Must have hurt......in more ways than one!

Trekker308 · 30th August 2006, 14:09

The A887 between Invermoriston and the Skye Bridge is a great road on any count - beautiful mountain scenery, good road surface and at one stage it goes through a wonderful series of swooping bends by the side of Loch Cluanie that can be negotiated at 'almost legal' speeds in the Civ in a mixture of 4th, 5th and 6th gears.

I was giving it some reasonably serious stick along the stretch when we exited a tight-ish bend and saw a group of three blokes looking down the bank down into the Loch with assorted personal belongings by the roadside.

We stopped and asked if they were OK, and one of them said "yes, we're fine but my car isn't" - and there, perched against a rock on its side after having obviously rolled a few times was a silver Audi TT with not a body panel unscathed. I commiserated and asked how long he had owned the car - "I picked it up at 9 o'clock this morning!"

Ouch!!

Newboy · 30th August 2006, 14:46

I presume that would be the new version TT !? I thought that was supposed to have improved road handling !! Guessing but must have been absolutely gunning it !! I think, with a new car, I'd be extra cautious !

SUPERTEACH · 30th August 2006, 14:55

From an AA report

Two roads - the A887 from Invermoriston at Loch Ness to the A87, and the A898 at the Erskine Bridge - were identified as Scotland's safest.

I agree, a new car, take more care
Mechanical failure -OK a new Audi but....
Puncture
Animal in the road
Other road user
Rather a silly driver-
take your pick

basegreen · 30th August 2006, 14:58

At the risk of sounding like an "outdo-er" something similar happened round here.

Where I live is a pretty weird place of high earners, and someone had taken delivery of a brand spanking new Aston Martin DB9.

On taking it for their first spin (I believe it got delivered directly to the house, but not 100% sure of this), the left the estate via the back route, which a day before had been changed to a strange teardrop chicane.

Gunning it towards the roundabout, he must have presumed the road was as it had been for the last couple of years and promptly stacked it straight into the chicane walls, flipping the db9, it landing on its roof.

Darwin in action.

jcr944 · 30th August 2006, 15:32

Yes that must have hurt!...I drove that road about a year ago on my way to the Isle of Harris via Skye and it is a great road for driving enjoyment...but again push it too hard, dependent on conditions you could easily lose it

Reminds me of a situation many years ago when one of the rent-a-car companies had a weekend deal for a 944 Porsche...myself and a colleague/friend were at Aberdeen airport trying to get down to London. He suggested we hire the thing and spend the weekend at Aviemore, I declined and booked myself down to Heathrow. About 4 hours later I boarded and sat down only to see my friend get on as well....he looked at me and said 'don't even ask"....he put about 27 miles on a new 944 before rolling it!...AA Relay truck brought him and the car back to the airport...lucky for him he took all the additional insurance.

Looking at SUPERTEACH's picklist...rather a silly driver!

Trekker308 · 30th August 2006, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUPERTEACH

From an AA report

Two roads - the A887 from Invermoriston at Loch Ness to the A87, and the A898 at the Erskine Bridge - were identified as Scotland's safest.

I agree, a new car, take more care
Mechanical failure -OK a new Audi but....
Puncture
Animal in the road
Other road user
Rather a silly driver-
take your pick

My first question to him was "A deer?" "No, just me...." was the response......

...and to be fair, the accident happened on what is strictly speaking the A87 (same road but West of the junction with the A87), but I'm amazed because it's a cracking road and although the ride was a little harsh (product of Pilot Sports?) the Civic was spot on with handling and roadholding - but there, I wasn't trying to impress anybody, just enjoy myself!

SUPERTEACH · 30th August 2006, 17:19

Cannot argue with that.
Take care.....................

CivPilot · 31st August 2006, 12:56

Didn't think the new TT deliveries had started? If it was a new one then the accident was nothing to do with limited car dynamics, but driver error. The old one was a terrible handling car, hence the update with revised rear track and boot spoiler.

If the car suffered no puncture breakage before going off the road then it would have been purely down to the driver running out of talent, not knowing the road or car is no excuse for not showing respect to the conditions at any time. If it was the old shaped TT then maybe the car could have caught him unaware, as the chassis is pretty flawed with dead steering and very nasty lift off oversteer if you get brain fade (Driven one and you wouldnt want to push on hard, nasty feeling in corners at times) . At the end of the day even Lift off oversteer is something most reasonably skilled drivers will never see.

The new TT is meant to border on understeer first so deffo driver error/lack of talent/showing off his (lack of) skill.

At least the driver was honest... "No, just me"

And basegreen is right, sometimes "Darwin works in mysterious ways"

Trekker308 · 31st August 2006, 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by CivPilot

If it was the old shaped TT then maybe the car could have caught him unaware, as the chassis is pretty flawed with dead steering and very nasty lift off oversteer if you get brain fade (Driven one and you wouldnt want to push on hard, nasty feeling in corners at times) . At the end of the day even Lift off oversteer is something most reasonably skilled drivers will never see.

The new TT is meant to border on understeer first so deffo driver error/lack of talent/showing off his (lack of) skill.

At least the driver was honest... "No, just me"

And basegreen is right, sometimes "Darwin works in mysterious ways"

I didn't want to question the guy greatly because he was feeling pretty miserable as it was (!), but I gathered that the sharp transfer to oversteer on lift-off when he met a bend that was a bit sharper than he anticipated 'got him'.

For a person that feels that the handling of a car is paramount 'cos I do most of my driving on twisty country roads (hence i-Vtec and not +150kg of an admittedly wonderful diesel powerplant for better balance 'under pressure') I was staggered that a TT was that vicious in its response to throttle change! I've been massively spoilt by my ex-Alfa 156 which would not let you down under any circumstances that I have ever met - and I am an, errmm, 'enthusiastic' windy road driver!

All I can think is that he hadn't done his homework and was thus unaware of the TT's prediliction for lift-off oversteer - but I did feel sorry for him though......

CivPilot · 31st August 2006, 14:48

Having driven one I can vouch.... they can be nasty if your not paying attention. the fact that Audi updated the chassis (mandatory in europe, optional over here?) to wipe out much of the rear end transfer is evidence enough if you havent driven one.

TTDegs · 31st August 2006, 16:44

OK, I do feel fairly qualified to post an answer to this one

On the very first TTs, lift off oversteer was a problem.

ALL of them were recalled - although as stated, in the UK some of the fixes (such as the spoiler) were optional.

Cars from (roughly) 2000 onwards also got traction control as standard (Audi version of Honda VSA), which was part of the recall.

There are likely to be no more than (literally) a handful of cars out there which weren't modified - although they do exist.

The results of these changes were a car which was a lot 'safer' but ultimately a bit more boring to drive.

You can provoke lift off oversteer - but only if you're trying very hard to do so.

What is a lot more likely is understeer, but can be a bit of a PITA to be honest - especially if you boot it round a bend and the VSA kicks in, reducing the power, just as you get the understeer...

Having thrashed one or 2 TTs in various guises, including some putting out a rather healthy number of horses, around Castle Combe, I've got to say that it's quite difficult to upset a TT to the stage where things get scarey.

Do-able, but you've got to be doing something pretty stupid.

Ultimately though, the best traction control / driver aids / most massive brakes in the world aren't going to help you if you approach that corner 20mph too fast with your brain turned off...

CivPilot · 1st September 2006, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTDegs

Ultimately though, the best traction control / driver aids / most massive brakes in the world aren't going to help you if you approach that corner 20mph too fast with your brain turned off...

Very well said

Trekker308 · 1st September 2006, 11:14

As a postscript, I've just spoken to my mate who was with me when I stopped at the accident, and he has just bumped into the unfortunate driver of the TT again - there's a bit of a fuss going on because although 3 of the 4 tyre pressures were found to be about right, the offside rear was 1.3bar ........ Whoops!

TTDegs · 1st September 2006, 14:08

that probably wouldn't have helped much!

basegreen · 1st September 2006, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTDegs

that probably wouldn't have helped much!

As I said, my tyres were ridiculously overpumped after I took delivery.

TTDegs · 1st September 2006, 17:01

check out the first video 'Jelly Wobbles' on the redh site!

30th August 2006, 14:09	#1 (permalink)
Trekker308 ..with Superchips please! Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 29th July 2006 Location: Ringwood Posts: 337 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Must have hurt......in more ways than one! The A887 between Invermoriston and the Skye Bridge is a great road on any count - beautiful mountain scenery, good road surface and at one stage it goes through a wonderful series of swooping bends by the side of Loch Cluanie that can be negotiated at 'almost legal' speeds in the Civ in a mixture of 4th, 5th and 6th gears. I was giving it some reasonably serious stick along the stretch when we exited a tight-ish bend and saw a group of three blokes looking down the bank down into the Loch with assorted personal belongings by the roadside. We stopped and asked if they were OK, and one of them said "yes, we're fine but my car isn't" - and there, perched against a rock on its side after having obviously rolled a few times was a silver Audi TT with not a body panel unscathed. I commiserated and asked how long he had owned the car - "I picked it up at 9 o'clock this morning!" Ouch!!

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This thread is about: Must have hurt......in more ways than one!, it's in Any non Civic chat here please! at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; The A887 between Invermoriston and the Skye Bridge is a great road on any count - beautiful mountain scenery, good road surface and at one ...

30th August 2006, 14:46	#2 (permalink)
Newboy Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 27th July 2006 Location: NE Surrey, UK Posts: 277 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I presume that would be the new version TT !? I thought that was supposed to have improved road handling !! Guessing but must have been absolutely gunning it !! I think, with a new car, I'd be extra cautious !

30th August 2006, 14:55	#3 (permalink)
SUPERTEACH Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 17th August 2006 Location: Cheshire, England Posts: 629 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	From an AA report Two roads - the A887 from Invermoriston at Loch Ness to the A87, and the A898 at the Erskine Bridge - were identified as Scotland's safest. I agree, a new car, take more care Mechanical failure -OK a new Audi but.... Puncture Animal in the road Other road user Rather a silly driver- take your pick

30th August 2006, 14:58	#4 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,865 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	At the risk of sounding like an "outdo-er" something similar happened round here. Where I live is a pretty weird place of high earners, and someone had taken delivery of a brand spanking new Aston Martin DB9. On taking it for their first spin (I believe it got delivered directly to the house, but not 100% sure of this), the left the estate via the back route, which a day before had been changed to a strange teardrop chicane. Gunning it towards the roundabout, he must have presumed the road was as it had been for the last couple of years and promptly stacked it straight into the chicane walls, flipping the db9, it landing on its roof. Darwin in action.

30th August 2006, 15:32	#5 (permalink)
jcr944 Valve Cap Join Date: 27th August 2006 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes that must have hurt!...I drove that road about a year ago on my way to the Isle of Harris via Skye and it is a great road for driving enjoyment...but again push it too hard, dependent on conditions you could easily lose it Reminds me of a situation many years ago when one of the rent-a-car companies had a weekend deal for a 944 Porsche...myself and a colleague/friend were at Aberdeen airport trying to get down to London. He suggested we hire the thing and spend the weekend at Aviemore, I declined and booked myself down to Heathrow. About 4 hours later I boarded and sat down only to see my friend get on as well....he looked at me and said 'don't even ask"....he put about 27 miles on a new 944 before rolling it!...AA Relay truck brought him and the car back to the airport...lucky for him he took all the additional insurance. Looking at SUPERTEACH's picklist...rather a silly driver!

30th August 2006, 17:19	#7 (permalink)
SUPERTEACH Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 17th August 2006 Location: Cheshire, England Posts: 629 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Cannot argue with that. Take care.....................

31st August 2006, 12:56	#8 (permalink)
CivPilot 您看了 Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 1st May 2006 Location: Surrey/Hants Posts: 441 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Didn't think the new TT deliveries had started? If it was a new one then the accident was nothing to do with limited car dynamics, but driver error. The old one was a terrible handling car, hence the update with revised rear track and boot spoiler. If the car suffered no puncture breakage before going off the road then it would have been purely down to the driver running out of talent, not knowing the road or car is no excuse for not showing respect to the conditions at any time. If it was the old shaped TT then maybe the car could have caught him unaware, as the chassis is pretty flawed with dead steering and very nasty lift off oversteer if you get brain fade (Driven one and you wouldnt want to push on hard, nasty feeling in corners at times) . At the end of the day even Lift off oversteer is something most reasonably skilled drivers will never see. The new TT is meant to border on understeer first so deffo driver error/lack of talent/showing off his (lack of) skill. At least the driver was honest... "No, just me" And basegreen is right, sometimes "Darwin works in mysterious ways"

31st August 2006, 14:48	#10 (permalink)
CivPilot 您看了 Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 1st May 2006 Location: Surrey/Hants Posts: 441 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Having driven one I can vouch.... they can be nasty if your not paying attention. the fact that Audi updated the chassis (mandatory in europe, optional over here?) to wipe out much of the rear end transfer is evidence enough if you havent driven one.

31st August 2006, 16:44	#11 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, I do feel fairly qualified to post an answer to this one On the very first TTs, lift off oversteer was a problem. ALL of them were recalled - although as stated, in the UK some of the fixes (such as the spoiler) were optional. Cars from (roughly) 2000 onwards also got traction control as standard (Audi version of Honda VSA), which was part of the recall. There are likely to be no more than (literally) a handful of cars out there which weren't modified - although they do exist. The results of these changes were a car which was a lot 'safer' but ultimately a bit more boring to drive. You can provoke lift off oversteer - but only if you're trying very hard to do so. What is a lot more likely is understeer, but can be a bit of a PITA to be honest - especially if you boot it round a bend and the VSA kicks in, reducing the power, just as you get the understeer... Having thrashed one or 2 TTs in various guises, including some putting out a rather healthy number of horses, around Castle Combe, I've got to say that it's quite difficult to upset a TT to the stage where things get scarey. Do-able, but you've got to be doing something pretty stupid. Ultimately though, the best traction control / driver aids / most massive brakes in the world aren't going to help you if you approach that corner 20mph too fast with your brain turned off...

1st September 2006, 11:14	#13 (permalink)
Trekker308 ..with Superchips please! Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 29th July 2006 Location: Ringwood Posts: 337 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As a postscript, I've just spoken to my mate who was with me when I stopped at the accident, and he has just bumped into the unfortunate driver of the TT again - there's a bit of a fuss going on because although 3 of the 4 tyre pressures were found to be about right, the offside rear was 1.3bar ........ Whoops!

1st September 2006, 14:08	#14 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	that probably wouldn't have helped much!

1st September 2006, 17:01	#16 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	check out the first video 'Jelly Wobbles' on the redh site!