Paint Stone chips - Should we open the floodgates? (well they kinda ask for it)

[Sivad]

A while ago I sent a missif to Honda Customer Care Europe about some issues I was having - anyway things moved on and HUK sorted the issue for me and I forgot about my e-mail.

Anyway, I got a reply today (all polite and stuff) but the main point that has puzzled me is the response about paint - basically it implies they haven't had many complaints....

Here's the part of the e-mail I refer to...

We are always happy to receive feedback from our customers regarding the design and specification of our range. Without feedback such as yours we would not be in a position to produce vehicles that appeal to a broad range of customers. This is essential to a successful manufacturer and is frequently reflected in a range of motoring magazines and surveys.

With regards to the specific paint query, Honda (UK) sells over 100,000 cars a year. We use leading paint application techniques and also high grade paint for all of our vehicles.
The percentage of paint related complaints are nominal; this is essential to a successful manufacturer and is frequently reflected in a range of motoring magazines and surveys. Such information is used by our Product Planning department in conjunction with customer clinics in order that our models reflect the requirements for both our customers and the current market.

I would recommend asking your local Honda dealership to take paint thickness of the vehicle. This will determine if the correct level of paint has been applied. All vehicles are subject to the standard stone chipping etc but if an incorrect level of paint has been applied this could enhance the damage caused. You can take your vehicle to any Honda Dealership of your choice.

Now, I wonder if they are open to criticism as they suggest should this now be the starting point? Should Civinfo members join forces and provide a single collected crtitique of the Civic range?

What d'yall think?

[brawnr]

According to the survey 4.64% of us say the paintwork is 'awful', and 13.62% say it's 'poor'.

I personally find the paintwork well below average. It's noticeably thin and patchy, and chips very easily. There are other cars in the family (a Ford and a Seat) that of the same age and mileage, yet do not have ANY stone chips. My car has half a dozen at the last count. The painwork quality is the only thing that will make me think twice about buying another Honda.

I wonder how many compaints that we raise with the dealers actually get passed back to head office. The dealers must be aware of the problem as the Hondas they get in for part-ex are covered in chips.

Unfortunatly it seems that the only thing that will force the issue is bad publicity and a drop in resale values.

[fickel]

I had a similar problem with a Mazda and I suspect that all big manufacturer H/Q's are the same.
In my case the dealer damaged the paint.

Forget them resolving it as they will just pass it back to the dealers (if you ever get them to acknowledge the problem)
Forget Trading Standards as they are slow and won't put there hand in their pocket to prosecute. They will try and conflict resolve mediate.
They will after they fail offer to give you a statement for when you take out a private small claims prosecution.

I would contact Auto express, send them photos and tell them that it's not an uncommon problem

Or if you are cheeky, ring up Honda UK and purport to be following up a story for a disgrundled Honda owning Auto Express reader.
I know what I'd do.

Good luck **

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by Sivad

We are always happy to receive feedback from our customers regarding the design and specification of our range. Without feedback such as yours we would not be in a position to produce vehicles that appeal to a broad range of customers. This is essential to a successful manufacturer and is frequently reflected in a range of motoring magazines and surveys.

With regards to the specific paint query, Honda (UK) sells over 100,000 cars a year. We use leading paint application techniques and also high grade paint for all of our vehicles.
The percentage of paint related complaints are nominal; this is essential to a successful manufacturer and is frequently reflected in a range of motoring magazines and surveys. Such information is used by our Product Planning department in conjunction with customer clinics in order that our models reflect the requirements for both our customers and the current market.

I would recommend asking your local Honda dealership to take paint thickness of the vehicle. This will determine if the correct level of paint has been applied. All vehicles are subject to the standard stone chipping etc but if an incorrect level of paint has been applied this could enhance the damage caused. You can take your vehicle to any Honda Dealership of your choice.

Talk about an automated response... Looks like this letter has just been put together by some low level flunky at Honda HQ from a list of "Approved Customer Responses"...

They even used the same sentence twice...

-H

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by fickel

I had a similar problem with a Mazda and I suspect that all big manufacturer H/Q's are the same.
In my case the dealer damaged the paint.

Forget them resolving it as they will just pass it back to the dealers (if you ever get them to acknowledge the problem)
Forget Trading Standards as they are slow and won't put there hand in their pocket to prosecute. They will try and conflict resolve mediate.
They will after they fail offer to give you a statement for when you take out a private small claims prosecution.

I would contact Auto express, send them photos and tell them that it's not an uncommon problem

Or if you are cheeky, ring up Honda UK and purport to be following up a story for a disgrundled Honda owning Auto Express reader.
I know what I'd do.

Good luck **

So, you know out of the thousands of cars that are built in Swindon, just how many have paint defects or just the people who've come on here and made a comment???

I'd love to see you try. know who to ring?? know which department to contact??? know which format press contacts/follow ups are made in??? thought not.

As you put it, good luck mate

[Topcat]

The response given by HUK is no great surprise is it? I battled with them for over a year with this issue and finally gave up because they knew I didnt have the finances to push it further.

Their required minimum thickness is extremely thin (70 microns) which may be fine on the roof but it should certainly be much thicker on the bonnet an lower panels that are more likely to take impact of stones. They say that the build up of layers are irrelevant as long as the overal thickness is at least 70, some of the parts tested on my car were just on 70 and a couple were slightly below it made no difference to them.

As for the the paint hardness/softness their "experts" carried out a test which showed that my paint was right at the bottom of the scale only just on the required minimum again it made no difference to them.

If the paint being used today is of less quality on all cars then why is the paint on my Focus more durable?

How many times have people on this forum said that Honda say they have had no complaints about a particular problem when we all know they have had loads! This is just another problem HUK are sweeping under the carpet it wouldnt endanger a life so they do not need to do anything about it.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

So, you know out of the thousands of cars that are built in Swindon, just how many have paint defects or just the people who've come on here and made a comment???

I'd love to see you try. know who to ring?? know which department to contact??? know which format press contacts/follow ups are made in??? thought not.

As you put it, good luck mate

I happen to be good friends with a few Honda employees at different levels and in different dealerships and they are quite shocked themselves at all the problems the civic has had so NH Dan are you floating around with your head stuck in the clouds oblivious to it all (highly unlikely).

I have so much more respect for people who try to help rather than shoot people down with an aggresive attitude when they dont like whats being said.

[HappyMan]

Let's try and keep on topic and not get personal.

I do think we have to accept, even those who haven't experienced any, that there are problems with the civic and for some major problems.

[x Dr Vodka x]

how about BBC watch dog ???? It worked with MS XBox 360 problems.... they backed down to the buyers,

[simon1]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

So, you know out of the thousands of cars that are built in Swindon, just how many have paint defects or just the people who've come on here and made a comment???

I'd love to see you try. know who to ring?? know which department to contact??? know which format press contacts/follow ups are made in??? thought not.

As you put it, good luck mate

I am surprised, Dan that you don't expect there to be a large number of professions and contacts represented by the high number of members of this forum.

I would be able to know who to ring. I can find out which department to contact. I can put an inquiry in the right format that press contacts are made. I have done it before with a large international finance company and was successful.

I work in the mainstream media.

At this stage I also have no problem with my paintwork and I hope it remains that way. But please don't assume that there is no-one here who has the means or contacts to press the right buttons.

[copland]

Originally Posted by simon1

I work in the mainstream media.
But please don't assume that there is no-one here who has the means or contacts to press the right buttons.

Nice answer - you can never assume anything, determination is what makes changes happen! Customers vote with their feet - how many people on here have sold their Civics due to problems, how many are not documented via forums such as this so no-one is aware? The cars are great design but the quality can be improved but that will never happen if people don't complain to the right people.

[fickel]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

So, you know out of the thousands of cars that are built in Swindon, just how many have paint defects or just the people who've come on here and made a comment???

I'd love to see you try. know who to ring?? know which department to contact??? know which format press contacts/follow ups are made in??? thought not.

As you put it, good luck mate

I think it was said tongue in cheek

[paint clip]

I've just had a letter from Honda UK. It is not the standard Honda letter, it had the inspection report for the paint on our RED Civic. And it states there is nothing wrong with the paint but the 100+ stone chips is due to HAZARD OF ROAD USE.
The car is only 3 months old but has enough stone chips to be 10 years old. And it hasn't even been down a road that has been surface dressed with chippings yet!
Honda were also very upset because I had a notice in the car window which had Honda Paint Nightmare on it. They asked me to take it down. So I have, and replaced it with a larger one removing the Honda name and putting CAR PAINT NIGHTMARE.

[HappyMan]

why would the sign be a problem to Honda?

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by paint clip

Honda were also very upset because I had a notice in the car window which had Honda Paint Nightmare on it. They asked me to take it down. So I have, and replaced it with a larger one removing the Honda name and putting CAR PAINT NIGHTMARE.

Why have you removed the word HONDA I would put it back - I like your style good for you

Sorry to hear about your paintwork though

[paint clip]

In the letter it state " Honda (Uk) take any matter which is of defamatory nature againt our product extremely seriously"
So I have change the wording. I do think Honda don't like that fact that I have a poster on the car. As too many people can see there is a problem with the car.
Apart from the paint, it's a great car. We also have a 4 year old Type S Civic that has done 42,000 miles and only a few stone chips. But it's silver.
They are great cars, Honda just has to admit they is a problem some car paint.

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by paint clip

In the letter it state " Honda (Uk) take any matter which is of defamatory nature againt our product extremely seriously"
So I have change the wording. I do think Honda don't like that fact that I have a poster on the car. As too many people can see there is a problem with the car.
Apart from the paint, it's a great car. We also have a 4 year old Type S Civic that has done 42,000 miles and only a few stone chips. But it's silver.
They are great cars, Honda just has to admit they is a problem some car paint.

Is it defamatory or fact regarding the paint

[civicfan]

Have these guys ever heard of the right of free speech?
If they force anyone to change their free expression it is censorship, and can be taken quite far for them when it comes to court. They can make such demands against a competitor, but not a private person. Instead they might try to take him seriously, for a change

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by paint clip

In the letter it state " Honda (Uk) take any matter which is of defamatory nature againt our product extremely seriously"
Honda just has to admit they is a problem some car paint.

What can they do about it? Nothing, you are merely warning others that there is a problem with the paint.

You are right Honda do need to recognise that some cars missed out on a few layers of paint.

[cb550]

Originally Posted by paint clip

In the letter it state " Honda (Uk) take any matter which is of defamatory nature againt our product extremely seriously"
So I have change the wording. I do think Honda don't like that fact that I have a poster on the car. As too many people can see there is a problem with the car.
Apart from the paint, it's a great car. We also have a 4 year old Type S Civic that has done 42,000 miles and only a few stone chips. But it's silver.
They are great cars, Honda just has to admit they is a problem some car paint.

A threatening letter from a smiling,happy,butter wo'nt melt in the mouth global manufacturer, to a private person who happens to believe and choses to make known a grievance he has with the quality of their product he has paid good money for beggars belief.

It follows then that every negative statement made on this site is likely to incurr the wrath of Honda with a responce to retract it due to its defamatory nature.

Honda should apologise unreservedly,surely a PR disaster where public relations counts above all.