impact another by their chosen actions - and that would include pregnant women smoking, as it does seem to affect the embroyo and result in smaller \ weaker babies - for me, this constitutes forcing 1st. hand smoking on someone else, so it's a big NO-NO ...

Now, as to "2nd. hand smoking" - I can find no convincing evidence that there is any such thing - lots of assertion, lots of estimates, lots of inferences, no actual data ...

I'm personally against smoking, but I cannot see that smoking in the vicinity of or in the same room as children (I'm not talking about blowing smoke into a baby's face because it's fun when they squeal - as I recently read about) poses any health risk whatsoever ! ...

The following isn't 100% germane, but it speaks to my general principles :-

" They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " - Benjamin Franklin

" I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. " - Voltaire

Last edited by J. Derek Riddell; 24th March 2010 at 21:13.
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 21:09
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A total ban in cars gets my vote..... awful habit and apart from the dangers of second hand smoke, smoking itself whilst driving most be more dangerous than driving while talking on a mobile phone.....

I think a ban is all you can do as you see that many numpties smoking with a car full of kids on the school run.
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 21:16
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But where do we stop?

What about banning all food with (say) more than 40% fat for all children below 16? What about the risk of being in the car in the first place?
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post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 21:17
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For as long as the government has an income from the tax levied on tobacco, should they then stipulate when tobacco is used?

And that is why I am in favour of a complete ban on tobacco products - the general health of the population will improve, the burden on the NHS will reduce and no longer will our streets be covered in tab buts from smokers who are too lazy and ignorant to dispose of their rubbish.

I meet many people with end stage COPD and terminal Lung CA and the one thing they all say is 'I wish I never started smoking'.

(and here comes JDR!!!)
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post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 21:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R555 View Post
A total ban in cars gets my vote ... awful habit and apart from the dangers of second hand smoke, smoking itself whilst driving most be more dangerous than driving while talking on a mobile phone ... I think a ban is all you can do as you see that many numpties smoking with a car full of kids on the school run.
Your opinion(s) - to which you are well entitled ! ...

Driving while smoking - like holding a mobile, reading a newspaper, using an electric razor (I've seen all of these !) is a safety issue - only one hand free ? - you're not in proper control of the vehicle (whether you have passengers or not) ! ...

Smoking while parked ? - passengers smoking ? - why not ? - personally, I don't believe that "passive smoking" exists ! - yes, smelly and (to me) rather horrible - but a BAN for 'bogus' health reasons ? - I think not ...

There are existing laws about being in proper control of your vehicle - the politicians and police should enforce these (and catch only the guilty) - rather than imposing ever more draconian regulations, that are designed to punish \ criminalise everyone, so that the guilty minority are automatically included with the innocent majority ...

Last edited by J. Derek Riddell; 24th March 2010 at 21:25. Reason: more stuff ..
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post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 21:24
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Didnt Roy Castle die from passive smoking, after playing in various smoke filled clubs all of his life.....
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post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 21:34
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The people who believe smoking / passive smoking is a bogus health concern are those who still believe the world is flat, the Earth is at the centre of the universe and Sunderland will ever win the Premiership!!!
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post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 24th March 2010, 21:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R555 View Post
Didn't Roy Castle die from passive smoking, after playing in various smoke filled clubs all of his life.....
I quote :-

" Mr Castle had never smoked, but said he contracted his illness after years of playing in smoky jazz clubs early in his career. He said in a documentary about his disease: ' Whilst playing the trumpet in smoky rooms I inhaled great gulps of air - you have to fill your lungs.' " ...

This isn't proof - it's a corollary - I could equally well point out that my Grandfather from N.I. smoked the strongest available pipe tobacco, stinking roll-ups, and 'Capstan Full Strength' all his life, only to "die of the drink" at 92 years old - and say that was proof that smoking prolonged your life ! ...

Anyway, my whole point is that adults should be free to choose their behaviour - society at large (including governments) are free to say that this or that is good or bad - but at the end of the day, individual liberty should be paramount (albeit not to harm or hinder others) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by para999 View Post
The people who believe smoking / passive smoking is a bogus health concern are those who still believe the world is flat, the Earth is at the centre of the universe and Sunderland will ever win the Premiership!!!
Smoking is undeniably harmful to some - but it's a personal choice - going parachuting or paragliding is vastly more dangerous %-wise, yet that isn't (yet) banned ! ...

Passive smoking - for me - IS a completely bogus affliction ...

p.s. - flat world \ earth-centric universe I can go along with - but, Sunderland ! ...

Last edited by J. Derek Riddell; 24th March 2010 at 21:41.
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