[Suspension] URGENT: Defect on Civic Safety Critical Part

[Dalboy]

Originally Posted by mrh339

I think FMEA is probably too busy fixing all those faulty displays in the Focus to have time to come on here again.

I see he has visited today

[NH Dan]

I did chuckle to see Ford being mentioned on Watchdog a few nights ago, and not for the first time......

[Kremmen]

TBH Dan I was a little bit surprised by their reaction to Fords offer.

Ford have admitted that they had a manufacturing quality issue 4 years ago that has just recently started causing issues.

I think they should be replacing the faulty instrument units for free, not charging a flat £99 for the replacement.

Sorry Watchdog but I don't think it's a "result"

[FMEA]

Dear Civinfo Members

Due to Doubtingthomas's open letter as posted yesterday, and the second "Official Honda Release", early next week I will post a very detailed response that should hopefully answer all the questions that have been asked of late, put an end to the frankly bizare (but very amusing) "Ford Conspiracy" claims as have been made and will also make my view of the recent official Honda releases very clear.

I will also be attaching a series of documents to my post that will show all Civinfo members the nature of the "true" investigations as have been conducted by Honda and VOSA to date. These documents and others will also hopefully clearly demonstrate why all owners of effected vehicles should not believe for one second the "No problem what so ever/case closed" statement as was issued to Honda dealers yesterday (to quote a post as left by Nice yesterday).

[Brodick]

Originally Posted by FMEA

Dear Civinfo Members

Due to Doubtingthomas's open letter as posted yesterday, and the second "Official Honda Release", early next week I will post a very detailed response that should hopefully answer all the questions that have been asked of late, put an end to the frankly bizare (but very amusing) "Ford Conspiracy" claims as have been made and will also make my view of the recent official Honda releases very clear.

I will also be attaching a series of documents to my post that will show all Civinfo members the nature of the "true" investigations as have been conducted by Honda and VOSA to date. These documents and others will also hopefully clearly demonstrate why all owners of effected vehicles should not believe for one second the "No problem what so ever/case closed" statement as was issued to Honda dealers yesterday (to quote a post as left by Nice yesterday).

Good Grief

Get a grip!

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by FMEA

Dear Civinfo Members

Due to Doubtingthomas's open letter as posted yesterday, and the second "Official Honda Release", early next week I will post a very detailed response that should hopefully answer all the questions that have been asked of late, put an end to the frankly bizare (but very amusing) "Ford Conspiracy" claims as have been made and will also make my view of the recent official Honda releases very clear.

I will also be attaching a series of documents to my post that will show all Civinfo members the nature of the "true" investigations as have been conducted by Honda and VOSA to date. These documents and others will also hopefully clearly demonstrate why all owners of effected vehicles should not believe for one second the "No problem what so ever/case closed" statement as was issued to Honda dealers yesterday (to quote a post as left by Nice yesterday).

I'll happily wait to see this then but in the meantime, in my view, i'd like to try and clear a few bits up.

1) you mention an "amusing Ford Conspiracy" - this comes from the fact that your ISP address is that of the Ford Motor Company and the fact that you have repeatedly side stepped the question as to your connection to them.

2) I'm assuming that you have a direct contact to either Honda or VOSA as you seem to be fully in receipt of the facts with regards to the content of the investigation held and the meeting at Swindon between the two recently??? which leads to

3) Your proof backing up the need to completely ignore the manufacturers instructions as well as those of a government based inspectorate.

[jayt43]

I haven't been this gripped by a storyline since Bobby Ewing stepped out of the shower and said "Good Morning Pam" in the Dallas Season 8 finale!

[Palindrome]

Originally Posted by FMEA

Dear Civinfo Members

Due to Doubtingthomas's open letter as posted yesterday, and the second "Official Honda Release", early next week I will post a very detailed response that should hopefully answer all the questions that have been asked of late, put an end to the frankly bizare (but very amusing) "Ford Conspiracy" claims as have been made and will also make my view of the recent official Honda releases very clear.

I will also be attaching a series of documents to my post that will show all Civinfo members the nature of the "true" investigations as have been conducted by Honda and VOSA to date. These documents and others will also hopefully clearly demonstrate why all owners of effected vehicles should not believe for one second the "No problem what so ever/case closed" statement as was issued to Honda dealers yesterday (to quote a post as left by Nice yesterday).

Great, looking forward to the read, then I'll make my mind up!

[HappyMan]

I am sorry FMEA but whatever you say there still doesn't seem to be the 'danger' associated to the problem as you seem to insist there is. I for one will remain sceptical not matter what information you attach to your 'proof' post. You have waited 2.5 years to report a problem, you won't answer a simple question as to why your ISP was from ford and you constantly act mysteriously!

If this was a serious problem people would have been badly injured or died through accidents - that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I am still not sure what your purpose of posting is and still won't be when you post your information, which you continually promise 'soon'.

I remain sceptical!

[Eddie]

Regarding the FMEA post's and the on-going tantrums.
Never have I witnessed such child like loyalty to a brand name from Civic owners, before any concrete result is published. Do you refuse to believe Honda can get it wrong? Why don't you all sit tight and wait until this is cleared up one way or another. There is an excuse for Dan the Honda Dealer, as it may hit his sales targets, but the rest should reserve judgement. Foot in mouth is not the best family motto.
Eddie the ex-Civic owner - thank God!

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Regarding the FMEA post's and the on-going tantrums.
Never have I witnessed such child like loyalty to a brand name from Civic owners, before any concrete result is published. Do you refuse to believe Honda can get it wrong? Why don't you all sit tight and wait until this is cleared up one way or another. There is an excuse for Dan the Honda Dealer, as it may hit his sales targets, but the rest should reserve judgement. Foot in mouth is not the best family motto.
Eddie the ex-Civic owner - thank God!

Let's look at the facts of the situation, Eddie.

FMEA makes a post claiming to have found a serious fault with the civic from 2.5 years ago, but said nothing at the time. He continues to make claims that he is going to expose this problem to the press ' in the near future' and meeting with his present employers to talk about the press angle. As of yet nothing has happened. FMEA still refuses to answer simple questions and seemed to want to 'share' with us BEFORE everything was sorted out - a little childish, don't you think?

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't/couldn't have been a problem but it seems there is no evidence to back up his 'serious' claim. He himself says there have been no recorded accidents because of this fault. So, realistically HOW bad is it?

It is ok for people to have differing views on the Civic but ex-owners do seem to be a little bias - I exempt TC from that comment because to be honest if I had the number of problems she had with her civic I would have driven it through the doors of Honda UK HQ long ago.

I will remain sceptical until I can be convinced that this 'issue' is really a 'serious issue'.

[civicfan]

I guess this sums it up quite well (and in "adult" language) :

Black PR - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Kremmen]

I think in this case it's backfired though

No case to answer - no massive media scandal as first reported - job done.

[Doubtingthomas]

I am on record as thinking there was some substance in FMEA's original lengthy post although I was unsure as to his/her motives for publishing it at the time he/she did.

I am pleased FMEA will respond to my 'open letter'. Personally I have an open mind on the matter. Unfortunately, I have come to accept that the more years one accrues on this planet, the more cynical one becomes of government, media and businesses.

[Pottsy]

Some off topic stuff moved to here.

In a previous life I used to be involved in manufacturing and construction, in a very safety critical industry (offshore oil) and this kind of problem happened all the time.

Materials and dimensions would occasionally be under size or under spec. All that happened was that you would re-run calculations and if everything was fine you would resubmit your findings to the client (an oil company) and to the nominated third party (DNV, Lloyds register or whoever was nominated for the job). The nominated third party inspectorate would then approve or reject the case (it was nearly always approve, because you would never submit something that was not OK).

Here it appears that exactly the same thing has happened. The independent third party, VOSA, has been presented with the case and has approved it.

Originally Posted by Eddie

...Do you refuse to believe Honda can get it wrong? Why don't you all sit tight and wait until this is cleared up one way or another...

Given that this has been examined and approved by a third party - are you suggesting that more than one third party has to approve the revised design before it's signed off as OK? If so, how many third parties should be involved and which third party is more qualified to do this than VOSA, the organisation set up to do this very job?

On this occasion I am impressed with Honda's actions. A manufacturer when faced with the animated rantings of an individual could have just responded with a statement "No, it's fine". But Honda have taken the time and trouble to meet with the individual, examine the case, and take it straight to the third party for a final decision. What actions could Honda have possibly taken that were more responsible than that?

[Eddie]

Dear Pottsy,
I readily concede that Honda have reassured this website, which in all fairness is a dot on the map compared to national press or BBC Watchdog for example. Given the confusion on the Civic handbrake as to which cars qualify for the modification, a bold public announcement from Honda would stop the FMEA allegation. Not everyone has internet access and I only found this site by 'accident' - not the rear wheel type I should add! Can you blame FMEA for staying anonymous in the face of Honda's lawyers and having to clear things with his employers - assuming it's not a big hoax.
It is not the alleged defect in specification which matters, it is whether it is deemed dangerous enough to be recalled. The UK Clio bonnet catch problem highlighted on BBC Watchdog springs to mind.
Wheels are certainly turning out there!

Eddie.

[mrh339]

They sure are Eddie but the question remains unanswered why does FMEA post from a Ford UK IP address? Until this is answered we have to take what he claims with a large pinch of salt. So again the challenge goes out to FMEA explain the Ford IP address please and then(and only then) can we take you seriously.

[Bog]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Regarding the FMEA post's and the on-going tantrums.
Never have I witnessed such child like loyalty to a brand name from Civic owners, before any concrete result is published. Do you refuse to believe Honda can get it wrong? Why don't you all sit tight and wait until this is cleared up one way or another. There is an excuse for Dan the Honda Dealer, as it may hit his sales targets, but the rest should reserve judgement. Foot in mouth is not the best family motto.
Eddie the ex-Civic owner - thank God!

I fully agree, some people are really kidding themselves about the Civic.

This particular issue may be nothing, but there are plenty of other issues with Civic, which paint a poor picture of Honda.

It is not a perfect car - it's a good car, but has some serious quality issues due to Honda's rush to bring it to the market. Whilst I have suspicions about FMEA's true motives, I do believe their may be some truth being the OP.

I work closely with a number of [Large] fleet managers and they are seeing more and more problems with Civics (compared with equivalent models in the class) - I know most of you won't want hear it, but this gen Civic is getting quite a negative reputation.

[HappyMan]

It isn't whether there is a problem or not it is whether the probability ratio is high or not. It's not even about the civic's quality it is about something that has, so far, had no documented failure or accident stemming from this issue.

I dont' see how this can be seen as a major issue. Pottsy's post is absolutely right about the recalculations etc. This is only an issue because someone 2.5 years later has decided to do say something about it - surely FMEA would have been better to have waited until he had all the facts before he posted the original post.

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Dear Pottsy,
I readily concede that Honda have reassured this website, which in all fairness is a dot on the map compared to national press or BBC Watchdog for example. Given the confusion on the Civic handbrake as to which cars qualify for the modification, a bold public announcement from Honda would stop the FMEA allegation. Not everyone has internet access and I only found this site by 'accident' - not the rear wheel type I should add! Can you blame FMEA for staying anonymous in the face of Honda's lawyers and having to clear things with his employers - assuming it's not a big hoax.
It is not the alleged defect in specification which matters, it is whether it is deemed dangerous enough to be recalled. The UK Clio bonnet catch problem highlighted on BBC Watchdog springs to mind.
Wheels are certainly turning out there!

Eddie.

Thats exactly what we can do - what justification does he have for staying anonymous?? if he needs to check with his employers, he should have done it before slinging the mud about. I'm sure that the extra week or so would have been fine, bearing in mind he's waited 2.5 years to bring this up in the first place.