Handbrake Parking brake fault - Page 5

Pottsy · 25th August 2007, 13:18

Yes, you'd think so.

hb3.gif

pcr · 25th August 2007, 13:54

About the way the brake completely releases after a minute or so.

I think I said this before but I believe the problem is that the realease button is very sensitive.

If when applying the brake the first finger is inadvertently underneath the release button, maybe just touching it, then there is a high chance of half-engaging the locking mechanism, which then springs free shortly afterwards.
Try it, mine does it, and so did a loan car.

Solution,

Keep fingers away from the button when pulling up that last click.

It makes sense to me that leaving the car in gear will prevent runaway, but as each cylinder in turn looses compression the car will slowly chug down the hill, if it is steep.

Turn steering in towards curb.

Given that anyone who is unaware of this possible issue and who applies the brake in a particular way, may be caught out, I would think there are some safety concerns here.

Brodick · 25th August 2007, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWH

Although I am not going to argue with those numbers, surely it is the same design of handbrake on all Euro-Civics.

I am sure it is FWH -but as I have said before - no problems
here and I know I am not alone

So why is it that onl some cars are affected

PCR could have a point

FWH · 25th August 2007, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

I think I said this before but I believe the problem is that the realease button is very sensitive.

I was definatly not (100% sure) not touching the handbrake lever at all when it went "TWANG" and released it self. I have tried recreating the problem by touching the release button, but have not managed.

vtec-hungry · 25th August 2007, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/survey....results&sid=28

Attachment 5374

Attachment 5375

that is zily weird? y is it like so? just weird. what do you think pottsy, I really want to know what you think of this, I mean it doesnt make much sense? dd they really skimp out on the handbreak design???

vtec-hungry · 25th August 2007, 15:05

its weird right had a dream last night about drivig ctr and had this hand break prob, reading too much of these threads! I mean this is a serious issue here, so far to it seems no ones injured but potentially this could be fatal, HONDA FIX IT, IT IS YOUR OBLIGATION TO EVEN AFTER SCAMMING US!

Pottsy · 25th August 2007, 15:21

vtec-h,

Not sure what you're saying. 2% of R owners have an unspecified problem with the handbrake, and none have seen fit to even take it back to the dealer.

A small number of non-R owners have reported the lever pinging off in an unrepeatable fashion. If you leave your car in gear (which you should always do in any car that has rear discs, because the parking brakes are weak and prone to relaxing as the discs cool) then you'll be fine.

I'm sure Honda are looking at the problem with the rare pinging-off cases, but for the time being there's nothing to worry about if you leave your car in reverse.

vtec-hungry · 25th August 2007, 16:01

......................hopfully wont affect me whn i get my brand new ctr end sept, CANT WAIT and I sear if the handbreak doesnt work im gonna freak! will hndbreak turns still be ok?

Brodick · 25th August 2007, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtec-hungry

its weird right had a dream last night about drivig ctr and had this hand break prob, reading too much of these threads! I mean this is a serious issue here, so far to it seems no ones injured but potentially this could be fatal, HONDA FIX IT, IT IS YOUR OBLIGATION TO EVEN AFTER SCAMMING US!

Vtec H you really need to calm down

A few owners have some problems with their handbrake - without knowing the cause you cannot make such statements as above

FWH · 25th August 2007, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtec-hungry

will hndbreak turns still be ok?

yes

pcr · 25th August 2007, 17:41

OK, please humour me for a while with this one.

This is how my car is, how is yours ?.

If I grap hold of the handbrake lever, but inadvertently my my first finger is under the release button, and pull up, nine times out of ten the brake will not engage. This is without trying to depress the button in any way.

Measuring it, holding the button depressed by little more than 1mm prevents it engaging. It is the ease with which the brake can be made to not fully engage that I think makes half-engaging more likely.

I am convinced the brake can be half-engaged, how else could it ping off ?.

Now if due to tolerances, the amount the release button needs depressing varies, then some cars will be more susceptible than others.

FWH · 25th August 2007, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

If I grap hold of the handbrake lever, but inadvertently my my first finger is under the release button, and pull up, nine times out of ten the brake will not engage. This is without trying to depress the button in any way.

Mine does not do this. I cannot in any way I have tried create a situtation where it does not engage due to my outside actions.
I have tried pulling a different angles and other stuff I could think of too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

I am convinced the brake can be half-engaged

Quite possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

Now if due to tolerances, the amount the release button needs depressing varies, then some cars will be more susceptible than others.

Agreed.

Pottsy · 25th August 2007, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

OK, please humour me for a while with this one.

This is how my car is, how is yours ?.

Good thanks!

If I give the lever a good pull (the spec is 44 lbf) I get about 8 clicks. So if I had a problem with the ratchet, then one of the 7 remaining clicks will get it.

I have tried to simulate it, but if I miss a ratchet click it just gets caught by the next one down. Each click is pretty positive, with the button moving about 3-4 mm.

Am I going to have to pull my car apart to have a look at the ratchet mechanism?

pcr · 25th August 2007, 18:29

Thanks for that Pottsy. You see, on mine the clicks are positive enough, but the button movement is barely more than 1mm.

Anyway, I've let the good lady know that she needs to apply a force of 44lbf, to which she replied "........................................". Frankie Howard would have been proud of that line.

HappyMan · 25th August 2007, 19:47

I have been driving for about 16 years and mainly in the UK, but now I live in Poland and they don't use the Handbrake. I was surprised by this but very often when I have taken my car to the dealer for a service ( skoda at present ) the car is parked in gear without the handbrake. My father in law never aplies the handbrake just leaves it in gear unless he is on a hill.

It is interesting how I will fair in the Civic as I have to apply the gear into reverse at present due to a security device that is applied to the gears to stop people driving away with your car. The civic can't have this device so I am wondering if I will naturally put it into gear or not!!!

But by the sounds of this post I better had keep the habit

FWH · 25th August 2007, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

Thanks for that Pottsy. You see, on mine the clicks are positive enough, but the button movement is barely more than 1mm.

Anyway, I've let the good lady know that she needs to apply a force of 44lbf, to which she replied "........................................". Frankie Howard would have been proud of that line.

Been testing some more.
Obviously pushing the button in far enough ensures that it does not catch, but this is definatly more than 1mm. I would say around 3-4mm also.

When mine "TWANGED" it was pulled well far up (didn´t count number of clicks though).

If you don´t want to take yours apart Pottsy, you could always fly over here and dismantle mine.

pcr · 25th August 2007, 21:19

FWH,

We seem to having different experiences here, which the difference in button movement probably accounts for, mine is definately 1mm only.

Here's how I can reproduce the problem, it's hard to explain in words, more a question of feel. Apply the brake hard, the harder the better. Now ease it upwards just enough to reduce the pressure, while very gently depressing the button. You should be able to feel the teeth not fully engage. Catch it right, and it can be made to stay in this position. Now, give it a tap and it flies off.

I must say, I have no idea if this is better or worse than any other car's handbrake, and am happy enough just to take care when applying it. I do feel though that it is an issue for the unwary, and would be very annoyed to be caught out in the manner descibed by Ikes earlier.

Pottsy · 25th August 2007, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

Now, give it a tap and it flies off.

pcr - I assume you have pulled it for about 8 clicks worth when you tap it. So my question is: when it flies off, do none of the 7 other clicks on the ratchet stop it?

pcr · 25th August 2007, 21:38

Pottsy, yes it is applied very hard, and no, it does not engage a lower tooth but flies right to the bottom, very quickly and with a lot of force. When it is appied this hard, it seems more likely to hold the teeth in this half-engaged position, I guess due to higher friction between the teeth. Maybe some grease is called for.

Pottsy · 26th August 2007, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcr

no, it does not engage a lower tooth but flies right to the bottom

Got to be faulty. The whole point of the ratchet is that it can't do that! If I press the button in whilst pulling the lever as hard as I can, and then I release both at the same time, it never gets past a single notch on the ratchet, however many times I try.

I need to do some dismantling!

I'm hoping the lever trim comes off with these clips here:

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This thread is about: Parking brake fault, it's in Bugs, faults and irritations at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Yes, you'd think so. hb3.gif...

25th August 2007, 13:18	#81 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,098 Thanks: 18 Thanked 112 Times in 64 Posts iTrader: (0)	Yes, you'd think so. hb3.gif

25th August 2007, 13:54	#82 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	About the way the brake completely releases after a minute or so. I think I said this before but I believe the problem is that the realease button is very sensitive. If when applying the brake the first finger is inadvertently underneath the release button, maybe just touching it, then there is a high chance of half-engaging the locking mechanism, which then springs free shortly afterwards. Try it, mine does it, and so did a loan car. Solution, Keep fingers away from the button when pulling up that last click. It makes sense to me that leaving the car in gear will prevent runaway, but as each cylinder in turn looses compression the car will slowly chug down the hill, if it is steep. Turn steering in towards curb. Given that anyone who is unaware of this possible issue and who applies the brake in a particular way, may be caught out, I would think there are some safety concerns here.

25th August 2007, 15:05	#86 (permalink)
vtec-hungry Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 17th August 2007 Location: Blackpool Posts: 408 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	its weird right had a dream last night about drivig ctr and had this hand break prob, reading too much of these threads! I mean this is a serious issue here, so far to it seems no ones injured but potentially this could be fatal, HONDA FIX IT, IT IS YOUR OBLIGATION TO EVEN AFTER SCAMMING US!

25th August 2007, 15:21	#87 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo master Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 5,098 Thanks: 18 Thanked 112 Times in 64 Posts iTrader: (0)	vtec-h, Not sure what you're saying. 2% of R owners have an unspecified problem with the handbrake, and none have seen fit to even take it back to the dealer. A small number of non-R owners have reported the lever pinging off in an unrepeatable fashion. If you leave your car in gear (which you should always do in any car that has rear discs, because the parking brakes are weak and prone to relaxing as the discs cool) then you'll be fine. I'm sure Honda are looking at the problem with the rare pinging-off cases, but for the time being there's nothing to worry about if you leave your car in reverse.

25th August 2007, 16:01	#88 (permalink)
vtec-hungry Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 17th August 2007 Location: Blackpool Posts: 408 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	......................hopfully wont affect me whn i get my brand new ctr end sept, CANT WAIT and I sear if the handbreak doesnt work im gonna freak! will hndbreak turns still be ok?

25th August 2007, 17:41	#91 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	OK, please humour me for a while with this one. This is how my car is, how is yours ?. If I grap hold of the handbrake lever, but inadvertently my my first finger is under the release button, and pull up, nine times out of ten the brake will not engage. This is without trying to depress the button in any way. Measuring it, holding the button depressed by little more than 1mm prevents it engaging. It is the ease with which the brake can be made to not fully engage that I think makes half-engaging more likely. I am convinced the brake can be half-engaged, how else could it ping off ?. Now if due to tolerances, the amount the release button needs depressing varies, then some cars will be more susceptible than others.

25th August 2007, 18:29	#94 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Thanks for that Pottsy. You see, on mine the clicks are positive enough, but the button movement is barely more than 1mm. Anyway, I've let the good lady know that she needs to apply a force of 44lbf, to which she replied "........................................". Frankie Howard would have been proud of that line.

25th August 2007, 19:47	#95 (permalink)
HappyMan Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 16th August 2007 Location: Poland Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 14 Thanked 50 Times in 46 Posts iTrader: (0)	I have been driving for about 16 years and mainly in the UK, but now I live in Poland and they don't use the Handbrake. I was surprised by this but very often when I have taken my car to the dealer for a service ( skoda at present ) the car is parked in gear without the handbrake. My father in law never aplies the handbrake just leaves it in gear unless he is on a hill. It is interesting how I will fair in the Civic as I have to apply the gear into reverse at present due to a security device that is applied to the gears to stop people driving away with your car. The civic can't have this device so I am wondering if I will naturally put it into gear or not!!! But by the sounds of this post I better had keep the habit

25th August 2007, 21:19	#97 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	FWH, We seem to having different experiences here, which the difference in button movement probably accounts for, mine is definately 1mm only. Here's how I can reproduce the problem, it's hard to explain in words, more a question of feel. Apply the brake hard, the harder the better. Now ease it upwards just enough to reduce the pressure, while very gently depressing the button. You should be able to feel the teeth not fully engage. Catch it right, and it can be made to stay in this position. Now, give it a tap and it flies off. I must say, I have no idea if this is better or worse than any other car's handbrake, and am happy enough just to take care when applying it. I do feel though that it is an issue for the unwary, and would be very annoyed to be caught out in the manner descibed by Ikes earlier.

25th August 2007, 21:38	#99 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Pottsy, yes it is applied very hard, and no, it does not engage a lower tooth but flies right to the bottom, very quickly and with a lot of force. When it is appied this hard, it seems more likely to hold the teeth in this half-engaged position, I guess due to higher friction between the teeth. Maybe some grease is called for.