AC/Heater air con not working properley

middypusss · 4th May 2008, 12:35

I bought my Civic 2.2 ES new in March 07. During last years April heatwave! I noticed air con didn't work so took it back to dealers who agreed and re-gassed it. A few weeks later I took it back again as although it now worked a bit it would not cool car even if left on full fan for long periods. Dealers checked air temp from vents and said they were within tolerance for working system. So I had to put up with it but as last summer was so bad it was just tolerable. This year as weather has got warmer I noticed lack of cooling again and took it back to the dealers.They again measured air temp from vents and agree it is faulty.They injected a dye in the system to check for leaks and got me to return in 3 days. On inspection they could find no leaks and so re-gassed system and said it is now ok,However it still will not cool car and although I am taking it back to them i am afraid I will again get fobbed of with system within tolerance. Has any on else had similar problems and how do other owners rate the efficiency of their air con.
p.s. My wife owns a Jazz and air con on that is excellent cooling the car within minutes

Bob H · 4th May 2008, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by middypusss

I bought my Civic 2.2 ES new in March 07. During last years April heatwave! I noticed air con didn't work so took it back to dealers who agreed and re-gassed it. A few weeks later I took it back again as although it now worked a bit it would not cool car even if left on full fan for long periods. Dealers checked air temp from vents and said they were within tolerance for working system. So I had to put up with it but as last summer was so bad it was just tolerable. This year as weather has got warmer I noticed lack of cooling again and took it back to the dealers.They again measured air temp from vents and agree it is faulty.They injected a dye in the system to check for leaks and got me to return in 3 days. On inspection they could find no leaks and so re-gassed system and said it is now ok,However it still will not cool car and although I am taking it back to them i am afraid I will again get fobbed of with system within tolerance. Has any on else had similar problems and how do other owners rate the efficiency of their air con.
p.s. My wife owns a Jazz and air con on that is excellent cooling the car within minutes

Sounds very much like your car has a refrigerant leak on what should be a hermetically sealed circuit. If not sorted out then this will only end up costing you money in the long term!

The refrigerant is added to the system by weight, (not sure how much as don't currently have the info to hand) therefore if the refrigerant is recovered correctly, then the amount of refrigerant recovered from the system can also be weighed thus easily explaining what the shortage is.

The only thing left to do is identify the leak and repair. The dye that they added is to help to find a leak as it will show up under a special lamp they will use, they just need to make sure they point it in the correct place!

Hope this helps?

Cheers,

Bob...

FWH · 4th May 2008, 14:02

The aircon should be effective, much like you describe the Jazz.
Something is wrong by the sounds of it.

Maybe try a different dealer?

Also, there is a fair bit of aircon info here:
Climate Control - Civinfo Wiki

gm1980 · 4th May 2008, 14:37

Hi, as a mechanical engineer, if they find no leaks that means that they have to check two devices. One is the compressor and they have to repalce it if not working properly under warranty. The other one is the expansion device. Usually a capillary tube before evaporatore that has the task to expand the refrigerant and so the temperature is reduced in the evaporator. Anyway if they uderstand that you are not much aware of ACUs they will only refill with refrigerant. My suggestion is to forced the check the compressor (Inlet and outlet temperature) and the caipllary tube which I belive is the problem.

pcr · 4th May 2008, 15:03

Maybe you could try the aircon diagnostics as described in Wiki under Diagnostics/Climate Control, post your results here and we can get a comparison.
I'm thinking that possibly a temperature sensor is faulty, but not likely if you have temp setting to Low.

middypusss · 4th May 2008, 16:30

Thanks for the replies
Here are the diagnostic checks

1st sensor: Cabin temperature C 23

2nd sensor: Exterior temperature C 21

3rd sensor: Solar radiation sensor value (Dark=00, Flashlight=04, Cloudy=10, Sunny=65) 08

4th sensor: Temperature of the air exiting the air conditioning evaporator C 18

5th sensor: Drivers air mix opening (low value indicates cooler air distribution, higher value indicates warmer air distribution) % open d9

6th sensor: Passenger air mix opening (low value indicates cooler air distribution, higher value indicates warmer air distribution) % open 00

7th sensor: Mode positioning % open F0

8th sensor: recirc flap % open. 00

9th sensor: vent output air temperature C 10

Do these results mean anything to any-one

Dimplyred · 4th May 2008, 16:35

As FWH says, I would try another dealer. Is there one near to you?

Kremmen · 4th May 2008, 16:56

Quote:

4th sensor: Temperature of the air exiting the air conditioning evaporator C 18

This has to be one that matters ?

When it's hot inside the cabin, the air coming out should be really cold.

I remember making the mistake once of pointing a face level vent straight at my forehead - it was like biting into an ice lolly with a tooth filling missing after a short while

HappyMan · 4th May 2008, 18:44

I think the dealer is fobbing you off. Find a new dealer and get them to check it. I had the air con on in my car today (as always) and it cools the car very quickly and efficiently so there must be a problem with yours.

pcr · 4th May 2008, 19:46

Middy, under what conditions did you take those readings. ie. selected temp, outside temp, sunny/dull, auto mode, etc. Also, it is best done after a run so that things are stable.

gm1980 · 5th May 2008, 05:51

The temperature of air coming out of the evaporator shouldnt be 18 C. In my opinion is two hight since the outside temp is only few degrees higher. That means to me that evaporatore is not working. If that is the case then you have to check those I mentioned before

Bob H · 5th May 2008, 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by gm1980

The temperature of air coming out of the evaporator shouldnt be 18 C. In my opinion is two hight since the outside temp is only few degrees higher. That means to me that evaporatore is not working. If that is the case then you have to check those I mentioned before

I would agree that the DT across the evaporator is miles out, however what is going on with the 9th sensor: vent output air temperature C 10? Is this suggesting that 8ºC is being lost (or made up, depends how you look at it!) between air off and the outlet?

The dealer has suggested shortage of refrigerant, (should be between 440-490g) however as suggested by a previous post, perhaps middypusss should try another dealer. The important thing here is to get it sorted once & for all...

Cheers,

Bob...

pcr · 5th May 2008, 17:54

As an example, here are my readings with temp set to LO, after 2 minutes running :-

1 16 Cabin temp
2 17 External temp
3 12 Solar radiation (overcast)
4 03 Aircon evap output temp
5 d9 Drivers air mix
6 d9 Passengers air mix
7 F0 Mode position
8 F0 Recirculation flap
9 11 Vent output temp

So for yours Middy, the output of the aircon evap is high, so howcome the vent ouput seems OK ?

middypusss · 5th May 2008, 22:39

I shall do diagnostic check again tomorrow and see if results differ.

Kremmen · 6th May 2008, 06:55

If your dealer won't play ball then you may be forced to go to an independent specialist and then bill Honda for the work, assuming a defect is found.

Another ploy, once you have another set of readings is to get them to do a similar check on a car they have in stock and prove that you have a problem.

middypusss · 6th May 2008, 20:37

Latest readings done today after 15 min run auto settings temp set to Lo
1 25 Cabin temp
2 19 External temp
3 08 Solar radiation (overcast)
4 22 Aircon evap output temp
5 d9 Drivers air mix
6 00 Passengers air mix
7 F0 Mode position
8 F0 Recirculation flap
9 61 Vent output temp

no 9 makes no sense ,could it say b1, if so what does that mean

Help!!

pcr · 6th May 2008, 21:26

As others have said earlier, I think Aircon evap' at 22C suggests the cooler isn't working and that's probably as much as you can get from these diagnostics.

I would be very assertive with the dealer, tell them you don't won't the car back until its fixed, insist on a courtesy car, and make sure your car is working before leaving the dealership. Yes I know, easier said than done.

AndyC · 8th May 2008, 11:44

I think my air con is alsoe doing the weird things. A few days ago, it was nice and cold, irrespective of what temp was selected on the dial! Then yesterday it took over half an hour of driving to get any sort of cold out of it whatsoever. It barely cooled the car. In fact it didn't even cool the car.

electric · 12th May 2008, 19:06

I drove for 98 miles yesterday. The outside temp was 25C and the sun was shining into the car. The climate control was set on 20c auto.

For the entire journey auto kept the fan on high and the recirculating switch with its amber light was on. It blowed cold air from the vents Ok but never at a freezing temp that would have really got the internal temp down enough for it to at least reduce fan speed. If there had been fan vents at the back as well as the front it might have managed it better.

I probably would not have wanted much colder air blowing full fan on my neck and arms for 2 hours but perhaps more colder air would have eventually enabled it to lower fan speed.

middypusss · 26th May 2008, 15:58

Just an update to this problem.Dealer on 2nd examination finally found leak on the pipe that runs right across the back of the engine.This has been replaced and with system re-gassed i now have cool air again. However it still is not a patch on the air conditioning in my previous cars or on my wifes Jazz. In light of other comments by other forum members about temperature of cold air coming out of the system, I think i'll give it a few weeks and see how system copes in any really warm weather.Thanks to all people who responded.

4th May 2008, 12:35	#1 (permalink)
middypusss Valve Cap Join Date: 21st March 2007 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	air con not working properley I bought my Civic 2.2 ES new in March 07. During last years April heatwave! I noticed air con didn't work so took it back to dealers who agreed and re-gassed it. A few weeks later I took it back again as although it now worked a bit it would not cool car even if left on full fan for long periods. Dealers checked air temp from vents and said they were within tolerance for working system. So I had to put up with it but as last summer was so bad it was just tolerable. This year as weather has got warmer I noticed lack of cooling again and took it back to the dealers.They again measured air temp from vents and agree it is faulty.They injected a dye in the system to check for leaks and got me to return in 3 days. On inspection they could find no leaks and so re-gassed system and said it is now ok,However it still will not cool car and although I am taking it back to them i am afraid I will again get fobbed of with system within tolerance. Has any on else had similar problems and how do other owners rate the efficiency of their air con. p.s. My wife owns a Jazz and air con on that is excellent cooling the car within minutes

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This thread is about: air con not working properley, it's in Bugs, faults and irritations at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; I bought my Civic 2.2 ES new in March 07. During last years April heatwave! I noticed air con didn't work so took it back ...

4th May 2008, 14:02	#3 (permalink)
FWH Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 3rd June 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,373 Thanks: 9 Thanked 48 Times in 43 Posts iTrader: (0)	The aircon should be effective, much like you describe the Jazz. Something is wrong by the sounds of it. Maybe try a different dealer? Also, there is a fair bit of aircon info here: Climate Control - Civinfo Wiki

4th May 2008, 14:37	#4 (permalink)
gm1980 Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 28th February 2008 Location: Larnaca, Cyprus Posts: 149 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi, as a mechanical engineer, if they find no leaks that means that they have to check two devices. One is the compressor and they have to repalce it if not working properly under warranty. The other one is the expansion device. Usually a capillary tube before evaporatore that has the task to expand the refrigerant and so the temperature is reduced in the evaporator. Anyway if they uderstand that you are not much aware of ACUs they will only refill with refrigerant. My suggestion is to forced the check the compressor (Inlet and outlet temperature) and the caipllary tube which I belive is the problem.

4th May 2008, 15:03	#5 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Maybe you could try the aircon diagnostics as described in Wiki under Diagnostics/Climate Control, post your results here and we can get a comparison. I'm thinking that possibly a temperature sensor is faulty, but not likely if you have temp setting to Low.

4th May 2008, 16:30	#6 (permalink)
middypusss Valve Cap Join Date: 21st March 2007 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the replies Here are the diagnostic checks 1st sensor: Cabin temperature C 23 2nd sensor: Exterior temperature C 21 3rd sensor: Solar radiation sensor value (Dark=00, Flashlight=04, Cloudy=10, Sunny=65) 08 4th sensor: Temperature of the air exiting the air conditioning evaporator C 18 5th sensor: Drivers air mix opening (low value indicates cooler air distribution, higher value indicates warmer air distribution) % open d9 6th sensor: Passenger air mix opening (low value indicates cooler air distribution, higher value indicates warmer air distribution) % open 00 7th sensor: Mode positioning % open F0 8th sensor: recirc flap % open. 00 9th sensor: vent output air temperature C 10 Do these results mean anything to any-one

4th May 2008, 16:35	#7 (permalink)
Dimplyred Type R GT 09570 Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th August 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 3,869 Thanks: 17 Thanked 81 Times in 80 Posts iTrader: (0)	As FWH says, I would try another dealer. Is there one near to you?

4th May 2008, 18:44	#9 (permalink)
HappyMan Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 16th August 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 2,115 Thanks: 14 Thanked 50 Times in 46 Posts iTrader: (0)	I think the dealer is fobbing you off. Find a new dealer and get them to check it. I had the air con on in my car today (as always) and it cools the car very quickly and efficiently so there must be a problem with yours.

4th May 2008, 19:46	#10 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Middy, under what conditions did you take those readings. ie. selected temp, outside temp, sunny/dull, auto mode, etc. Also, it is best done after a run so that things are stable.

5th May 2008, 05:51	#11 (permalink)
gm1980 Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 28th February 2008 Location: Larnaca, Cyprus Posts: 149 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	The temperature of air coming out of the evaporator shouldnt be 18 C. In my opinion is two hight since the outside temp is only few degrees higher. That means to me that evaporatore is not working. If that is the case then you have to check those I mentioned before

5th May 2008, 17:54	#13 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	As an example, here are my readings with temp set to LO, after 2 minutes running :- 1 16 Cabin temp 2 17 External temp 3 12 Solar radiation (overcast) 4 03 Aircon evap output temp 5 d9 Drivers air mix 6 d9 Passengers air mix 7 F0 Mode position 8 F0 Recirculation flap 9 11 Vent output temp So for yours Middy, the output of the aircon evap is high, so howcome the vent ouput seems OK ?

5th May 2008, 22:39	#14 (permalink)
middypusss Valve Cap Join Date: 21st March 2007 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I shall do diagnostic check again tomorrow and see if results differ.

6th May 2008, 06:55	#15 (permalink)
Kremmen Krem de la Krem Civinfo guru Join Date: 7th January 2007 Location: West London Posts: 2,638 Thanks: 8 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts iTrader: (0)	If your dealer won't play ball then you may be forced to go to an independent specialist and then bill Honda for the work, assuming a defect is found. Another ploy, once you have another set of readings is to get them to do a similar check on a car they have in stock and prove that you have a problem.

6th May 2008, 20:37	#16 (permalink)
middypusss Valve Cap Join Date: 21st March 2007 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Latest readings done today after 15 min run auto settings temp set to Lo 1 25 Cabin temp 2 19 External temp 3 08 Solar radiation (overcast) 4 22 Aircon evap output temp 5 d9 Drivers air mix 6 00 Passengers air mix 7 F0 Mode position 8 F0 Recirculation flap 9 61 Vent output temp no 9 makes no sense ,could it say b1, if so what does that mean Help!!

6th May 2008, 21:26	#17 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	As others have said earlier, I think Aircon evap' at 22C suggests the cooler isn't working and that's probably as much as you can get from these diagnostics. I would be very assertive with the dealer, tell them you don't won't the car back until its fixed, insist on a courtesy car, and make sure your car is working before leaving the dealership. Yes I know, easier said than done.

8th May 2008, 11:44	#18 (permalink)
AndyC Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 15th January 2008 Location: N Ireland Posts: 110 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I think my air con is alsoe doing the weird things. A few days ago, it was nice and cold, irrespective of what temp was selected on the dial! Then yesterday it took over half an hour of driving to get any sort of cold out of it whatsoever. It barely cooled the car. In fact it didn't even cool the car.

12th May 2008, 19:06	#19 (permalink)
electric Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 19th February 2008 Location: London Posts: 161 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I drove for 98 miles yesterday. The outside temp was 25C and the sun was shining into the car. The climate control was set on 20c auto. For the entire journey auto kept the fan on high and the recirculating switch with its amber light was on. It blowed cold air from the vents Ok but never at a freezing temp that would have really got the internal temp down enough for it to at least reduce fan speed. If there had been fan vents at the back as well as the front it might have managed it better. I probably would not have wanted much colder air blowing full fan on my neck and arms for 2 hours but perhaps more colder air would have eventually enabled it to lower fan speed.

26th May 2008, 15:58	#20 (permalink)
middypusss Valve Cap Join Date: 21st March 2007 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just an update to this problem.Dealer on 2nd examination finally found leak on the pipe that runs right across the back of the engine.This has been replaced and with system re-gassed i now have cool air again. However it still is not a patch on the air conditioning in my previous cars or on my wifes Jazz. In light of other comments by other forum members about temperature of cold air coming out of the system, I think i'll give it a few weeks and see how system copes in any really warm weather.Thanks to all people who responded.