**** your legal aid.

[Jpetrie]

Originally Posted by FWH

Thank you, it is always nice to know that one's moderating is appreciated.



I think it is clear that he had not read your post correctly, which he has now also stated.

Regardless, an argumentative post is fine, an insulting post is not.
Argue the point, do not attack the person.

Seeing as you now have in total 4 friendly reminders and a further 4 infractions (mostly for being impolite, using bad language etc), I would have expected that you had understood our Forum Rules by now.

Actually I have 3 infractions

[FWH]

Originally Posted by Jpetrie

Actually I have 3 infractions

True, you have three current infractions, I was counting all the infractions you have received in total, which are four. Sorry if this was unclear.

Each infraction has a "time limit" at which time the "points" no longer count, this really only makes a difference if there are automatic bans at a certain number of points etc, which is not something we operate currently.

[civicnewbie]

Originally Posted by FWH

Thank you, it is always nice to know that one's moderating is appreciated.



I think it is clear that he had not read your post correctly, which he has now also stated.

Regardless, an argumentative post is fine, an insulting post is not.
Argue the point, do not attack the person.

Seeing as you now have in total 4 friendly reminders and a further 4 infractions (mostly for being impolite, using bad language etc), I would have expected that you had understood our Forum Rules by now.

Seems fair enough

[para999]

Originally Posted by Jpetrie

Actually there is, it was just less to type if I left it out.

I mentioned briefly that I'd damaged my leg. Well I had literally just done it prior to walking to my car. It was dark, I'd tripped over a tent rope, and landed rather badly with my ankle going one way and my knee going another.

It was a long and painful walk to my car (seriously I cannot describe how painful it actually was). This explains why I didn't just grab my money and go.

I'd like to point out that I asked for medical attention several times and nothing was ever done. It was clear I'd done something serious as I was barely able to walk. Surely I could make a complaint and get the officers in trouble for this?

All rather strange, you never mentioned your 'leg injury' in your original 'drink driving' thread and your first post on this thread you state 'around the time'.

If the reason you were sitting in your car was because you had fallen over and ruptured your ACL that would have been the first thing I would have mentioned.

Regarding refusal of medication attention, the PC would have had to get an ambulance for you because of the very nature of the injury, you would not have been able to weight bear, never mind mobilise, especially if, as you state you had an evulsion fracture caused by the ACL.

If you managed to walk to the Police car and then walk into the Station, stand in front of the Duty Officer to be read your arrest cause, and then walk to the room to provide a evidential breathe sample, then to be charged, then to the cells, all on your 'injury'!

Really?

[civicnewbie]

Originally Posted by Jpetrie

So here's my current quandary: Drink driving

I pleaded "not guilty" which has now gone to trial - scheduled for the 13th November.

Unfortunately around the same time of the arrest, I was in an accident subsequently tearing my AC ligament, took a large chunk of bone. I am currently on ESA (temporarily, of course) - this however doesn't give you much to live on, and I'm struggling with bills. Although, should be able to work soon.

I have however just been refused legal aid. I was refused not on the basis that I can't afford a solicitor - which I can't, but the fact I was so close to the legal drink-drive limit, and that I was not actually driving the car.

So basically I'm being refused legal aid, because there's a good chance I'm not guilty. Which makes sense, right? Lets punish the working, law abiding citizens by refusing them help when they need it, because there's a good chance they're innocent? In turn provide legal care to the 'real' criminals - which will enable them to achieve reduced sentences so they can once again re-offend.

So I feel pretty ****** over, having to take a loan to pay a solicitor, to save a license I might lose, rendering me unable to work to pay for aforementioned lawyer, for a car that I wasn't driving nor did I have the keys for.

That's what I call a ******* good justice system.

Is this what you have been told as the reason you have been refused legal aid? Seems they are pre-judging the outcome and declaring your innocence, also being close to the dd limit would not preclude you from legal aid if you qualify.

[Jpetrie]

Originally Posted by para999

All rather strange, you never mentioned your 'leg injury' in your original 'drink driving' thread and your first post on this thread you state 'around the time'.

If the reason you were sitting in your car was because you had fallen over and ruptured your ACL that would have been the first thing I would have mentioned.

Regarding refusal of medication attention, the PC would have had to get an ambulance for you because of the very nature of the injury, you would not have been able to weight bear, never mind mobilise, especially if, as you state you had an evulsion fracture caused by the ACL.

If you managed to walk to the Police car and then walk into the Station, stand in front of the Duty Officer to be read your arrest cause, and then walk to the room to provide a evidential breathe sample, then to be charged, then to the cells, all on your 'injury'!

Really?

I have nothing to prove to you, can you not see that? I don't need to mention every detail to you, because you aren't my magistrate, you know what I tell you, because that's all that I feel is relevant. I only told you about my leg because you questioned me, so I felt I should elaborate, I didn't think the fact that I sat in my car would come into question. Why? Because you aren't detectives, and it wasn't the point of my post.

We're here to discuss my refusal of legal aid, not the plausibility of my story. Everything I have written to you is truth, the original just left details out at my discretion. Legal aid was refused because of my charge, not because of my injury. I came here to rant and sought after some advice, not invite an interrogation. If you're looking for a conspiracy, look elsewhere, this isn't one.

Yes, I managed to walk on my leg. I twisted my ankle 90 degrees to the right. Therefore making it possible to move my leg without bending my knee (try it if you don't believe me. I'm more than happy to draw you a diagram if necessary), it was clear I was in extreme pain. My leg collapsed several times taking me to the floor. This was witnessed by both PC's. I repeatedly asked for medical attention, which I never received.

If you feel you'd like to discuss this subject further, I'm more than happy to. However, stop treating me like an interrogation subject and change your tone.

[Noxia]

Water boarding next.

[civicnewbie]

Originally Posted by Noxia

Water boarding next.

[para999]

Just one last thing - your ACL is in your knee, not your ankle!!!!

[Jpetrie]

Originally Posted by para999

Just one last thing - your ACL is in your knee, not your ankle!!!!

- Was that really necessary?

Don't imply that I'm stupid because you're incapable of comprehending a basic sentence..

Yes, I managed to walk on my leg. I twisted my ankle 90 degrees to the right. Therefore making it possible to move my leg without bending my knee

"Without bending my knee"

This is the second time you've made yourself look stupid because you have failed to properly read my post.

[civicnewbie]

Originally Posted by para999

Just one last thing - your ACL is in your knee, not your ankle!!!!

An injury to the anterior cruciate ligament can be a debilitating musculoskeletal injury to the knee, seen most often in athletes. Non-contact tears and ruptures are the most common causes of ACL injury. The anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) is an important ligament for proper movement. ACL injury more commonly causes knee instability than does injury to other knee ligaments. injuries of the ACL range from mild such as small tears to severe when the ligament is completely torn. There are many ways the ACL can be torn; the most prevalent is when the knee is bent too much toward the back and when it goes too far to the side.Tears in the anterior cruciate ligament often take place when the knee receives a direct impact from the front of the thigh while the leg is in a stable position, for example a standing football player is tackled sideways when his feet are firmly planted. Torn ACLs are most often related to high impact sports or when the knee is forced to make sharp changes in movement and during abrupt stops from high speed. These types of injuries are prevalent in alpine skiing,[2] American football, Australian rules football, basketball, rugby, martial arts, artistic gymnastics, Ultimate (sport), and association football. Research has shown that women involved in sports are more likely to have ACL injuries than men. ACL tears can also happen in older individuals through slips and falls and are seen mostly in people over 40 due to wear and tear of the ligaments. An ACL tear can diagnosed by a popping sound heard after impact, swelling after a couple of hours, severe pain when bending the knee, and when the knee buckles or locks during movement or gives way while standing still with weight on the affected knee.

This what happened?

[para999]

Yep, good write up and explanation!

Now try walking on it together with an avulsion fracture!

[para999]

Originally Posted by Jpetrie

- Was that really necessary?

Don't imply that I'm stupid because you're incapable of comprehending a basic sentence..



"Without bending my knee"

This is the second time you've made yourself look stupid because you have failed to properly read my post.

So you managed to keep your leg perfectly straight whilst you got in and out of the back of the Police car and when you wandered around the Station and put your full weight on it?

You most have a very very high pain threshold!

(and I'm not stupid!)

[Jpetrie]

Originally Posted by para999

Yep, good write up and explanation!

Now try walking on it together with an avulsion fracture!

Okay, I'll also try walking without legs, but how would that be relevant to our current conversation?

Originally Posted by para999

So you managed to keep your leg perfectly straight whilst you got in and out of the back of the Police car and when you wandered around the Station?

No that severely ****ing hurt. My injury still made it possible to bend my leg, you know that right? It just caused a lot of pain.

[civicnewbie]

Originally Posted by para999

Yep, good write up and explanation!

Now try walking on it together with an avulsion fracture!

Para, I am guessing you are some sort of medical person.
So would twisting the ankle result in the ACL damage

Not wishing to cause problems but from what I read a torn ACL would be very difficult to walk on.

I know it is not impossible but given the flak the police take nowadays I find it weird that someone who falls to the floor in obvious agony, twice, would be ignored medical assistance, as I said not impossible but highly improbable.
Just my opinion of course.

[Jpetrie]

Originally Posted by civicnewbie

Para, I am guessing you are some sort of medical person.
So would twisting the ankle result in the ACL damage

Not wishing to cause problems but from what I read a torn ACL would be very difficult to walk on.

I know it is not impossible but given the flak the police take nowadays I find it weird that someone who falls to the floor in obvious agony, twice, would be ignored medical assistance, as I said not impossible but highly improbable.
Just my opinion of course.

My ankle wasn't damaged. I purposely turn my ankle to 90 degrees which made my leg possible to walk on.

You're right, it was extremely difficult to walk on.

As I got out of my car and into his the PC actually had to catch me as I literally collapsed on him.

Maybe they just didn't believe me? I don't know.

[civicnewbie]

Originally Posted by Jpetrie

My ankle wasn't damaged. I purposely turn my ankle to 90 degrees which made my leg possible to walk on.

You're right, it was extremely difficult to walk on.

As I got out of my car and into his the PC actually had to catch me as I literally collapsed on him.

Maybe they just didn't believe me? I don't know.

I see, so it was your knee you damaged and you purposely bent your ankle to make it possible to walk on, I thought you had twisted your ankle 90 degrees and this caused your knee injury, all clear now.

[Jpetrie]

Originally Posted by civicnewbie

I see, so it was your knee you damaged and you purposely bent your ankle to make it possible to walk on, I thought you had twisted your ankle 90 degrees and this caused your knee injury, all clear now.

No. Stand up turn you foot to the right, now walk. Notice how you're doing this whilst maintaining minimum movement in the knee area?

Correct my ankle was not injured.

[para999]

Originally Posted by civicnewbie

Para, I am guessing you are some sort of medical person.
So would twisting the ankle result in the ACL damage

Not wishing to cause problems but from what I read a torn ACL would be very difficult to walk on.

I know it is not impossible but given the flak the police take nowadays I find it weird that someone who falls to the floor in obvious agony, twice, would be ignored medical assistance, as I said not impossible but highly improbable.
Just my opinion of course.

Can I give a typical answer - it depends!!!!!

The vast majority of ACL injuries are caused by torsional shearing due to excessive twisting of the knee. The ligaments and tendons of the ankle are a lot weaker than the ACL and because of that when there is excessive twisting motion applied to the ankle it is these that get damaged.

If there is pre-existing damage to the knee joint from either trauma or medical deterioration then it is possible.

But to weight bear and mobilise with a ruptured ACL complicated by an avulsion fracture is nigh on impossible, turning your ankle out 90% laterally would also cause a torsional loading on the knee joint, try standing up and doing it and you will feel both the knee and hip twist.

A surgical repair together with a long rehab is needed!

[civicnewbie]

Originally Posted by Jpetrie

No. Stand up turn you foot to the right, now walk. Notice how you're doing this whilst maintaining minimum movement in the knee area?

Correct my ankle was not injured.

You say "No" so you didn't damage your knee?
You said you turned your ankle 90 degrees, I confirmed this in the post, now you start getting sarcy.
I was re -iterating what you originally said so people could understand what it is you are trying to get across, not very clear.

Para seems to think the injury would make it nigh on impossible to walk on, maybe it was not as bad as made out, again just an observation not a fact.