Satisfaction Lets make sure this doesn't happen again!!!

[FWH]

Originally Posted by ante00

Not all 8th gen is build in Swindon, only 3 and 5 door models, while 4 door model is bulit in Japan

Yes, see also Where is the Civic built and where was it designed? - Civinfo Wiki

[Bog]

Originally Posted by ante00

Not all 8th gen is build in Swindon, only 3 and 5 door models, while 4 door model is bulit in Japan

I had look at a 4 door (Hybrid) the other day whilst waiting for the dealer to sort yet another problem on my Civic. It does seem a more solid car and very well put together - less cheap plastics!

[Green Hornet]

Hi,

The hatchbacks are built in Swindon. The saloons are made in Japan I believe. The dealer did mention that the saloons are better build quality because they are built in Japan but maybe thats just because thats what I bought! Must say I have a friend who has the hatchback and he experiences none of the issues of build quality that I see referenced on the forum. Maybe some of us focus on the niggly negatives rather than the satisfaction of the overall package. Must say I'm a little prone to that myself as well. I think we become familiar with our cars and its only when you drive something else that you realise what a great car Honda makes.

[Brodick]

Originally Posted by LuCiUs

Hey guys...found this link on the net. May shed some light of where all the civics were built prior to Swindon.

List of Honda assembly plants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Think they should sell the new civic as a kit that you can built in your garage. Won't have built quality issues then

Not the best list in the world - makes it look like a lot of Honda's are built in America and exported when this isn't so

The problems Honda have had with the current civic are purely down to them taking a risk and hardly changing the stunning show model
because their other models are superb (including the CR-V which is built in Swindon !!! ( all I can say about out current civic is it isn't as well built as the last model - but not had any issues with it )

[LuCiUs]

hey Guys, here's an update on the whole email thing.

Just a reply to some of the other people who doesn't think there is a problem.

Look, i had 2 cars before my civic. My first one was a second hand Opel Kadet. Then I bought a brand new Toyota Corolla Hatch. Not with one of these cars i had to go online and actually search for problems relating to my own. This is because these cars are relatively cheap and minor problems are expected. But as i sit here i cant even think of ONE problem that irritated me on the Toyota. And this car costs R90 000.00 (ZAR) less than the civic. Yes, it was a 1.4, but for the price i paid for the civic i was expecting a well rounded off car. I never thought that i had to go online and actually search for problems i was experiencing because my Dealer said that i was the only one with these problems and all the other customers had none. They also didn't think replacing my scratched dash was necessary.

And you my friend also found this forum and are reading this section, which means that you also had some issues with the car. Never did this with your previous car, huh?

Anyway, sorry, heres the update on the email address for Europe.

Firstly, what a F&^^in mission. Emailed Honda SA a few times. They only responded when i was not asking an question. But when i ask something they don;t reply. So i thought i would give the lady a call who is not responding to my email. She wasn't at the office, so i emailed again. She actually then phoned me. I was amazed. I again told her that i was looking for an email address that can be used by the whole op Europe for complaints and suggestions. I also told her that myself and all the guys that would be emailing doesn't want their car to be fixed. We just want to make sure that these rookie mistakes are not made when the new civic comes out. Then she gave me her own address. So again, i told her that we can't use that for obvious reasons as this would flood her email address.

So she tells me that she will find out and call me back. 5min later my Dealer's manager phones me and tells me that he just got a call from Honda SA and that she said i had problems with my car. Now, this would have been fine if i didn't know the Manager personally. Now he wants to meet in person as i had put him in a bad light at Honda SA. But when i pitched for the meeting he didn't show. Anyway, so i'll hopefully be meeting him this week still. Will keep updating.

sorry for the long reply.

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by Brodick

The problems Honda have had with the current civic are purely down to them taking a risk and hardly changing the stunning show model

Well i've seen the show model "in the flesh" and I must disagree. it's the cost controllers who screwed it up (as usual). Much was taken from the show model but many too many things were made on the cheap in production

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by Bog

I had look at a 4 door (Hybrid) the other day whilst waiting for the dealer to sort yet another problem on my Civic. It does seem a more solid car and very well put together - less cheap plastics!

Yes it is but the ride is for granny, alas (at least compared to my 2.2 iCTDi)

[Greedy]

Originally Posted by civicfan

Yes it is but the ride is for granny, alas (at least compared to my 2.2 iCTDi)

Your right there - Civic 3/5dr is orientated to the EU market, The 4 door towards US, which is basically the same as Japan, and handles like a longboat

Originally Posted by civicfan

Well i've seen the show model "in the flesh" and I must disagree. it's the cost controllers who screwed it up (as usual). Much was taken from the show model but many too many things were made on the cheap in production

However here I have to agree with Brodick. There was very little removed from the show car. For every item you can list I cna give a dozen kept. And when you compare this to what other OEM's do in the transition from concept car to production then it's very close indeed.

Problem is you have a Focus class car with a much higher (and therefore much more expensive) equipment list selling for the same price. Yet the production volume is a 1/4 of the Focus - some thing has to give.

However from what I read then a good proportion of those on this site are actually happy and fault free, and a vast majority of the people would buy another Civic. What I also see here is the hugely different demographic from Honda's traditional customer base. Most New Civic customers under 55 are actually new to the honda brand and unlike the previous customer base (average over 55) a greater majority of them have internet access etc. I think that Honda has made a huge leap to try to appeal to a new market while trying not to loose it's existing cuatomer base. This has lead to a fantastic car which does not quite meet the expectations of either market fully.

And thus back to the original point LuCiUs made on this thread. I am sure that they will adsorb the huge amount of feed back both from this forum (which they do monitor) and from other sources to ensure the next one fully matches the expectation of their new market. So by keeping on raising the issues we raise we here are already doing our bit to best ensure it doesn't happen next time. (Thanks to Pottsy & crew).

But I don't think that flooding an email box with issues they already know about is actually going to acheive anything further. Except possible annoy all the senders as they'll get no responce due to the huge volume.

[LuCiUs]

Hi Greedy

I understand fully. But take this as an example:

The majority of Honda Dealer managers are probably above 40/50. This means if you just mention the word "internet" they switch off. When I mentioned this forum to my dealer as well as a few others there i could see the confused look on their faces. This thread was created to MAKE SURE they get the point.

It's still up to the manager to submit he's findings to Honda SA (Headquarters). And it's still Honda SA 's choice to submit this to Honda Japan.

If they don't, well, we're back to square one. I'd rather over kill the amount of complaints they get than to keep quiet and hope they know.

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by Greedy

... by keeping on raising the issues we raise we here are already doing our bit to best ensure it doesn't happen next time...

I hope they will, however given the fact that only a small fraction of customers read forums like these, they are unlikely to learn about it unless they buy the future "better" car, which again I doubt after their experience with the present.
And so Honda goes the way of many companies before: they try to improve their profit and shoot themselves in the foot in terms of future sales.
What can minimize this effect is that everybody's doing the same these days. Add to this the neverending eco-craze and you'll know why people are increasingly reluctant to buy new cars

[Greedy]

LuCiUs

Can't realy comment of dealer is SA my self. Although the dealers I have come accorss are well aware of this forum (some are one it) and have been quite positive about it. But I guess dealer performance is a whole seperate issue.

However believe me they've got the point here in Swindon. Regardless of what/ how Honda SA feed back to Honda EU & JPN. Every warranty claim gets back to the factory becasue the factory pay the cost of all such warranty claims (if the dealer doesn't feed it back he doesn't get paid the claim) and the factory recovers it from the luckless suppliers of the duff parts or even R&D if the design is at fault (being the way modern cost centres are managed). To that extent, even if the sales organisation ignore the problem totally, the close loop system they run will ensure that such problems are taken in to account when desinging the replacement. The factory will not accept a design or a process which has not countermeausred a known fault from a previous model.

[LuCiUs]

Greedy

It's good to hear that the guys from Swindon knows about the issues. Do you think they will find solutions for the current problems or just redesign the next one?

[Greedy]

Originally Posted by LuCiUs

Greedy

It's good to hear that the guys from Swindon knows about the issues. Do you think they will find solutions for the current problems or just redesign the next one?

Bit of both I should imagine. I know there were come issues countermeasured on the 07 model and I think the same applies to the 08 just released. And I know some of those fixes have been fed back in to warranty work as we have seen here. But then some times it's just not that easy.

But Honda still has the best rep - I can't remember which survey it was but Honda was top with an average of 1.27 faults per car in the wararnty period of 3 years. As many on here and elsewere are happy and fault free then it does mean that others have 2,3 or 4 faults - as we also see here - we may not like it but that's still the best in th industry. I have had over a dozen Honda's since 1990 - company and private and I have had 2 faults it total (one of which was down to Rover so it doesn't really count). I'm considered a life'r by my dealership - probably why I never get a Jazz when my Accord is serviced.

[Greedy]

Originally Posted by civicfan

I hope they will, however given the fact that only a small fraction of customers read forums like these, they are unlikely to learn about it unless they buy the future "better" car, which again I doubt after their experience with the present.
And so Honda goes the way of many companies before: they try to improve their profit and shoot themselves in the foot in terms of future sales.
What can minimize this effect is that everybody's doing the same these days. Add to this the neverending eco-craze and you'll know why people are increasingly reluctant to buy new cars

You could be right but the reverse is also true - this sit perpetuates faults whcih is why dealer are wary. Many customers only find faults due to the check list and info on this site. Many such faults would never be notice by many users if they weren't looking for them due to this site. Does this actually constitute as a fault? So not only do we see a concentration of people with issues here but we increase that very concentration by the very essence of what we do.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking this site - far from it - but when you 'look at the big picture' then 'there is more that one view'. (God, how US Corperate does that sound but you know what I mean.)

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Greedy

Many customers only find faults due to the check list and info on this site. Many such faults would never be notice by many users if they weren't looking for them due to this site. Does this actually constitute as a fault?

Cant agree that is rubbish.

You seriously saying that people wouldn't notice rattles, knocking sounds, tailgate not lifting as it should, flat batteries, windscreen rattles, poor quality radio etc etc etc etc etc if they didnt read this site??!!!!

I havent developed a smashed fog light (touch wood) just because I have read on here that it could happen, neither have I had a problem with my battery and I dont have rusting exhaust triangles.

I think you will find that many customers find faults because they are genuine faults that appear out of the blue on a poorly built car.

[Greedy]

Originally Posted by Topcat

Cant agree that is rubbish.

You seriously saying that people wouldn't notice rattles, knocking sounds, tailgate not lifting as it should, flat batteries, windscreen rattles, poor quality radio etc etc etc etc etc if they didnt read this site??!!!!

I havent developed a smashed fog light (touch wood) just because I have read on here that it could happen, neither have I had a problem with my battery and I dont have rusting exhaust triangles.

I think you will find that many customers find faults because they are genuine faults that appear out of the blue on a poorly built car.

No TopCat, I didn't say that people would miss every fault on the car, purely that there are SOME which SOME people would not have spotted without this site making them aware of them or that they woudl ahve considered normal based on previous cars and woudl not have followed up on. As you guote it then I am sure you will agree that SOME people would not have looked in to the cavity of the exhaust ring to notice rust on the plack paint at the back - assuming they have any. And thus based on this kind of activity then this site is not statistically representative of the whole of the customer base for this vehicle and their opinions of / problems with the car and Honda.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Greedy

No TopCat, I didn't say that people would miss every fault on the car, purely that there are SOME which SOME people would not have spotted without this site making them aware of them or that they woudl ahve considered normal based on previous cars and woudl not have followed up on.

What faults could be missed that would be classed as normal based on others cars ?

[Greedy]

Originally Posted by Topcat

What faults could be missed that would be classed as normal based on others cars ?

Easy

Panel gaps on door bumpers etc for 1. Honda have fantastic panel gap control - remound for it in the industry. A reliable crash test on any Honda - run your fingers along the gap between wing and bonnet one hand each side at the same time - if you can feel a difference left to right or a chaneg in the width of the gap then good chance it's had a shunt and been fixed in a body shop. A Ford Exec is know to have quoted when the 2001 Civic was launched - how the hell do they do that. We have had some issues here with door alignment but if you had come from another high volume car where the control is not so good then you might not have queried it as you've seen it before but having read it here then you will pop down to the dealer and ask him to sort it out which he will (probably) do. My uncle did the same with his blue oval and was told that's how they come - can't get it any better. I'm not saying that you are not entitled to have it fixed or that it's not wrong but in other circumstances you may not have noticed or done anything about it.

[Brodick]

This thread seems to be saying in a roundabout way that all civics have faults

THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE

This site represesnts a small proportion of new civic owners most happy
some not so happy some with problems some with no problems

If you have issues and are not happy then you have good reason to complain and contact Honda but do not assume that we are all in the same boat

Rant over

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Greedy

Easy

Panel gaps on door bumpers etc for 1. Honda have fantastic panel gap control - remound for it in the industry. A reliable crash test on any Honda - run your fingers along the gap between wing and bonnet one hand each side at the same time - if you can feel a difference left to right or a chaneg in the width of the gap then good chance it's had a shunt and been fixed in a body shop. A Ford Exec is know to have quoted when the 2001 Civic was launched - how the hell do they do that. We have had some issues here with door alignment but if you had come from another high volume car where the control is not so good then you might not have queried it as you've seen it before but having read it here then you will pop down to the dealer and ask him to sort it out which he will (probably) do. My uncle did the same with his blue oval and was told that's how they come - can't get it any better. I'm not saying that you are not entitled to have it fixed or that it's not wrong but in other circumstances you may not have noticed or done anything about it.

Actually - I have a difference in panel gaps as do many civics that I have seen, a friend of mine sent hers back twice due to noticable differences that were obvious with the naked eye.

So now we have drawn that fault to the forum members everyone can rush outside and check theirs

Oh and Brods put a sock in it we all know that your car is perfect so it is obvious that not ALL civics are the same