New 1.8 i-VTEC SE, dead already.
Well, after waiting what seemed like an age for my new Civic 1.8 2006 SE model, my pick-up day arrived (1st March).
After all the paperwork and the like, I got out of the dealership, and headed back home to show off my brand new car.
Except no. On the way home, heading down a fast dual-carriageway, I lost all power. The car went into limp mode, and left me only able to do around 30mph. I somehow managed to hit the hazards and pull off the busy road in time before anyone rear-ended me. What’s worse, is that I had just (15 seconds before) joined the road at around 65mph from a slip road. If this had occurred then, I would have almost certainly have been involved in a serious collision.
I pulled over and wasn’t really sure what to do next. I set off again, in the hope that it was okay again, and the engine warning light came on. I managed to limp home (maybe 1 mile to my office) and pull up. Angry and frustrated, I tried to leave the car to go and call my dealership. Except NO. Something bizarre with the electric door locking system had occured and I was stuck in the car. Took around 5-10mins of playing with the remote key and restarting the engine etc to get out of the vehicle.
Now, the dealer has my car. I have a test-drive car for a few more days, and a loan vehicle coming from Honda. I have no idea what went wrong, the dealer’s diagnostic kit is not working, and so Honda are meant to be sending an engineer from Slough to take a look at my car and their kit. They even tried to palm me off with a hire car (Vauxhall Astra of all things), which I quickly put a stop to.
What a nightmare. I bought the car because of the much publicised reliability and customer service levels. I’m now stuck driving a dirty demo car, and have no idea when my new car will be back in my hands.
March 6th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
What a disappointment eh? Hope to hear better news from you soon and that Honda have given this priority to regain your confidence.
March 6th, 2006 at 6:19 pm
As a Sales Exec in a Honda main dealer and having had no similar instances of this problem here, I would be interested to hear the outcome of this problem and what they think caused it. Please don’t lose faith in the product, although I do sympathise with you, I am sure this is an isolated incident.
March 6th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Not the sort of thing a potential custumer is thrilled about reading … lets hope it’s an isolated incedent? might hold off before ordering one.
March 6th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
I am totally shocked and dumbfounded with your experience with the New Civic, I have owned 5 Honda civic over that last 19 years and NEVER NEVER has a such terminal failure of such a nature.
By symptoms you have stated it looks like a serious flaw with the electrical system or the ECU harness not plugged in correctly or a partly dead ECU..I won’t think there would be any issues in the cylinder/piston department .They are bullet proof.
To remove doubts in anyone how reliable and dependable Honda engine are
Have a look at this video, http://nilson.f2o.org/civicdavdodu2.wmv
These chaps have ILTERRALY attempted to destroy the civic 1.5 16v
They have used water(h2o) for lubrication and stuffed the exhaust port with bananas!!!
Every after the engine has seized it still fires up ..i rest my case.
HONDA POWER ,pure !!!!
March 7th, 2006 at 7:37 am
It’s no consolation to ‘basegreen’ and his experience of the new Civic, but my wife and I’ve run Hondas since 1991 with NO breakdowns whatsoever - that’s why we stick to Honda - but the engines in particular have always been fabulous. Currently I drive a 99 Civic VTi coupe which, whilst not quite a Type R, has a 160BHP engine that will scream its head off all day long (comes into its own at 6000!) with no problems whatsoever - even though it has nearly 100k on the clock. Look forward hearing what Honda have done to put things right for ‘basegreen’.
March 7th, 2006 at 8:01 am
At present, they’re offering me £500 of accessories to be sorted out at the dealer. I have a 2006 civic as a replacement car until mine is sorted. Whilst this seems fairly good - I think considering the danger this fault put me in, they could do a bit more. We’ll see. Anyone (particularly the dealers reading this) think I should ask for a bit more?
At present, I’m not impressed. I know the Honda engines are good, but this looks like a Renault-esque electrical/ECU fault. I’ll always be tainted by this experience, I think.
March 7th, 2006 at 8:10 am
As a side note - I keep hearing different things. The engineer at my dealer says this is the second one they’ve heard about doing this. Yet, when I spoke to Honda UK, they are now saying that there’s only mine. Considering this happened last Wednesday, and they still haven’t run the ECU diagnostic, it’s pretty poor.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:25 am
Wow, thats a bad story… I had a Vauxhall Omega that did that, but would cut out completely at random, wouldn’t even do 30mph. If you left it for 10 or 20 mins the electrics would come back to life again, not alot of help when you get beached on a roundabout. Because Vauxhall dealers couldn’t replicate it they really struggled to help and couldn’t offer a replacement vehicle. Glad to hear that Honda are sending someone to have a look, hope it gets fixed for you.
March 7th, 2006 at 11:44 am
If it happens again, I’d just reject the car under SOGA.
March 7th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
basegreen, I am a Honda dealer. I think that if the Honda dealer is offering you £500 of accessories, they are being more than fair, as a gesture of good will, especially as you are in a like for like car in the interim period. Some other manufacturers would point you in the direction of the nearest bus stop, and blame someone else for it all whilst washing their hands and promising to be in touch. Obviously, if it drags on you should suggest the possibility of a replacement vehicle to restore your faith.
March 7th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
I don’t see how the previous poster can say they are being more than fair when the fault could have potentially put your life in danger!
March 7th, 2006 at 2:02 pm
Just wanted to say a public thankyou to Sarah at Honda, who called me today from seeing this message. I won’t discuss compensation any further as it is unfair on Honda at this point as they have not agreed anything definite yet.
And yes, £500 of accessories (cost price to Honda obviously far less)is not amazing by any stretch of the imagination.
I would like to clarify this came from Honda UK, not the dealer. The dealer have been a credit to Honda during this situation.
March 7th, 2006 at 2:20 pm
Bit dramatic. Lets remember that cars are cars and will always have the potential for problems even from day one. It is indeed unfortunate that this happened on a high speed road when it could have happened at 10 mph in your local car park and been much less dramatic. Honda to my knowledge and experience will move heaven and earth to put this right ASAP as they hate to have problems with their products. All I am saying is that I think that £500 is reasonable when some manufacturers would offer nothing at all, and it is meant as a gesture of good will. Needless to say, had it actually caused a massive collision and a lifetime of trauma and suffering then the compensation would have been measured accordingly. As it is, £500 for the inconvenience of a breakdown is, in my opinion, reasonable.
March 7th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Honda’s attitude is generally more caring than most as they are perfectionists and clearly care about their reputation. The real test with an organisation is what they do when something goes wrong. The larger players - Tesco, Renault, whoever, generally don’t give a damn. Hopefully, Honda will regain basegreen’s confidence by their obsessive attention to detail - which is what makes us trust and enjoy the cars they produce.
March 7th, 2006 at 2:59 pm
Spoken like a true car salesman. To be honest, I’d say 500 would be fair if I’d had the car a while, and it had this issue in the first year sometime.
But I’d just spend over £14K on a brand new car, that I managed to drive about 7 miles before it broke in a dangerous manner.
I DO trust that Honda will put this right, and I am not saying £500 of accessories is unreasonable, I just think they could do better considering my situation. And they might well do - as I say, they’re taking this more seriously now and that’s to their credit.
They’re sending me a replacement car (albeit a diesel) tomorrow.
March 7th, 2006 at 3:17 pm
Ian - this is exactly it. From this point, treating me well, being professional and keeping the attention to detail will leave me with an even better image of Honda than I had before I bought a car from them. Messing me about, being evasive etc will only cause me to pass on how poorly I had been treated.
So far, thumbs up! Hopefully it will stay that way. I have faith that it will.
March 7th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
I am sure they will reach a satisfactory conclusion with you, they are as you say far more approachable and caring than most, I hope it is all resolved soon and you can enjoy the car with confidence. In the mean time, enjoy the diesel, in my opinion, the best engine for the car.
March 7th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
I know the diesel is probably better than the 1.8 - I couldn’t justify the extra cost when I will only be doing 10K miles per year.
Do you recommend any accessories from the list, btw?
March 7th, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Very much down to the individual I suppose. I do feel the ambient floor lighting is a bit cheesy for Honda and has met with a mixed response from customers and friends alike. If you enjoy your music however, the base works equipment makes quite a difference. Otherwise, consider what would be most appropriate to your use of the car. The external trim spoilers on the front and rear are also subtle but very tasteful and a nice finishing touch.
March 7th, 2006 at 5:05 pm
I thought the lighting was a bit weird, it’s the the loan car I have. Can definitely live without that one
Is the accessories stuff online anywhere?
What about parking sensors? Figured they’d be useful.
March 7th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Parking sensors are always useful, although I have not seen any fitted and can’t vouch for the looks. Try www.honda-access.com for full listings and pics but, unfortunately, no prices. Should give you loads of ideas though and your dealer can tell you what they can do on the prices and the allowance they will give you by way of compensation.
March 7th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
I personally find parking sensors to be more annoying than they are useful… My experience is not from a Honda though, I have to say.
March 8th, 2006 at 11:42 am
Another update - engineers are looking at the car now. Getting good communications from Honda CS.
March 8th, 2006 at 3:00 pm
The list of faults on the car based on the diagnosis kit which is now working at the dealer is huge it seems.
March 8th, 2006 at 3:15 pm
Oh, and the dealership have said that “noone dare drive it”.
Great.
March 8th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Sounds like your being treated well to me. We all know that problems happen from time to time just much less frequently with Honda’s than most others. Think £500 is quite good. Problem is we’re all following the dreaded American greed culture of gimme gimme cos what if, what if, you might have put my life in danger. What happened to the times when a good sincere apology was all that we asked for
March 8th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Reckon the ‘parking sensors’ @ £475 will be a good idea.
They look great in the Civic brochure.
For all the accessories try http://media.honda.co.uk and have fun building a Civic at the same time!
March 8th, 2006 at 4:55 pm
Yeah, well. If your wife and kids were in a car that died so spectacularly at high speed having 12 miles on the clock, I am sure you’d also feel somewhat differently.
March 8th, 2006 at 5:06 pm
As I say - and to quote a Honda Add - what if. Compensation is to compensate for loss etc and not to punish for some thing that might have happened. Does not even sound like you had a near miss other wise I’m sure you would have included that too. Be happy with your £500 and live for what will happen tomorrow not what might have happened yesterday. Never know you might meet that bus tomorrow, then you might be glad your driving a Honda, some of us have been.
March 8th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
My main issue is not what might have happened (which may or may not have happened) it is regarding being given a FAULTY car, which had a dangerous engine fault from new.
I am still PAYING for my car, it is stuck in the garage, they’re unsure what the problem is at this point (still). I’ve had 2 replacement cars already, and umpteen phone calls trying to get to the bottom of this.
Honda realise this is not a good thing to happen, and so far have been very reasonable in getting this sorted. I am sure they will carry on doing so.
The staff at the dealer will not drive it. They have admitted that they wouldn’t accept the car back after a repair. I have paid VERY good money for a NEW car, not a faulty one with a fix. I haven’t even driven the thing home yet.
So excuse me anger and frustation at this situation, and put yourself in my shoes.
March 8th, 2006 at 8:22 pm
I got a 1.8 ES last week too, no probs what so ever, done over 500 miles todate. Its a great car, no complaints whatsoever. Oh except watch ur head getting in the back, its a bit low
March 8th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
Glad you’re happy. I abolsutely love the car, too. Just want to enjoy one that belongs to me
)
Since there’s probably a few owners reading this — if anyone would like to contact me and set up a bit of a email mailing list, then drop me a line at cambourne @ gmail . com.
March 8th, 2006 at 10:48 pm
On the subject of teething problems with the new Civic…
The crank pulley on my 5 week old Civic 2.2 i-CDTi SE dropped off this evening.
There’s a plastic undertray in the engine compartment that caught it. The belt was still in place! Good job the engine timing is performed by a chain or I would have a dead engine.
Apart from this, I’m very pleased with the car.
Top marks to the complimentary AA cover for towing me to the dealer and dropping me off home within 1.5 hrs of calling the AA.
The AA guy couldn’t believe his eyes when he saw the pulley just lying there.
March 9th, 2006 at 8:10 am
That sounds pretty scary. Do things normally drop off new cars? I’m driving the diesel at the moment, too.
Does yours sound a little “whiney”..? there’s a quite high pitched noise alongside the normal rattle of a diesel.
March 9th, 2006 at 9:57 am
basegreen.
I empathise with you totally and don’t blame you for being angry, Just saying that quite a few comments above are correctly concluding that you’ve done well to get £500 out of Honda - more than most will and your comming accross as ‘that’s not nearly enough’.
And to agree with the others again - go for the reversing sensors rather than any interior illumination, have a new Civic on test this week and only fault so far is can’t parallel park well as can’t judge the distance and that’s from some one who normally parrallel parks an Accord Tourer.
Hope you get your car back soon.
Oh and yeah my Accord Diesel has a whistley whine quite high pitched mainly turbo related I think, that may be what you hear. Good luck.
March 9th, 2006 at 10:28 am
Yes, sounds like the turbo - was just checking that was indeed normal!
As things stand, £500 of accessories is not going to be the answer for me. I will have to reject the car, based on what I am now being told from engineering.
March 9th, 2006 at 1:08 pm
basegreen,
If they won’t change the car, push them for a set of the 18″ storm wheels. Just had a black i-ctdi Sport come in with them on and it looks the absolute business!!!!
March 9th, 2006 at 1:12 pm
As I say, big alloys are not my sort of thing at all. But nice to know they’re looking good ;o)
March 9th, 2006 at 1:34 pm
Just noticed, it has parking sensors aswell! Very subtle and don’t look out of place at all. Just make sure they paint them body colour for best effect if you go down that route.
Hope it gets sorted out to your satisfaction very soon.
March 9th, 2006 at 1:42 pm
Thanks for your concern. I am hoping this can get sorted quickly as I’m about to go on holiday, and would prefer it not to be spoiled by wondering if I have spent money on something I can’t use or don’t trust.
March 9th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
No real progress today again, it’s been over a week.
They’re now saying (at the dealer) that they can’t reproduce it and that the codes are relating to a misfire in some of the cylinders.
Someone’s taken the car home tonight, to try and reproduce it. Knowing my luck it will be fine, then I get it back and it’ll be playing up again!
March 9th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Sounds like the biggest ‘whiney noise is coming from you basegreen.
March 9th, 2006 at 9:14 pm
Like I say, if you’d spent that much money on a new car, for this to happen, then I am certain you’d feel pretty annoyed as well.
Keep the comments constructive, please.
March 9th, 2006 at 10:36 pm
A lot hinges on this being concluded to basegreen’s satisfaction: firstly, Honda will either have a satisfied customer or not, and secondly, we will all hear about the result, one way or the other, on this site which Honda have bravely sponsored because it is airing people’s views, warts and all.
If basegreen is not satisfied with the result, rejects the car and does not get a satisfactory replacement offer, doubts will be raised about the new Civic and whether Honda may have compromised quality in some of its components.
I’m sure we all want to see this sorted very soon: I can’t afford to think about a new car right now, the Hondas I’ve had over the years have all been 100% reliable, ‘bullet proof’ engines etc but if this is not resolved I shall begin to wonder.
March 10th, 2006 at 5:04 am
Exactly. I definitely want to buy into the whole Honda Owner thing. I have respect for the brand - it’s why I went for a Honda.
This blog is a very very good thing indeed, because of it’s semi-official status; I can assure you it gets monitored by Honda AND Press alike!
March 10th, 2006 at 10:52 am
I’ve had six Hondas in a row and not one has broken down.
I do hope your problem is sorted out to your satisfaction basegreen. Best wishes, Geoff.
March 10th, 2006 at 10:58 am
Well this is a very sad and sorry tale. I am now driving my 5th Honda in 15 years and my father is on his 3rd and I can honestly say we have never owned a car that skipped a beat.
I sincerely hope that they sort out your issues quickly and that you can come to a mutually acceptable level of compensation. I would only support Chris Kimberley in saying that many companies would not have given you the level of support that Honda have. If you do decide to give up on the Honda and buy something else, take my advice and do not buy a Mercedes. I could write a book on the problems I had with my first one and can tell you that Merecedes UK paid half the cost to upgrade me to a better model as they agreed the car was most unsatisfactory.
March 10th, 2006 at 11:32 am
Seems a bit of an unfortunate story. Certainly I’ve had 12 Honda’s in 16 years (company used to change them every year)and in hundreds of thousands of miles that added up to the only problems I ever had were flat tyres and windscreens. Appart from that they are unbreakable. Even had an old 1.6VTi EG6 with over 100K and it still screamed like a banshee every day. My mother does a 2 hr 80 mile commute each way to London daily and having converted she is now looking at her 3rd Honda having had 8 year trouble free and my wife is on her second. Stick with it basegreen. I think you can see from the comments you’ve been getting that Honda owners are like BT customers, they may leave the fold but they always come back.
March 10th, 2006 at 8:07 pm
I hope it all works out for you. Honda’s response seems very good so far, but I can understand your frustration.
I’m expecting my 1.8i at the end of the month so I’m now a little apprehensive after your experience. I’ve owned a Prelude and my parents Accords and a Civic made mainly in Japan. The Civic my parents owned was made in Canada and they were not very happy with it. Not so much quality wise (although because of North American content rules I think there were sacrafices in quality regarding third party components - tires, batteries, etc) but more because the engine was underpowered. My parents now buy Toyotas and are extremely happy with their third Corolla. But I was impressed with the new Civic. Brillaint styling, which reminds me of my 1992 Prelude, and reasonable power to match. So fingers crossed that the new Civic lives up to the standards of our older Japanese made cars.
March 11th, 2006 at 3:12 am
don’t know if this helps but 3 years ago I bought a1.4 sx micra had it 6weeks then traded it in for a civic exec. it was the worst finished car that I have ever seen(the Nissan) I went to see a solicitor and got the car sorted but by this time my trust in Nissan and Benfield motors (newcastle upon tyne) had been destroyed,as well as in the car .The solicitor that I used pointed to some stengthening of consumer rights.
Never mind what Chris Kimberly or any other pundit tells you go and see a solicitor(they don’t all examine your eye teeth when you open your mouth to speak) it might not even cost you for an initial appointment,you will get a suprisefrom my experience anyway. When a car is dangerous you have every right to demand a replacement or your money back, it would be wise go and find out what you legal rights are. The days when consumers were at the mercy of sellers are not over yet but massive changes in consumer rights have taken place. Just being aware of your rights are is often enough to ameliorate a situation to your advantage, Honda do not seem to be a manufacturer who indulges in brinkmanship with customers,and only customers who find themselves in your unhappy position find out the reality of customer satisfaction. The bottom line is you did not by the car from Honda your contract was with the dealer. Let the dealer sort the problem out with Honda and enjoy a superb car. Perfection is an ideal not a reality ,whatever troublefree customers feel, lets hope the troublefree customers don’t experience reality. Good luck,I hope your dealer and Honda can give you a satisfaction that Nissan and benfield could not give me,the new civic is a model reborn the only part of the old civic that I liked better was the reversing lights!.
March 11th, 2006 at 9:29 am
Yeah, write to a solicitor, write to Jim’ll fix it, come to think of it, write to Santa!!!! Trust me as someone who has first hand experience of this exact situation. Honda will resolve this without going down the route of Legal proceedings, up to you basegreen, but it all sounds a bit American to me, bringing in the lawyers, and can serve to put peoples backs up a bit. It sounds, initially, as though your dealer is going through all the necessary motions before they can even consider looking at replacing it. If at any time you feel your dealer is not doing 100% for you, contact Honda U.K direct, you won’t need a solicitor, I am confident that you will get a satisfactory result. I am not saying it will happen over night, but it will happen.
March 11th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
To chris - there is a hellava difference between knowing you legal rights and taking legal proceedings and as one who has gone down this road knowing my rights it is much easier to talk to professionals on even terms and as I have already said it is often a way of ameliorating( making better) dream on turkey can’t you read I’m no literati or scholar but going to see means in my language visiting and talking I’ve twice recently visited my solicitor without legal action taking place(i’ve yet to go down that road)and been immensly reasured on both occasions,maybe my solicitor is a rarity the kind of guy who gives sound authorative advice without taking my eyeteeth out try phoning Honda customer relations and find out if they are frightened or threatened talging to some one who is lucid coherent and aware of their right ,if youve be talking to them it m ight be a welcome change -The guy has a major problem as I have said he bought the car from the dealer not Honda and he did say the £500 pounds of extras” to be sorted out at the dealers” which to me reads the offer originates at Honda. The storm wheels you suggested are 18″ in all the Honda literature that i’ve been sent, factory optional extra ONLY FOR THE SPORT &EXEC which have 17″ wheels while the s, se & es (which I drive) have 16″ as standard .
As a supposed sales exec. you should be aware of basegreens understandable anger and frustration for the situation, which for no fault of his own, he finds himself in. your comments have done no credit to the unknown dealership that you are part of, or Honda,which you claim to be dealer representative of. We have all heard of the claims made by Tony”trust me” Blair I sincerly believe that neither basegreen, Honda, or the franchise would like that road travelled which is all too easy to embark on when dealing with people that”gob off” to make themselves self important TO basegreen I hope you find a solicitor like mine who gives you the best advice for you and not the firms finances,you will soon know. good luck with your problem let profesional advice reassure you to reduce your frustrstion and calm your anger you will get a satisfactory
resolution. Consumer rights, publicity and not least Hondas’ desire for a satisfactory reolution will see to that regards Bob
March 11th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
At he time of writing Honda are 3rd on the grid for the Bahrain G.P. and it cost them millions of Euro’s to get to that position.
For just a few thousand Euros they could put you on top of the world and in first position with a flash really working Civic - you might be lucky!
March 12th, 2006 at 11:56 am
To Bob, My comments are based on my own opinion, not corporate policy or any other agenda, that is what this site is about. I do not make any comments as a representative of the manufacturer or the dealership I work for, I make them as an individual. If they do not comply with your own, that does not make them wrong. Thanks for explaining the long words in brackets for us all too. I don’t quite understand your reference to Tony Blair but I do assume that my experience in this field is likely to be greater than yours. I am not saynig legal advice is a bad thing just, hopefully, unnecessary.
March 12th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
In USA, this car will be consider as a Lemon - meaning defactive. You must immediately demand a brand new replacement and compansation for going through all this after spending lots of money and your valuable time. Consumer awaremess is what big manufacturers are afraid of. Don’t settle for less. I’m really surprised why it’s taking so long for them to give you a brand new replacement car. Shame on you Honda. Treating nice is not enough - solve the problem ASAP and satisfy the owner.
By the way, I owned Honda Accord and Honda Civic since last 14 years without any major problem. In today’s highly computerized car, sometimes it’s very difficult to reproduce the exact problem so don’t trust their findings. They may never find it. Just demand a brand new replacement and meanwhile get a legal opinion. Good Luck.
March 13th, 2006 at 9:00 am
To Bob.
Your naivety amazes me. There is no such thing as a free lawyer. You may not have paid directly but there is not a lawyer around who will not bill the time to some one. I’ll trust honda over a lawyer who says it’s free anyday. And as to your insults to Chris well if you can’t respect the principles of this site then please don’t use it. There is a difference between personal opinion and personal insult.
To Charles.
Nice idea but as customers then we are Honda’s sole source of income and thus we pay for everything.
To John.
We thank god this is NOT the good ol’ US of A.
To basegreen.
You seem like a semsible guy - you’ve certainly made a sensible choice switching to Honda. Your going to have to sift through the dros in some of the comments your getting, but best of British to you.
March 13th, 2006 at 9:49 am
To Marc R,
Wise words.
March 13th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
to Marc R
If you read my post march 11 you will not find any mention of free advice there was a compliment to my solicotor for amongst other things his value for money
It is NOT an insult to tell someone to ignore the advice of someone else, It is,however, insulting to issue gratuitus derogatory remarks about some one’s country. I’ve never been pro -american but I’ve alway’s respected the principles of selfdetermination and never been afraid to listen to the point of view of other coutries citizen’s
A posting- march 8- touches on charles’ posting- march 11 .How many tens or millions possibly hundreds of millions do honda spend on trying to stop what if becoming why didn’t we?. Customer relations comes into that what if.
This site seems to me more about basegreens’ situation than about the demise of the 1.8 Ivtec. That is an obsevation and in no way a comment on basegreens’ rightfull disappointment,anger, and frustration at the situation he is in.
On my lack of understanding of the principles of this site -please read march 6 C. Kimberlys posting.There is a difference between facts’ and opions’s also advice and insults’ please read agaIn the postings and tell me if march 11 C Kimberly is any thing but a diatribe to me and insulting to America.
To the site. Should not a separate question be asked should Honda Dealer sales staff be allowed to declare professoional interest (march 6 C.Kimberly)and thEse spits on this subject put to bed.
Let me return to the origional Is the question Is the i.8Ivtec dead allready?
When I viewed the car I was told there was an aprox.4 month delivery time and my present car wold not be worth then what it is now i dont know how many customers have been given a firm price for their car but I was not and I would not commit to by without one Fortunately there was an ex demo avaiable and I took it ,in case there is a question raised about my requirement of a firm price for my car I was told in Feb1992 after a triple bypass that I could excpect no more than 15 years,Certainly delivery/offer conditions will affect sales adversly and reports such as basegreen will further damage sales unless A. Honda step-up production the market penetration that the new model has achieved will be lost. The order rate from what I have been told is consistent . B. problems such as basegreens must be addressed with priority or further damage will be done.
A friend of mine ,who drives a 53 civic said he did not think the design would appeal to the “blue rinse brigade” his comment not mine my wife is retired and she loves the new car Will the new design still appeal to the majority of the civics’ traditional market if not further ground will be lost .Undoubtedly it is a critical time for Honda sales development however for what it is worth I do not believe that the 1.8Ivtec is in any danger
March 13th, 2006 at 1:05 pm
Dear Bob.
Just one point you seem to have missed by a mile.
This page of the site does not question whether the 1.8 is dead or in danger or any such.
It is a page entered by basegreen that HIS 1.8 is dead already and asking for peoples opinions on what HE should do about that specific car. That’s why “This site seems to me more about basegreens’ situation than about the demise of the 1.8 Ivtec”. So I guess we’re back to your understanding of this site.
As to Chris then we all have a right to express our personnal opinion. If we have inside info that can help people then let’s use it. I’m sure if he was concerned whether this was ethical or not or if Honda would approve or not then he would not be using his full name.
I’ll check back in later for the next episode.
TaTa.
March 13th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
My comments of the 6th march, only stated that I have heard of no similar incidents of the same nature. The fact that I have mentioned my position within Honda was only to show that I have had experience of many of these cars rather than one or two, and my interest in the site is due to my profession and the ongoing need to keep a finger on the pulse of the motoring public, in particular, the owners of Honda vehicles.
My comments about America are not derogatory, it has long been referred to as the land of the lawyer and my reference was to that only, and not a sweeping attack on the american people.
I do not wish to spend my time justifying my comments to you as this site is not intended for that purpose so I am going to draw a line under this discussion after this posting.
Bob- I thought it would be a good thing that Honda employees were looking at this site and taking an interest in not only the product, but the honest opinion of those who spend a lot of money on that product and the service that follows it. I would recommend any Honda employee to do the same. You appear to have misinterpreted just about everything I have said, my references to Jim’ll Fix It and Santa were meant as a light hearted joke and not a personal attack on you, you will note that that post was directed at basegreen, not at you.
basegreen- I hope things are moving in your favour and a swift solution comes your way. I have faith in the fact that you will get a solution in the end. Unfortunately, there are some avenues that have to be explored before they will just replace the car, but I know Honda have done that for one of our customers before on a different vehicle to ensure complete customer satisfaction.
March 13th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Chris
Hope you didn’t think I aimed that last bit at you. I support what you are doing whole heartedly. The whole comment was directed at Bob and his reference to you. I too am on the inside track.
But you are right about one thing - it’s got out of hand so I’ll wish basegreen the best of luck and sign off.
March 13th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
Marc,
Totally understood, and thanks.
March 14th, 2006 at 9:47 am
Anyway back to the original subject, have the dealership been ringing you to inform you of the current situation or have you had to make contact with them for a daily answer?
Also Honda might have trouble approving or exchanging your car because they can’t even spell the words correctly.
See link
http://www.honda.co.uk/car/used/30DayExchange.html
March 14th, 2006 at 2:43 pm
No contact since last Thursday - trying to get through to someone at the moment. Pretty poor in my opinion.
March 14th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
Bit of an update from today. Managed to get hold of CS - they are (eventually) going to send an engineer from the factory in the next week. I don’t know why this didn’t happen sooner - they’re blaming the situation on the fact that the dealer’s diagnostic kit wasn’t working properly.
Anyway, we’ll see what the engineers say. Very frustrating that I am basically in the same situation as I was over two weeks ago, albeit with a diesel loan car, rather than a petrol. Que Sera.
Thanks for all the supportive comments. Will keep interested parties informed.
March 16th, 2006 at 11:09 am
The people from the factory are F I N A L L Y going to take a look at my car on Friday.
March 16th, 2006 at 11:20 am
basegreen,
That is great news! I know you say finally, and I can understand your frustration in this matter 100%, but realistically, this is only 10 days after your first posting. I would challenge any other manufacturer to act as quickly. Patience is a virtue and you obviously have it in abundance. Lets hope they resolve the issue swiftly and to your complete satisfaction and you can then fully enjoy what is truly a fabulous car.
March 16th, 2006 at 1:22 pm
It’s actually been 16 days since the issue. It happened on 1st March. I posted here a few days later.
The factory people should have been out over 10 days ago, but didn’t bother for one reason or another. I’m not saying another manufacturer would act quicker than Honda, just that it’s really dragging out.
I’m eager to put this behind me, as I am sure Honda are too. Nothing will please me more than a happy ending. I am counting on Honda CS to come through and make it that way.
March 17th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
The engineer has been with the car today - he’s driven it and although the engine isn’t throwing errors now on the diag kit , he definitely thinks there’s a problem having driven it.
March 18th, 2006 at 11:27 am
I know its a bit late to talk about the accessories (march 7) but I’ve been out in mine(es) and there is mud streaks on the nearside thrown up from the wheels Honda use a water based paint on the production line apparently for eco reasons and it is soft, my last civic marked easily. At a hundred pounds theye are not cheap but do give some protection and they look really good with the door protectors and bumper protectors not a recommendation just a note about the flaps Honda list te acc. on the civic website as you probably know by now The info about the paint came from the servie dept of my dealer and nothing has ever been a bother to them going back a few years. Hope you are behind the wheel of your own car soon. Whatever niggles folks have about it it’s a lovely driver
March 18th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Sorry so nervous about this area I forgot tolist and unclear later on I,on about the mudflaps or mudguards as they are listed. cheers Bob
March 20th, 2006 at 10:38 am
Still no progress. I was promised a call late on Friday with the engineers opinion/report. But nothing. Can’t ever seem to get hold of Honda CS person responsible.
This is getting on for three weeks of them having my car.
March 21st, 2006 at 3:05 pm
Still no progress, but I got a call from a nice lady at Honda today asking how I was enjoying my new car, and did I have any feedback about Customer Service.
“How long do you have?”
March 21st, 2006 at 4:12 pm
The Irony is astounding isn’t it. If it is any consolation, dealers live and die by the response to those customer feed back reports (literally!!!!) the feedback you have given I can only imagine, but I can assure you it will get instant attention and hopefully speed up your ultimate solution to this annoying problem. Bet she had to take the rest of the day off after that call??!!
Good luck as always.
March 21st, 2006 at 4:22 pm
The dealer is appalled by this. I am getting NOTHING out of the CS people - they never call back when they say they will.
The dealer is amazed that Honda have not grasped the severity of this issue, and done something to appease me. My “new” car has been taken to bits, has 500+ miles on the clock, all without me having driven it for more than 10minutes.
If I want a replacement, it will be June, and if I do that, they won’t offer me any compensation as things stand. (although this might be up for negotiation, we’ll see)
WHY can’t they just replace the car with something equal or better, and take my old one away for testing at the factory. Then use it for demo or test drive purposes or something.
I am getting more and more frustrated by the lack of contact, and the fact noone is taking proper ownership.
I hope this situation makes a few people think twice about the Customer Service and reliability of Honda cars.
March 21st, 2006 at 4:36 pm
Whilst I totally appreciate your frustration and anger, I would still say that this is an isolated incident. We are delivering these cars day after day and as yet heve had no such incidents at all. I am full of symapathy for your situation however and with regards to the time span required to replace the car, if you walked into any Honda dealer in the country you would be looking at that kind of lead time for some models and colours now anyway. There is, ultimately, no better compensation available than a replacement car and you have been furnished with a courtesy car in the mean time, of an equivelant specification. I am not trying to justify or defend the situatiuon which is getting more and more drawn out with every passing day but would still say that you are better off in Hondas hands than any other of my experience. I know this is small (or no) consolation at the moment, but I have recently supplied a car to a woman who had an undetectable electrical fault with a Renault. It took them in excess of 10 months to even suggest a replacement car and when they did it was a used one!!!
I hope this will not make ANYONE think twice about the reliability or customer service at Honda, which is in my humble opinion, the standard by which the Industry should guage itself. This is not an ill fitting pair of shoes that have to be changed at the shop, it is a very expensive and complex peice of engineering and although the feedback to you may be lacking somewhat, I can assure you that Honda will be taking the situation very seriously and wanting the best solution for you. As I said in a previous posting, I have no doubt you will get a satisfactory conclusion, it just won’t happen over night.
March 21st, 2006 at 4:48 pm
It won’t happen overnight, no…. it’s been three WEEKS. Remember, I’m paying my car tax, insurance, and the finance for my car. I don’t have it. I can’t have it back in it’s current state. It’s now got over 500 miles on the clock. I have no clear way forward, a lack of contact and clarity about my situation.
I haven’t had any proof that they are taking this seriously enough. Just vague promises. Even the dealer is at a complete loss as to why Honda are behaving like they are.
There’s a lot more detail behind all this (ie when the engineers are coming and going, asking the dealer to do things every now and again) that I have not gone into. It’s clear (they admit) there’s a fault with the engine.
Would you accept this situation if you bought a television, and the dealer took back the TV and spent weeks trying to repair it, and then saying if you want a replacement you will have to wait until June with no TV.
Hardly.
March 21st, 2006 at 4:59 pm
At the risk of sounding cheeky, I had exactly that situation with a plasma T.V. It took a month to repair and they leant me an equivelant one in the mean time. However, this is something else. I am regularly frustrated by the red tape involved in resolving situations like this but it is there never the less, and I am sorry you are a victim of it. Ask your dealer to get their regional Honda representative involved, if they are not already. These guys have a massive responsibility, in many areas of the sales process and customer satisfaction fields and do carry sufficient weight to take things perhaps to a higher level and maybe get a quicker result. I am not trying to defend Honda in this case and am only getting bits of info as to what is going on and monitoring it out of personal interest. All I can say is I will be interested to see how it is resolved and hope for your sake that it is sooner rather than later. Again Good luck, but do see if the Honda regional manager is involved, he should be in regular contact with your dealer anyway.
March 22nd, 2006 at 10:12 am
Spoke to someone more senior in Honda Customer Services. He seems to want to blame the dealership. The dealership is blaming Honda UK. I’m stuck in the middle of this row, still car-less and getting more frustrated by the day.
I will never EVER buy Honda again. What a mistake
March 22nd, 2006 at 10:16 am
Genuinely sorry you feel that way.
March 22nd, 2006 at 10:22 am
That’s really frustrating, basegreen. It’s hard to see how the dealership is to blame: the car clearly has a fault and they seem to have done their best to get it sorted. You say you are car-less - I know you don’t have your own car at the moment, but haven’t you still got the loan car? Hope this is resolved today.
March 22nd, 2006 at 10:24 am
I love the car (that works), but I just cannot justify putting myself through this again. Yes, other manufacturers may well deal with things in a worse way even than this, but that’s hardly the point.
The whole thing has left a sour taste, and I can’t think how my faith will ever be restored. I should not have to spend my time arguing with a senior Customer Relations employee about whose “fault” it is.
March 22nd, 2006 at 10:25 am
Yes, by “car-less” I mean I don’t have the car I am paying for.
This won’t get resolved as the person responsible is in meetings all day, and I won’t hear back until Thursday.
I just don’t see why I have to sour my relationship with the dealership. The blaming of different departments was quite bizarre to say the least. Very unprofessional.
March 22nd, 2006 at 10:33 am
It is all very bad news. The whole “in meetings all day” scenario is about as frustrating as things can get. Someone is eventually going to have to go the extra mile to restore any faith in the manufacturer that is true. Lets just hope someone takes ownership of the problem sooner rather than later and gets it sorted. I know all dealershhips are under untold pressure in March as it is new registration month, but I would have thought they would have responded better than this. All I can say is good luck and keep pestering them, although I am sure you are busy too and don’t have time spare to keep chasing, it can only help to speed things up if you keep chasing. Good luck.
March 22nd, 2006 at 10:52 am
basegreen, have you thought of taking it to the motoring press such as What Car magazine?
I’m sure they’ll get things moving a bit quicker, or even try BBC Watchdog.
Good luck.
March 22nd, 2006 at 11:02 am
I’m having to spend 30 mins - 45 mins a day chasing different people. Despite the protestations of the chap yesterday, I hardly ever get called back when I am told I will get a call. I went on holiday for 5 days - literally nothing happened because i wasnt putting pressure on people to deal with the problem. Just not acceptable.
Anyway, sounds like we’re finally getting somewhere. The dealer principle managed to get the person I spoke to last night to call back within a couple of minutes by escalating it to his manager. Amazing that, considering he was too busy to call me today.
Anyway, we all have busy work lives to attend to, so I do understand.
I’ll leave it there for the time being. Let’s just say I don’t appreciate being “piggy in the middle” between two different groups of the same company.
March 22nd, 2006 at 4:02 pm
Car being sent to Swindon factory tomorrow.
March 22nd, 2006 at 4:49 pm
I’ve already had the press contact me. At this time I’m not happy about speaking to them. I’ll get back in touch if I need to. I want to give Honda a chance to get this sorted and prove that they can look after their customers in the manner in which they deserve to be treated.
Aside from my day job, I’m freelance music journalist myself, I know the good and bad points about getting press involved. It’s not a route I want to take at this point.
March 22nd, 2006 at 4:52 pm
I agree (obviously). Mr Davies, if that route is taken, all it will do is damage customer confidence in a usually reliable product and then you can watch the value drop off your own car in front of your very eyes! I assume you are a Honda owner if you are reading these pages. I am sure you would rather your own residual values stayed strong??
March 22nd, 2006 at 4:57 pm
basegreen
Have to agree with you about the press - they can do as much harm as good.
Anyway good news about the factory. I’ve only heard about it happening a few times but when cars do go back to the factory they always come back fixed so sounds like your on the brink of a solution. Good luck.
March 22nd, 2006 at 5:08 pm
I reckon that if Honda really pull all the stops out to make it worth all this pain - I’ll consider passing this onto said journalists so they can write a positive spin story.
As you say - even a single story about reliability (there’s two faulty Civic engines on this blog alone!) will lose sales. It might only be a couple here and there, but it does have an effect.
And, as you rightly point out, it has an effect on the residual value of my own vehicle.
March 22nd, 2006 at 5:20 pm
You are lucky that the factory is in Swindon! We had an issue here on an FR-V that was vexing the bods at Honda and they actually flew 2 engineers here from Japan to investigate and resolve it! That is the kind of thing that we see from Honda that I haven’t seen from any of the 5 other manufacturers I have worked for. I sincerely hope, and do believe, that this will bring the solution that you have been looking for for the last 3 weeks or so. Fingers and toes all crossed for you.
March 22nd, 2006 at 5:23 pm
Yes. I would have expected this sort of thing to actually happen when it was meant to. They promised an engineer to come and examine it on the 3rd March initially.
March 22nd, 2006 at 7:48 pm
Hi ALL!
I am from Hungary. (Sorry for my bad English.)
I am a Honda fan and I also want to by a new Civic. Saidly I have read a pretty much negative things about this car.
So I am waiting and I delay the buy a bit.
basegreen your car is surely not the only with problems.
Here in Hungary I read 10 reviews about the car.
At 2 of the 1.8 i-VTEC, engined stopped during a ride and they could not restart it.
In one case the camshaft sensor was the failure about the other one I do not have any informations.
Theese two cars had around 8-10000 miles in the odometer and the owners said that in this period the engine required 1,5-2,5 Liter oil all in all. So the oil consuption was pretty high.
(My dad has bought a brand new 3 door Civic with an 1.6 VTEC engine in 2004 and the oil consuption was 0,0001 Liter after over 20000 miles!)
I am an electronic engineer at big firm (not in Hungary) wich developes, calibrates engine and transmission control units for many different car makers. So I see pretty good what is going on here. There are min. 15 or more control units in the car and they are not simple. To find all the bugs is very very difficult! When we find one and make a solution than we get three new at an other area.
The car makers push the time limits very hard and they want asap start the production.
So it is not an easy thing.
What a I can suggest do never buy a brand new modell, wait at least 1-1,5 years. In this time the car maker can recive reviews and they will make small modifications (not facelift!), send new firmwares to the dealers to make the cars reliable.
This is normal and well known at every car manufacturer!
About this modifications and upgrades you never read in newspapers or so..
At the start of production with the 7th generation Civic (MY2001) in the first year there were also a lot of problems and later on in 2002 the reliablity finaly reached the Honda level!
And one more thing: The production qaulity in the UK -does not matter how hard they try- will never reach the japan levels!
I will never give up my love and respect for Honda but I have to keep myself patient and wait at least a year to buy the car.
basegreen I feel really sorry for you!
I hope and wish taht your story will end in a happy end!
I will keep reading this topic.
My dad had earlier a similar issue with a dealer so I surely know how bad and hard “fight” this is.
That was his previous car wich was NOT a Honda!
With his Civic (MY2004) now is very very satisfied!
Bye!
PS.: Ooops sorry for the big amount of text..
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:25 am
Honda are going to replace my car like-for-like. No gesture of goodwill (although this was promised by another member of staff verbally).
I will get a choice of colours. Why thanks.
So, basically, the bare minimum under UK law. Nothing for the messing about for over three weeks, all the phone calls, the cost of missing work, the cost of having to change my insurance details, the finance details. Not a jot.
I’m absolutely disgusted by the way in which they have put me in a difficult position with my dealership, and the lack of trust and respect from the person dealing with it. Made me feel as though I had done something wrong. I’m so upset about it it’s untrue.
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:33 am
Just to clarify something. They will not take my word on previously being offered parking sensors if I replaced the car, and that they need to confirm this with the member of staff concerned.
I am being treated like this is MY fault. Pathetic. I thought Honda stood for good service and respect. Particularly being a Japanese company. Wonder what head office in Japan would think?
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:38 am
I am personally very surprised by this! I had fully expected the replacement car to be offered, but would have thought that there would be some kind of gesture for the massive inconvenience that you have suffered. I genuinely thought you would be better treated than this. All I can say is I hope that the new car will be an absolute gem and you get the enjoyment that you had anticipated at purchase and in time that the bitter after taste of this experience will be replaced by some ownership pleasure.
Bad show on behalf of the dealership though. I would refer them to the member of staff who made the verbal offer and see if you can push them for some kind of sweetener. Good luck.
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:49 am
Dealership have been great through all this. It was Honda CS who offered parking sensors if I went down the replacement car route. this has always been an option afforded to me, so it is hard to get excited about it.
When I get my new replacement it’ll feel like a letdown now anyway. Been driving around in an ES, and now a diesel sport for the last three weeks.
March 23rd, 2006 at 11:55 am
Am I missing something regarding the massive inconvenience. Isn’t basegreen driving a Honda Civic right now? Ok so it isn’t his car. Honda are giving him a replacement like for like the car he ordered. At the end he is now driving what he ordered and will get a brand new shiny car with very few kilometers on it. He is saving the depreciation on his car for the time between. Where has he been inconvenienced in a massive way?
Ok yes he has been stressed out and calling Honda people and not getting responses. But he was driving a Civic at the time so I’m not sure if I was in the same position I would have worried. If they had given me an inferior car I might have complained.
I feel sorry for you basegreen but by the same token I think you are complaining too much.
March 23rd, 2006 at 12:19 pm
At the same time, be VERY glad you didn’t buy a Peugeot.
March 23rd, 2006 at 12:41 pm
My anger is mainly at the way the issue is being dealt with. Having to spend time and money sorting this out just isn’t right. Having a car die on the A14 at Motorway speeds isn’t funny. Nor do I expect to have to act as a go-between for Honda UK and one of their dealers.
The dealer agrees this has been a shocking lapse of customer service, and what should have been a PLEASURE in gettnig a new car, has become a bind and a chore. Yes I have a civic outside, but it’s not mine.
I just expected some sympathy/understanding from Honda, not them treating me like this from an interpersonal and customer point of view.
As always, if it happens to someone else, it’s easier to deal with.
March 23rd, 2006 at 1:46 pm
With regards to comment No 97. Sorry as I am for your adventure, dont you think that complaining because your replacement car was a better model is a bit absurd? I would think this is a good thing and I m sure it doesn’t happen often
March 23rd, 2006 at 1:56 pm
Understand what you are saying, but I’m just saying that it will feel like I’ve gone down a step with the car when I get mine. Not asking for them to do anything about that, just explaining how I feel!
March 23rd, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Extracted from HONDA magazine dated Summer 2005!!!
From Steve Oliver, Customer Department.
“People look at me a bit stangely when I tell them the department I head up is called Customer. Not customer liason, not customer support, not customer care or anything else, just Customer. It stops them in their tracks as they’re expecting another word to finish the sentence but there isn’t one.
And that’s the whole point of simply using the word Customer; it focuses all the attention on the people my department has been set up to care for: namely you, the customer. The cynics among you might think this sounds a bit glib - yet another piece of shallow corporate-speak - but let me tell you a little story that shows how far through the Honda organisation the idea of looking after the customer goes.
At the recent Geneva Motor Show (The one that the new Civic was revealed!!!) Honda president Takeo Fukui was being interviewed by the British journalists from the European Car of the Year jury. When a jounalist from one of the UK’s ’serious’ daily newspapers asked him what the key ingredient for the company’s growth in the future was, he replied: “Improved customer satisfaction.” Everyone in the room had been expecting him to say something like “increased productivity in Honda factories” or amazing new technologies”, but it’s Mr Fukui and Honda’s belief that if our customers aren’t satisfied then we don’t have a business. It’s that simple……….
Of course we’re always looking to improve, so I invite you to get in touch with us. I have a whole department, Customer, eagar to hear your views and help you with any problems you may have”
Perhaps Mr Oliver and Mr Fukui didn’t read it either!!!
March 23rd, 2006 at 5:28 pm
“As always, if it happens to someone else, it’s easier to deal with.”
True but I’ve learned in life it isn’t worth worrying about what has already happened because it can’t be changed.
I would certainly be angry and upset with Honda when it first happened but I think if you look at what they’ve done for you I think you are ok. Perhaps they could improve their bedside manner and have kept you better informed.
March 23rd, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Well they haven’t done anything - they’ve replaced my car, as I had the right to request, and I am actually out of pocket from this as things stand.
March 24th, 2006 at 8:41 am
They originally offered £500 worth of accessories as compensation: I take it the replacement car is instead of that?
In general, a like-for-like replacement is all one can hope for under the Sale of Goods Act etc. It’s good that a courtesy car was provided while they sorted it out.
Unfortunately it’s impossible for them to compensate for the scary moment when the engine died: that’s everyone’s worst nightmare.
What would Honda need to do to make you feel good about the brand again? I guess a period of good, reliable performance from the new car will help?
March 24th, 2006 at 8:51 am
Oh absolutely, really looking forward to getting my replacement and getting past this whole debacle.
What would Honda need to do to make me feel good about the brand again? A great start would be some respect from those dealing with the issue at the moment. I have been made to feel as though this is MY fault, because I felt/feel that I should not be out of pocket and not be inconvenienced quite so much because of what was a serious mechanical failure of a key part of the vehicle after 10minutes of ownership.
If this had happened after a year, I could totally understand their attitude. My “reward” for all this stress is a new car with 10 miles less on the clock than the one that broke, literally hours and hours of messing about talking to Honda, speaking to solicitors, CAB, dealing with the insurance situation, with the finance company, the dealership et al.
It’s not good enough, and alongside their arrogant, unhelpful attitude it has left a shockingly bad taste in my mouth. I’m not the only person to have been dealing with this, and I know for a fact I am not alone in my thoughts.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:10 pm
basegreen, I think at the very least you should name and shame this dealer. From what you have said, they have not fulfilled their duty of care towards you as a valued customer. Even if the parking sensors or other compensation do not materialise from Honda themselves, the dealer should be making a gesture of their own to make up for what has unfortunately been a disastrous new car purchase. Name them so any others in your area can avoid their shambolic customer service.
March 28th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
If you read the entries above, I think you will find that the dealer has acted professionally throughout and basegreen is not displeased with their efforts, Starting a campaign against the dealer would be rather harsh. If any of you readers have experience working in a dealership, I am sure you would agree that this has been resolved quickly by anyones standards. It always seems longer when it is your car in question but I have to say this has not been dragged out at all.
March 29th, 2006 at 11:42 am
You definitely work in a dealers service or sales department then!!!! From what he said, basegreen has been piggy in the middle between the dealer and Honda. If the dealer was doing its job, he would not have even needed to ring them to find out updated info on his broken civic. Sounds to me like the old story - dealer have him in a Honda car so he’ll be happy enough, forget it!!!!!!
They should be stumping up something to keep him happy. And who said anything about a campaign???
March 29th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
You obviously don’t!! Well done! Yes I do work in a dealers sales dept. That has been well established. If you bother to read the earlier postings, basegreen has repeatedly said that the dealer has acted well in his interests. The dealer does not have the authority to replace the car, that has to be done by Honda. From what he said above, naming the dealer would place them in a very good light. The original offer to my understanding from reading the early entries, is that the accessories were offered as compensation if his car was repaired, the alternative was a replacement car which he now has on the way. Surely a brand new car qualifies as “stumping up something”???
March 29th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
Well, it’s their legal obligation to replace the car if they are not able to repair in a reasonable time.
One of the CS people said if I got a replacement car they’d still put me Parking Sensors in or similar.
Waiting to hear back on that - I think that’s reasonable given all this strife.
March 29th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
To Chris Kimberley - fair enough! I have read back through the posts, and yes the dealer may have been more active than I thought. However, I work in a dealership too and I stand by what I said about Honda’s courtesy car leading to relaxation on the dealer’s part. It puzzles me in these times of consumer power and rights, that there is still an element of confusion over who is responsible for what and what needs to be done to resolve a problem like basegreens.
The world needs a good kick up the ar*e and people need to hold their hands up and admit they’ve made a mistake!!!
Oh, and they didn’t just stump up a new car don’t forget - gisisng did pay for one!!!!! Or did I miss something else………
March 29th, 2006 at 8:56 pm
I understand what you are saying about the dealer. They’ve actually changed hands during this situation. They might have been able to do more, I don’t know. They’ve not really been the issue here. I was supplied a faulty product, and leaving all this to the dealer would have been a pain because they have 1001 issues to cope with at any given point, whereas I have only one.
As you rightly point out, Chris Riley, I have had to pay for a new car. In mid-april I will finally get what I paid for IN MARCH. So yes, I am out of pocket.
March 29th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
I can see no problem in posting the dealer name, this forum is public and I would hate to think that ANY dealer could hope to hide from public scrutiny of it service. Honda may well sponsor this site but its important that customers have interest/faith in the postings on it.
The whole subject matter is damaging to the Honda brand but lets keep this site transparent.
March 29th, 2006 at 11:44 pm
I am going to wait until this issue is fully dealt with before I decide whether to name the dealer. I can’t see any advantage to it.
Although I have been outspoken and angry, I hope that I have been fair. I actually wrote to commend one person working at the dealer, who went above the call of duty when I was purchasing the vehicle. I’m not adverse to praise where it is due.
All I need from Honda right now is a bit of something in the way of an apology, and I’ll be a happy chap, as the car is superb.
See my 1 month review, which hopefully will get posted shortly.
March 30th, 2006 at 9:01 am
I personally hope you get the sensors, but only because they have been offered to you in the past and they should stand by their offer. I still stand by my opinion that the process has been dealt with quickly (in my experience)and is still a very isolated incident at Honda. Perhaps it is Honda’s lack of experience in this field that has caused the confusion, they don’t get many cars that behave like yours basegreen. By the way, Congratulations on having, by far, the longest ongoing discussin on the Blog! I wonder how long your reord will stand. Hope the final chapter of this comes soon and they can put the smile back on your face, if nothing else, I am sure the car will.
)
March 30th, 2006 at 10:39 am
Honda’s lack of experience is of no concern to me - in fact, it should mean the deal with an unusual situation in a special way.
March 30th, 2006 at 10:40 am
Your world sounds like a great place.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:25 am
I’ll ignore the sarcasm.
I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect better treatment from a company that makes its living from reliability and good customer service.
March 30th, 2006 at 11:47 am
Only kidding. Just out of interest, did you get any discount on the car when you bought it?
March 30th, 2006 at 11:54 am
Yes, I did.
Maybe that’s why this happened ;o)
March 30th, 2006 at 11:59 am
Possibly! Naughty dealer, We were not supposed to be discounting these at all! Maybe they put a bug in the discounted cars out of spite. Looks like you got your compensation in advance ;o). Good luck with the final outcome.
March 30th, 2006 at 12:06 pm
Well, there’s ways around these things. They didn’t break any Honda UK rules, I can assure you.
btw - what do you think to the review I posted?
March 30th, 2006 at 12:13 pm
Haven’t seen it to be honest, would be interested to read it though. Where do I find it?
March 30th, 2006 at 12:18 pm
http://www.2talkabout.com/Honda/archives/2006-civic-owner-review-one-month-on/
March 30th, 2006 at 12:19 pm
Honda F1 trip to basegreen
March 31st, 2006 at 8:42 am
Now THAT is what I would call compensation! One month review, very good. I can only imagine how good it would have been without all the problems you have endured.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:30 am
Got a call from Steve Oliver, head of Customer Department last night. Very nice bloke, and exactly how people should be in that sort of position. He’s looking into all this for me.
March 31st, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Got a call back from Steve Oliver as promised this afternoon. He’s had a word with the rest of the team, and apologised for the hassle I have gone through. I realise I have been pretty irate about this issue from time to time, but I reckon that’s fair enough under the circumstances.
Anyway, the corollary is that Honda will fit Parking Sensors to my new replacement vehicle.
So a public thanks to Steve Oliver, he is a credit to Honda.
You know, you see all the letters, articles and press releases from this guy, and I can assure you he actually believes and follows through on it. Top Marks.
Maybe I will buy another Honda
March 31st, 2006 at 11:39 pm
Wow, long thread! Sadly it shows how consumers can be passed around even in this day and age. I have read many articles like this in the press, never about Honda. Their advice is ALWAYS, ALWAYS to reject the car as soon as possible, if on HP, stop your payments until the situation is sorted.
I have a three year old Civic at the moment and my father has a ten month old FR-V, we are very pleased Honda owners and these are not our first new Hondas and I’m sure they won’t be the last.
As a final point, the loan cars you have been given did not let you down. Thus showing Honda can and do get it right most of the time. I’m glad you all managed to sort it out in the end.
March 31st, 2006 at 11:47 pm
I am glad for you, all i have ever advocated is transparancy, name need not be shame, if all do their bit. I trust you are happy with the result ?
April 3rd, 2006 at 2:28 pm
I am loathe to reveal the name of the dealer, for a number of reasons. One of which is that they’ve changed hands in the last few weeks.
I’m happy with the result yes, I get a replacement car I’ll feel more comfortable with, and a little bit of something by way of apology. Steve Oliver sorted stuff out straight away, I think much of the messing about actually came from people at the factory not wanting to attend site at the dealer when they ought to have done.
Fingers crossed there’s no snags with my new car. Still got a lot of paperwork to complete and sort out, unfortunately. Quite a bit of effort in swapping vehicles like this!
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:13 pm
just wondering basegreen, you mentioned discounts earlier on, out of interest, what sort of deal did you get, it will help me to barter when i come to buy in the next few weeks.
April 3rd, 2006 at 3:17 pm
In line with what others have said.
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:34 pm
so around 15% then?
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:43 pm
Not as much as that, no. The UK dealers have instructions not to offer discount on Civics. Some are getting around this by careful use of various methods.
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:48 pm
15%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If that were possible, dealers would buy their stock from eachother!!! Perhaps in the 80’s. There is some flexability on price now, but dealer margins are a fraction of that.
April 3rd, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Careful use of various methods?, could this include discounts on accessories or someting then, or free servicing, im just guessing. I mean I dont think you have named your dealer up to now so I wont be likely to go to them specifiaclly, Im just wondering what indeed you were offered as it will be a great help to me, I begrudge paying full price.
April 3rd, 2006 at 5:54 pm
Yep - I am not going to get into a discussion about discounts, but there are some out there if you ask carefully. There’s dealer margin, and there’s some form of credits with the manufacturer which can be used to swing deals. Just go and press them.
I told mine that I WOULD NOT pay the list price, and was prepared to walk away from the deal.
April 3rd, 2006 at 6:10 pm
thanks G
April 3rd, 2006 at 6:52 pm
Sorry I can’t say more - just do your best, it will depend on the dealer. Try looking at some of the online brokers to get a target price and work towards getting near that.
As a rule of thumb, I’d personally say it’s worth £500 to be able to use a proper dealer, so you get somewhere to go to, you’ll know when the car is going to be arriving for sure (mostly!!) etc.
So find the best online price. Add in the £500 dealer premium and see how close they can get to it. I managed to get it within about £350 if I remember correctly. That was enough for me. Make sure you shop around for finace, too. There’s some good PCP deals online, even for cars you source yourself (from a main dealer).
Ostensibly, the best way of getting a good deal is to have it break down as you leave the dealership
I jest, but I have to keep a sense of humour when it comes to my experience 
Hope some of this helps!
April 3rd, 2006 at 8:35 pm
yeah thanks basegreen, sound advice, I will start looking right away.
April 3rd, 2006 at 9:16 pm
This thread is becoming massive and ought to closed now as I am about to take it off topic. I am not not a dealer or in the trade at all but James P, are you mad?
Why do you ‘begrudge’ paying full price. Honda have spent a great deal of money on R&D (they still have a bit to do on the civic it seems) and at the end of the day they are a business not a charity.
If you don’t want to pay full price, wait a year or two, choose a quiet time and take it from there or buy a model in mid/late model years, not the biggest redesign of one of the worlds best selling cars!
I intend to keep my Honda as long as possible, if only out of protest against the ‘I want it all, now, and cheap please’ mentality I have paid for and got a good solid car which pleases me each time I drive it, for clarity this is not directed at basegreen.
I found the following quote from John Ruskin quite inspiring from many different perspectives “There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper”.
April 3rd, 2006 at 10:23 pm
I picked a car that would hopefully last me five years or so. Something that in 5 years time will still look pretty fresh and still have a nice driving feel to it. Pretty sure I got it.
However, asking and GETTING discount is just good common sense. Why line the pockets of ANY company versus your own? I will always try and pay the absolute minimum I can, because that money is mine. Are you proud that you might have paid a bit more than the next person? I wouldn’t be.
April 3rd, 2006 at 10:47 pm
And dragging this back on-topic, here’s a pic of my sorry car sitting out in the rain at the dealer waiting to be picked up by the Honda Factory!
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2537/poorcar0ky.jpg
A prize for anyone identifying the dealer from the picture
April 4th, 2006 at 8:27 am
Interesting, I wonder if, by asking for the dealer to compete with the online price, you would expect the dealer to give you the “online service”. I fear the outcome of your story basegreen would be a bit different and a lot more drawn out if you had made your purchase online and relied on them to sort out your unfortunate problem. The dealers premium covers exactly what this whole string is about and also the customer service which dictates the level of income received from the manufacturer. It is hardly therefore quoting like for like, you would not buy a designer suit and haggle at the counter cos you could buy it cheaper at Matalan, nor would you take on the checkout girl at M&S qouting what you paid for your last weeks shop at Lidl. The dealer service is worth every penny and their margins are nowhere near what the public seems to think they are. I am not saying that deals should not be had, but just on a like for like basis.
April 4th, 2006 at 9:11 am
I would agree to an extent, however, most (if not all) of my dealings have been with Honda UK, rather than the dealership.
However, your point that it’s like getting the girl at M&S to let you pay what you paid at Lidl, is way off the mark.
We’re talking about the EXACT same product, delivered to your door (rather than at a dealership), with the vehicle being supplied by a Honda dealer (albeit probably not one near your home).
Since I paid a small premium over the cost of the EXACT same item, I would expect a good level of service. I’d expect the dealership to do what they can to keep me as a customer.
I agree you’d get a better service this way, as I said in my previous comment, but to claim that buying one online is tantamount to trying rip someone off is ludicrous.
It is quite funny to think the sales execs actually believe some of the things they come out with to put you off buying online.
Some of the classics I heard from various dealerships:
1. It’s a grey import from Cyprus and won’t be UK spec
2. They get them from dodgy dealers
3. If you bring in a car from another dealer we won’t give you the same level of service
4. They are fly-by-night companies and will take your money
We’re on about places like jamjar, Sainsbury’s Cars, Virgin etc, reputable companies!
So, in summary… yes I believe using a local dealer is good for the local economy, and is worth a SMALL premium over online. Something borne out by the speed at which they got me a replacement Civic to use when mine broke. The scare stories about buying online may have some truth to them, but some of the hyperbole I’ve had about it from dealers is pretty amusing.
April 4th, 2006 at 9:19 am
Those are quite amusing statements, I must admit. I wouldn’t rely on reputation though. I remember a customer when i was at Peugeot ordering a car from Jam jar and getting completely the wrong car delivered. I admit, I hate the online firms and any exec who tells you they don’t is a liar. All I am saying is if you want to pay online prices, buy online and get the service that goes with it. The dealer price will be higher, but what price your peace of mind. If anyone was, actually, equally happy to buy online, they would just do it and not ask a dealer to match the price.
April 4th, 2006 at 9:46 am
Well this is it. For me, I would have been happy to buy online, but I think it’s prudent to speak to your local dealer and see how wide the delta between the two is!
April 4th, 2006 at 7:09 pm
Chris you sound like every car dealer I’ve ever met. Discounts are not possible, dealer margins are too low. Yet I’ve not bought a car yet without haggling down the price. In fact I don’t know anyone who has paid list price for a new car.
Do you pay the asking price when you buy a house? Big purchase items always involve some haggling.
PS A Nissan salesman used the service arguement on me when I was considering buying a Micra from him in the UK. I asked him “Do you mean to say you wouldn’t service my Micra if I bought it from another dealer?” He became all flustered and admitted it made no difference where I bought the car from they would always be happy to service it. They make more money servicing cars then selling them.
April 6th, 2006 at 3:29 pm
That’s cos I am a car salesman! You all come in asking for our best price, the best price for us is the one on the screen plus a few grand! Margins ARE too low and if you had to support yourself and your family on a percentage of the profit left in the deal, you would want to get the most money for the car possible too. No big secrets or surprises there then.
All I am saying regarding insurance, is that the benefits and quality of service has to very with the price. Insurance is one of those things that most people will buy on price alone. You don’t go out looking for the CHEAPEST car, you don’t go into a clothes shop and ask for the CHEAPEST pair of trousers and you don’t buy the CHEAPEST house because the product reflects the price. Here’s news for you all, INSURANCE IS NO DIFFERENT. I was an insurance broker for 11 years. Cheap premium COULD mean substandard product. Just be happy with what you are getting. I am sure if you were offered GAP insurance with your discounted new car you would want a discount on the protection as well?! If the dealer supplies the cover thay will have more flexability in the overall deal, trust me.
April 6th, 2006 at 4:29 pm
Funnily enough, I do hunt around for the cheapest pair of trousers, and the cheapest house.
There are numerous examples of insurance packages that cost wildly differing amounts, but still use the same underwriters with the same policy.
With trousers and houses, it’s very clear what more money buys you, with insurance, less so.
Noone’s going to pay £250 more for insurance if they only hear vague threats that other companies will not have the same customer service.
April 6th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
Amazing that the bargain hunters of the world will ignore a bit of free advice. Purchase your budget insurance at will and I genuinely hope you will not have to use it, for all those reading this who may purchase soon and feel the Gap insurance is a good idea, try having a deal with the garage first and if they can’t compete then make up your mind from there. All I am saying is it is worth a try.
)
Happy shopping.
April 7th, 2006 at 10:26 am
Hi all !!!! I have just picked up this thread, and what a thread, it has taken me nearly 2 hours to read it.
I find it all very informative as I ordered a Civic ES 3days ago. First of all I would like to offer my commiserations to basegreen. What a horrible time you have had. As you may gather from my nickname(oldun) I am a silver surfer and I have had a great deal of experience with retailing (over 40 years as a boss) and I have also owned 6 accords and my wife has had 2 civics. Having introduced myself you will hopefully not treat me as a silly old sausage. Now to the matter in hand. In all the years I have been aquainted with Honda cars (30 years) I have never had to do more than take them for an annual service.(most important) this turns out to be the road to happy motoring. Having said that I did have a very similar problem with a Honda Aerodeck a right pig for cutting out at the wrong time,this turned out to be a car that was made in the good old U.S.of A I very quickly traded it in.
Apart from that no other major oroblems in all these years. Having read all the above letters I cannot see any reference to the Office of fair trading. Having been in the selling game I do know quite a lot of the consumer rules when anyone purchases anything (including cars) If you go to the website
htpp://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/cars.htm
you will see all the information on your rights when purchasing a new car. This clearly states in the event of a problem (especially such an early one) the retailer should be informed NOT THE MANUFACTURER and you