Paint Stone chips - Should we open the floodgates? (well they kinda ask for it) - Page 11

Jack The Lad. · 27th August 2008, 22:17

More than 8 years ago alan.
Honda were using water based paint on my two Preludes in 98 and 99 and before that.
I blame Brown for the roads. He should be laying the tarmac, not running the country.

alanwalne · 27th August 2008, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack The Lad.

More than 8 years ago alan.
Honda were using water based paint on my two Preludes in 98 and 99 and before that.
I blame Brown for the roads. He should be laying the tarmac, not running the country.

Jack, were the Preludes galvanised? Perhaps water based paint adheres better to straight steel than the coated metal. The Preludes' bonnets were also a lot flatter than the Civic's thereby reducing the frontal area.

Jack The Lad. · 28th August 2008, 11:07

alan, I had the same problem with the Preludes as we are having with our Civics, regarding stone chipping. Back in 98 and 99, 25k was a fair bit of dosh for a Honda and my fight with Honda UK lasted for months and months.
In the end , they sent me a "Good Will" cheque for £700, as back then you could deal with the MD directly and I was driving him up the wall.
Why did I buy another one, after only 6 -7 months? --, well , the dealer couldn't have been better and he sorted a deal from Honda, which meant I had to pay another £2400 less the £700 and fighting the b-ggers was costing me so much time, as I am freelance.
The paint on the 2nd was no better than the 1st.
Thats when I accepted that water based paint was here to stay and it will never be as good as the good old proper stuff.

alanwalne · 28th August 2008, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack The Lad.

alan, I had the same problem with the Preludes as we are having with our Civics, regarding stone chipping. Back in 98 and 99, 25k was a fair bit of dosh for a Honda and my fight with Honda UK lasted for months and months.
In the end , they sent me a "Good Will" cheque for £700, as back then you could deal with the MD directly and I was driving him up the wall.
Why did I buy another one, after only 6 -7 months? --, well , the dealer couldn't have been better and he sorted a deal from Honda, which meant I had to pay another £2400 less the £700 and fighting the b-ggers was costing me so much time, as I am freelance.
The paint on the 2nd was no better than the 1st.
Thats when I accepted that water based paint was here to stay and it will never be as good as the good old proper stuff.

Progress eh???

It shows an advantage of buying from a manufacturer still trying to get a foothold, rather than an established manufacturer.

Jack The Lad. · 28th August 2008, 17:31

Thats why I was so impressed with the build quality of the Kia Sportage, though I didn't make too much of a point about it.
I didn't want "Er Indoors" to get her own way and have one.

alanwalne · 29th August 2008, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack The Lad.

Thats why I was so impressed with the build quality of the Kia Sportage, though I didn't make too much of a point about it.
I didn't want "Er Indoors" to get her own way and have one.

But as stated elsewhere, in 3 years time when the Koreans have caught up, you will still have 4 years warranty left and you will then have to deal with a disinterested customer services department.

Sivad · 31st August 2008, 17:44

Here's a little tale.....

A friend has recently moved to Swindon to work (not for Honda) and before he went I said he should knock on the door and ask about my poor paint......

Anyway, a new guy has started where he works and it turns out he used to work on the Civic production line (won't say where in case he gets into trouble) so my mate starts ribbing him about the paint.....

His response? "well Honda know they have big problems but we were told not to talk about it...." he admitted the paint wasn't up to the job on the front end of most civics, although he wouldn't be drawn any further on details.

Good old HUK....

Doubtingthomas · 31st August 2008, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sivad

"well Honda know they have big problems but we were told not to talk about it...." he admitted the paint wasn't up to the job on the front end of most civics, although he wouldn't be drawn any further on details.

Good old HUK....

If this is true and I have no reason not to believe it, this only confirms what a lot of Civic owners already know. I suppose the question is, are Honda Civics more prone to stone chipping than their rivals, and if so why? All car manufacturers now use eco-friendly paint so is the problem more widespread than we realise? I hope I have not duplicated any similar previous posts.

Wheelchair · 31st August 2008, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

All car manufacturers now use eco-friendly paint

Honda use felt-tip pens!

alanwalne · 1st September 2008, 07:11

I remember when Tom Ford of 5th Gear tested the Civic (I think the review can be found on Youtube) when it first came out, he said that it had specialy hardened paint to REDUCE stonechipping.

Possibly the paint (especially Milano and NHB) is too hard so instead of chipping it cracks.....

xYKMFx chris · 1st September 2008, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheelchair

Honda use felt-tip pens!

hehe you made me giggle again!!! At the sight of the honda team colouring in cars.....actually i might just go and buy a clouring book now!!!! lol

Jayne x

Kremmen · 2nd September 2008, 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanwalne

I remember when Tom Ford of 5th Gear tested the Civic (I think the review can be found on Youtube) when it first came out, he said that it had specialy hardened paint to REDUCE stonechipping.

Possibly the paint (especially Milano and NHB) is too hard so instead of chipping it cracks.....

Back to the drawing board then. I still think the reports here of the very thin paint may be to blame. Plus a few/load more coats of laquer would have helped.

HappyMan · 2nd September 2008, 07:15

It is a shame that the paint work is so crap on such a great car. I have said previously that my car hadn't got that many chips, but sadly having already done 17,000km within a year I know have my fair share

. Looks like I will have to get out there with the Honda given felt pen

and fill them in.

Wheelchair · 2nd September 2008, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by xYKMFx chris

hehe you made me giggle again!!! At the sight of the honda team colouring in cars.....actually i might just go and buy a clouring book now!!!! lol

Jayne x

My stunning wit is in evidence again!!

Opelguy · 3rd September 2008, 17:23

Earlier it was speculated if galvanisation made any difference, and I just felt I had to add that one does not paint onto metal, but on a body-in-white. Then you add A-layer (base coat), B-layer (desired colour) and C-layer (clearcoat). Hondas problem is that for some reason the paint is too thin at about half the thicnkness (70 microns according to this thread) that you get on any other brand. Could be that more paint causes it to burn in the ovens or the paint runs too easily or the robots clog, any number of reasons are plausible.

In order to save time and money spent on manually correcting alot of cars, Honda may have adjusted their specification to allow for a thinner paint application. As far as the factory is concerned all is well as long as you meet specifications. In paint, if you get it wrong in the first place you're in trouble. Developing a new paint is a long process and can take up to four or even six years.

Sivad · 3rd September 2008, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opelguy

As far as the factory is concerned all is well as long as you meet specifications. In paint, if you get it wrong in the first place you're in trouble. Developing a new paint is a long process and can take up to four or even six years.

Note to Honda.....please don't decide to develope new brakes!!!

Kremmen · 4th September 2008, 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opelguy

Earlier it was speculated if galvanisation made any difference, and I just felt I had to add that one does not paint onto metal, but on a body-in-white. Then you add A-layer (base coat), B-layer (desired colour) and C-layer (clearcoat). Hondas problem is that for some reason the paint is too thin at about half the thicnkness (70 microns according to this thread) that you get on any other brand. Could be that more paint causes it to burn in the ovens or the paint runs too easily or the robots clog, any number of reasons are plausible.

In order to save time and money spent on manually correcting alot of cars, Honda may have adjusted their specification to allow for a thinner paint application. As far as the factory is concerned all is well as long as you meet specifications. In paint, if you get it wrong in the first place you're in trouble. Developing a new paint is a long process and can take up to four or even six years.

and that M'lud is the case for the prosecution !

Wheelchair · 4th September 2008, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opelguy

Developing a new paint is a long process and can take up to four or even six years.

Which is why Honda have bought up the country's supply of felt-tip pens and are furiously colouring in the bodywork.

It'll be wax crayons next!!!!

Jack The Lad. · 4th September 2008, 11:29

Four or even six years ??
The paint on my two 98 and 99 Preludes was just as bad.

Sivad · 4th September 2008, 12:52

You notice he said new paint not better paint.....

I rest my case..............

31st August 2008, 17:44	#207 (permalink)
Sivad Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 7th April 2008 Location: Tyne and Wear UK Posts: 154 Thanks: 6 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Here's a little tale..... A friend has recently moved to Swindon to work (not for Honda) and before he went I said he should knock on the door and ask about my poor paint...... Anyway, a new guy has started where he works and it turns out he used to work on the Civic production line (won't say where in case he gets into trouble) so my mate starts ribbing him about the paint..... His response? "well Honda know they have big problems but we were told not to talk about it...." he admitted the paint wasn't up to the job on the front end of most civics, although he wouldn't be drawn any further on details. Good old HUK.... Last edited by Sivad; 31st August 2008 at 17:46. Reason: can't type...

3rd September 2008, 17:23	#215 (permalink)
Opelguy Valve Cap Join Date: 4th January 2008 Location: Sweden Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Earlier it was speculated if galvanisation made any difference, and I just felt I had to add that one does not paint onto metal, but on a body-in-white. Then you add A-layer (base coat), B-layer (desired colour) and C-layer (clearcoat). Hondas problem is that for some reason the paint is too thin at about half the thicnkness (70 microns according to this thread) that you get on any other brand. Could be that more paint causes it to burn in the ovens or the paint runs too easily or the robots clog, any number of reasons are plausible. In order to save time and money spent on manually correcting alot of cars, Honda may have adjusted their specification to allow for a thinner paint application. As far as the factory is concerned all is well as long as you meet specifications. In paint, if you get it wrong in the first place you're in trouble. Developing a new paint is a long process and can take up to four or even six years. Last edited by Opelguy; 3rd September 2008 at 17:31.

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This thread is about: Stone chips - Should we open the floodgates? (well they kinda ask for it), it's in Bugs, faults and irritations at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; More than 8 years ago alan. Honda were using water based paint on my two Preludes in 98 and 99 and before that. I blame ...

27th August 2008, 22:17	#201 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 1,905 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts iTrader: (0)	More than 8 years ago alan. Honda were using water based paint on my two Preludes in 98 and 99 and before that. I blame Brown for the roads. He should be laying the tarmac, not running the country.

28th August 2008, 11:07	#203 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 1,905 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts iTrader: (0)	alan, I had the same problem with the Preludes as we are having with our Civics, regarding stone chipping. Back in 98 and 99, 25k was a fair bit of dosh for a Honda and my fight with Honda UK lasted for months and months. In the end , they sent me a "Good Will" cheque for £700, as back then you could deal with the MD directly and I was driving him up the wall. Why did I buy another one, after only 6 -7 months? --, well , the dealer couldn't have been better and he sorted a deal from Honda, which meant I had to pay another £2400 less the £700 and fighting the b-ggers was costing me so much time, as I am freelance. The paint on the 2nd was no better than the 1st. Thats when I accepted that water based paint was here to stay and it will never be as good as the good old proper stuff.

28th August 2008, 17:31	#205 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 1,905 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts iTrader: (0)	Thats why I was so impressed with the build quality of the Kia Sportage, though I didn't make too much of a point about it. I didn't want "Er Indoors" to get her own way and have one.

1st September 2008, 07:11	#210 (permalink)
alanwalne Who needs a 4x4?? Rocketship door handle Join Date: 11th June 2007 Location: Kent Posts: 1,755 Thanks: 24 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts iTrader: (0)	I remember when Tom Ford of 5th Gear tested the Civic (I think the review can be found on Youtube) when it first came out, he said that it had specialy hardened paint to REDUCE stonechipping. Possibly the paint (especially Milano and NHB) is too hard so instead of chipping it cracks.....

2nd September 2008, 07:15	#213 (permalink)
HappyMan Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 16th August 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 3,594 Thanks: 30 Thanked 91 Times in 85 Posts iTrader: (0)	It is a shame that the paint work is so crap on such a great car. I have said previously that my car hadn't got that many chips, but sadly having already done 17,000km within a year I know have my fair share . Looks like I will have to get out there with the Honda given felt pen and fill them in.

4th September 2008, 11:29	#219 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 1,905 Thanks: 8 Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts iTrader: (0)	Four or even six years ?? The paint on my two 98 and 99 Preludes was just as bad.

4th September 2008, 12:52	#220 (permalink)
Sivad Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 7th April 2008 Location: Tyne and Wear UK Posts: 154 Thanks: 6 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	You notice he said new paint *not* better paint..... I rest my case..............