Brakes Brakes being applied fully whilst brake pedal not!

generationgav · 5th January 2007, 01:08

OK, well I've had my first "oh sugar" moment in my Civic.
I was driving to Sainsburys about 10pm one fateful night, it was wet outside but it's only 1/2 a mile journey (OK, I know...I often do walk it, but it's wet/cold and not the nicest of areas)
As I come to the left turn in to the supermarket I was going slightly fast for conditions probably (it's off this little quiet road, I was doing about 20) so I gently applied my brakes for the left turn.
I heard a screech as my car came to a complete halt!
At first I thought I'd hit something, but double checking revealed nothing for quite a distance around (luckily also no cars behind) and I realised it was just my car applying it's brakes fully.
The next time I tried the brakes they worked normally, but the pedal seemed extremely stiff to push, I drove it very carefully around Sainsburys car park and then drove the 1/2 mile home doing about 10mph! Both of which seemed absolutly normal.
It's going in to the garage tomorrow anyway and I'm just hoping I don't have to go and organise my own hire car to get me to work.

Bungle · 5th January 2007, 08:20

Sounds like VSA having a moment, but it shouldn't do that!

Get it checked, next time there could be a heavy tailgating you!

I'm glad the conditions at the time meant you were not put into harms way!

generationgav · 5th January 2007, 08:27

to be honest bungle, they were my thoughts entirely. It also had that "vsa judder" about it, I wish I'd looked to see if the vsa lights came on or not. Anyway I'm at my stealers now, am I the first to be posting from a honda dealers on a pda??

generationgav · 5th January 2007, 14:47

OK; some serious advice needed here guys.
My Honda dealer have tested the car and found there's nothing wrong with it (apart from the shocks and the steering) but the brakes had no faults.
So what do I do now? I'm slightly worried that if it's happened once then it'll happen again. I don't know if I can do anything about it or whether just to accept it and hope that it doesn't happen.

Bog · 5th January 2007, 15:05

I know it sounds silly, but how fast did you push the brake pedal? Most modern cars with Emergency Brake Assist assume rapid pedal depression = emergency and takes over applying full braking force. Could it be your car/all Civics are too sensitive? My old Laguna could be a bit unforgiving at times!

Just a thought.

allan40alt · 5th January 2007, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bog

I know it sounds silly, but how fast did you push the brake pedal? Most modern cars with Emergency Brake Assist assume rapid pedal depression = emergency and takes over applying full braking force. Could it be your car/all Civics are too sensitive? My old Laguna could be a bit unforgiving at times!

Just a thought.

You may be spot-on there, Bog. Applying the brake fast, or last minute, could be sensed as an 'emergency stop' by the EBA.

generationgav · 5th January 2007, 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bog

I know it sounds silly, but how fast did you push the brake pedal? Most modern cars with Emergency Brake Assist assume rapid pedal depression = emergency and takes over applying full braking force. Could it be your car/all Civics are too sensitive? My old Laguna could be a bit unforgiving at times!

Just a thought.

You know what? That might be the case.
I didn't apply the brake hard, but I guess that it was quite fast, I did leave it a bit late to brake, but I only pressed it in half way. I was wondering at first if I'd just braked far too hard, but then I realised for that kind of stop there was no way I'd hit it that hard.
As the 2nd time I broke (very gently) the brake was very stiff and didn't go very far down I was also wondering if it was like that before, but I'm still not convinced that what I did should have made the car brake so sharply.

I'm going on a test-drive with the mechanic tomorrow morning to see if anything can be gathered from what happened.

PTR · 5th January 2007, 16:07

don't worry it was only the VSA emergency brake!

(I read it on the service CD for the Civ)
it is so that the VSA learns how you brake. If you brake always smoothly and from the gas you step slowly on the brake it learns it, adapts to your driving style.
But if once (like in your case) you do everything faster than you used to then it will be detected by the VSA as emergency brakeing. that's it!
probably it sounds stupid how it works but on the other hand it has the advantage that emergency brakeing will be detected earlier and in serious cases it efficiently reduces the braking distance wich is good, important!

everything what you can do: brake always normaly as you always do and if somehow the emergency brake turns on again simply release the pedal and it will turn off immediately (if you want!)
that's 100% normal, if the brakeforce is too much you release the pedal anyway!

so don't worry, now you know what was going on...
enjoy your car!

generationgav · 5th January 2007, 16:20

If that's the case then thanks! I guess it wasn't a completely wasted trip I guess as I've got my shocks sorted and steering recall ordered.

To be honest, the only reason I was driving a bit harder than normal/probably I should have is because it was on kind of an industrial estate with no cars around I was driving it slightly faster than I would. But I wouldn't say I was driving stupidly; just a bit off normal driving conditions on the road. Therefore if there was anything behind me I'd have been more careful and it wouldn't have happened.

Thanks guys, I really would be panicking if it wasn't for you lot.

And driving a VW Polo REALLY makes me appreciate my Civic.

richierich · 6th January 2007, 12:15

It is a weird feeling when the brake assist does actually assist you, I had done a driver imrpovement course and the instructor suggested we all find a lonely piece of road and learn how our cars behaved under heavy braking, and I was amazed, 40mph, hit the brakes hard, the Laguna stood on its nose I released the pedal and the car kept braking for a split second, apparantly its designed to do that cos a lot of people when they do brake hard and the ABS kicks in tend to panic and take their foot off, obviously if you are rapidly approaching a queue of traffic thats the worst thing to do, clever these machines eh?

trax · 28th April 2008, 22:33

I was driving into town this evening, going downhill approaching a roundabout. I gently pressed the brake pedal in my habitual way, but after a couple of seconds I realised there was no breaking effect. I looked at the brake pedal to make sure I was actaully pressing it. Eventually, to avoid stationary cars at the roundabout I had to pull over to the other side of the road and stop my Civic by pulling the handbrake as hard as possible! I had pressed the brake pedal 3 times but with no reponse from the brakes! My car will be into the dealer again. I have had a flat battery on two occasions and have been given the guff about leaving lights on when I have parked my car (present mileage is 4800).
I have almost completely lost confidence in my car.

NEEMSTAR · 28th April 2008, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by trax

I was driving into town this evening, going downhill approaching a roundabout. I gently pressed the brake pedal in my habitual way, but after a couple of seconds I realised there was no breaking effect. I looked at the brake pedal to make sure I was actaully pressing it. Eventually, to avoid stationary cars at the roundabout I had to pull over to the other side of the road and stop my Civic by pulling the handbrake as hard as possible! I had pressed the brake pedal 3 times but with no reponse from the brakes! My car will be into the dealer again. I have had a flat battery on two occasions and have been given the guff about leaving lights on when I have parked my car (present mileage is 4800).
I have almost completely lost confidence in my car.

wow you might want to make a new thread about this and keep us informed on what your dealer says
did the brakes work fine after this?
that is very worrying and i hope it gets sorted for you fella

oh and welcome to civinfo

alanwalne · 28th April 2008, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by generationgav

If that's the case then thanks! I guess it wasn't a completely wasted trip I guess as I've got my shocks sorted and steering recall ordered.

To be honest, the only reason I was driving a bit harder than normal/probably I should have is because it was on kind of an industrial estate with no cars around I was driving it slightly faster than I would. But I wouldn't say I was driving stupidly; just a bit off normal driving conditions on the road. Therefore if there was anything behind me I'd have been more careful and it wouldn't have happened.

Thanks guys, I really would be panicking if it wasn't for you lot.

And driving a VW Polo REALLY makes me appreciate my Civic.

If your shocks are not tiptop on a poor road surface, and a wheel skips off the road while braking, that will cause the car to acitvate all electronic devices.

trax · 28th April 2008, 22:57

After the brake failure I was pretty shaken but decided to drive home slowly with VSA turned off. The brakes worked fine. But the feeling of suddenly having no brakes is frightening. This a major safety issue.

5th January 2007, 01:08	#1 (permalink)
generationgav Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 29th May 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 809 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Brakes being applied fully whilst brake pedal not! OK, well I've had my first "oh sugar" moment in my Civic. I was driving to Sainsburys about 10pm one fateful night, it was wet outside but it's only 1/2 a mile journey (OK, I know...I often do walk it, but it's wet/cold and not the nicest of areas) As I come to the left turn in to the supermarket I was going slightly fast for conditions probably (it's off this little quiet road, I was doing about 20) so I gently applied my brakes for the left turn. I heard a screech as my car came to a complete halt! At first I thought I'd hit something, but double checking revealed nothing for quite a distance around (luckily also no cars behind) and I realised it was just my car applying it's brakes fully. The next time I tried the brakes they worked normally, but the pedal seemed extremely stiff to push, I drove it very carefully around Sainsburys car park and then drove the 1/2 mile home doing about 10mph! Both of which seemed absolutly normal. It's going in to the garage tomorrow anyway and I'm just hoping I don't have to go and organise my own hire car to get me to work.

28th April 2008, 22:33	#11 (permalink)
trax Valve Cap Join Date: 28th April 2008 Location: UK Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Brake failure with VSA on I was driving into town this evening, going downhill approaching a roundabout. I gently pressed the brake pedal in my habitual way, but after a couple of seconds I realised there was no breaking effect. I looked at the brake pedal to make sure I was actaully pressing it. Eventually, to avoid stationary cars at the roundabout I had to pull over to the other side of the road and stop my Civic by pulling the handbrake as hard as possible! I had pressed the brake pedal 3 times but with no reponse from the brakes! My car will be into the dealer again. I have had a flat battery on two occasions and have been given the guff about leaving lights on when I have parked my car (present mileage is 4800). I have almost completely lost confidence in my car.

28th April 2008, 22:57	#14 (permalink)
trax Valve Cap Join Date: 28th April 2008 Location: UK Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	No brakes with VSA After the brake failure I was pretty shaken but decided to drive home slowly with VSA turned off. The brakes worked fine. But the feeling of suddenly having no brakes is frightening. This a major safety issue.

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This thread is about: Brakes being applied fully whilst brake pedal not!, it's in Bugs, faults and irritations at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; OK, well I've had my first "oh sugar" moment in my Civic. I was driving to Sainsburys about 10pm one fateful night, it was wet ...

5th January 2007, 08:20	#2 (permalink)
Bungle Rocketship door handle Join Date: 3rd July 2006 Location: SE London/Kent Posts: 1,220 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Sounds like VSA having a moment, but it shouldn't do that! Get it checked, next time there could be a heavy tailgating you! I'm glad the conditions at the time meant you were not put into harms way!

5th January 2007, 08:27	#3 (permalink)
generationgav Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 29th May 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 809 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	to be honest bungle, they were my thoughts entirely. It also had that "vsa judder" about it, I wish I'd looked to see if the vsa lights came on or not. Anyway I'm at my stealers now, am I the first to be posting from a honda dealers on a pda??

5th January 2007, 14:47	#4 (permalink)
generationgav Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 29th May 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 809 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	OK; some serious advice needed here guys. My Honda dealer have tested the car and found there's nothing wrong with it (apart from the shocks and the steering) but the brakes had no faults. So what do I do now? I'm slightly worried that if it's happened once then it'll happen again. I don't know if I can do anything about it or whether just to accept it and hope that it doesn't happen.

5th January 2007, 15:05	#5 (permalink)
Bog Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th October 2006 Location: Romford, Essex Posts: 900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	I know it sounds silly, but how fast did you push the brake pedal? Most modern cars with Emergency Brake Assist assume rapid pedal depression = emergency and takes over applying full braking force. Could it be your car/all Civics are too sensitive? My old Laguna could be a bit unforgiving at times! Just a thought.

5th January 2007, 16:07	#8 (permalink)
PTR Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 4th October 2006 Location: Hungary Posts: 668 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	don't worry it was only the VSA emergency brake! (I read it on the service CD for the Civ) it is so that the VSA learns how you brake. If you brake always smoothly and from the gas you step slowly on the brake it learns it, adapts to your driving style. But if once (like in your case) you do everything faster than you used to then it will be detected by the VSA as emergency brakeing. that's it! probably it sounds stupid how it works but on the other hand it has the advantage that emergency brakeing will be detected earlier and in serious cases it efficiently reduces the braking distance wich is good, important! everything what you can do: brake always normaly as you always do and if somehow the emergency brake turns on again simply release the pedal and it will turn off immediately (if you want!) that's 100% normal, if the brakeforce is too much you release the pedal anyway! so don't worry, now you know what was going on... enjoy your car!

5th January 2007, 16:20	#9 (permalink)
generationgav Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 29th May 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 809 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	If that's the case then thanks! I guess it wasn't a completely wasted trip I guess as I've got my shocks sorted and steering recall ordered. To be honest, the only reason I was driving a bit harder than normal/probably I should have is because it was on kind of an industrial estate with no cars around I was driving it slightly faster than I would. But I wouldn't say I was driving stupidly; just a bit off normal driving conditions on the road. Therefore if there was anything behind me I'd have been more careful and it wouldn't have happened. Thanks guys, I really would be panicking if it wasn't for you lot. And driving a VW Polo REALLY makes me appreciate my Civic.

6th January 2007, 12:15	#10 (permalink)
richierich Smell My Cheese! Rocketship door handle Join Date: 17th May 2006 Location: Bicester, Oxfordshire Posts: 1,847 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	It is a weird feeling when the brake assist does actually assist you, I had done a driver imrpovement course and the instructor suggested we all find a lonely piece of road and learn how our cars behaved under heavy braking, and I was amazed, 40mph, hit the brakes hard, the Laguna stood on its nose I released the pedal and the car kept braking for a split second, apparantly its designed to do that cos a lot of people when they do brake hard and the ABS kicks in tend to panic and take their foot off, obviously if you are rapidly approaching a queue of traffic thats the worst thing to do, clever these machines eh?