Satisfaction British Built - Is this a bad thing?

[kgbhoy]

Just noticing a few things posted by others who have owned various other Honda models built in America and Japan which by and large have been of far sounder build quality to the Swindon offerings. Ultimately there have been a few real tales of horror on here and what I am suggesting is the possibility that Quality Control and Customer Service based in Britain is inferior to the same in Honda's other manufacturing bases.

Discuss.

[civie]

Nah i disagree with you my friend, i believe that all new models have "teething" problems associated with new models - Technology, Obviousy there have been production problems with early models, however , reading the results of the last satisfaction survey i would say that overall owners are more than satisfied with there purchases.

Secondly, This site is for owners of the euro model civic, presumably there is a site for the US civic model and a dare guess that the feedback is very much like if not worse than the threads posted here.

As for quality control, Honda uk would not knowingly allow cars to leave production lines destined for customers with known quality issues.

[kgbhoy]

Originally Posted by civie

i believe that all new models have "teething" problems associated with new models - Technology, Obviousy there have been production problems with early models, however , reading the results of the last satisfaction survey i would say that overall owners are more than satisfied with there purchases.

This is true and I won't dispute it. However, what I am saying is that whilst all new technology will breed problems where exactly is the ground breakingly new technology in the Civic? Now I do expect to be corrected on this point as I am no engineer but in terms of electronics, fuel cap openers, bluetooth, wiring, sat nav, chasis, suspension, there is nothing actually ground breaking in the civic. Yet these are the tings that are causing the problems. All of these things are well established in other models and makes. I believe that the USP of the civic is the way in which these features are packaged into the car and not any ground breaking technology. That, I think, is the reality.

Originally Posted by civie

Secondly, This site is for owners of the euro model civic, presumably there is a site for the US civic model and a dare guess that the feedback is very much like if not worse than the threads posted here.

I fear that you have missed my point somewhat in this regard. I'm not interested in the international build quality of the civic alone and if I was it would surely be negligable anyway as all of the models are quite different from what I can see, although again I am no expert. The point that I am making, or rather suggesting, is that this vechicle, this Honda product which has been produced in Britain for consumtion throughout Europe may be of inferior quality to a similar Honda product, not necessarily a Civic, produced in America or Japan, for consumption in Europe. I take my basis for this argument from the posts of others on this forum who have stated the same.

Originally Posted by civie

As for quality control, Honda uk would not knowingly allow cars to leave production lines destined for customers with known quality issues.

The key phrase there being not knowingly. This may be because of an inferior level of quality control. Something that I know most people wouldn't think would happen in a multi-national corporation like Honda where quality control would surely be standardized. Yet... this is exactly where something like this would happen as I can testify to first hand having worked for one of the biggest companies in the world in the past. I will not name this company for caution over legal reprisal.

[LoonyJohn]

I've seen quite a few civics in my local dealers, and to be honest, I havn't found one that was perfect, in terms of trim and finish! yet I still ordered one......
I don't think that the British worker has any lesser desire to do a good job than anyone else in the world.. there are regional differences though :

In Japan and the USA it is common for the component suppliers to build their factories next to the car plant, so quality assurance bosses can keep a tighter reign. Also, with suppliers being on the same site, more long-term commitment and mutual understanding develops.

In the UK we have a very poor exchange rate at the present, so building cars has to be as efficient as possible to make a profit, speeding up the production line without increasing the workforce for instance, and sub-contracting out inefficient processes and parts.

[kgbhoy]

So basically you therefore accept that at this time and under the present economic and practical conditions a car built in the Swindon factory is likely to be of lesser quality than one built in Japan, thus affirming my suggestion that British built civics are to a degree inferior to non-British built cars?

[3rd Honda]

To correct Civie, Honda continued to deliver cars with faulty shock absorbers long after they knew of the issues. I presume it took time to get a new 'correct' source on stream?

I have owned 2 x USA built Hondas, and my Father 1 x Japanese built, and all have been much better built than my UK built. Better quality materials, better assembled, NO faults.

[geoff]

I have had two new cars over the last six years a Japanese Built Shogun Kept it for 5 years only 2 minor problems
Then i made the mistake of driving a british built Civic and bought one
Never again
The earlier models civic might of been boring but the quality was there

[LoonyJohn]

Originally Posted by kgbhoy

So basically you therefore accept that at this time and under the present economic and practical conditions a car built in the Swindon factory is likely to be of lesser quality than one built in Japan, thus affirming my suggestion that British built civics are to a degree inferior to non-British built cars?

Well, I don't think I would have been quite so wordy about it, but from what I have seen, I think that Honda UK do have their problems.

I don't think that the problem is due to the workforce, and I doubt that the working practices are to blame either, but more likely that the restrictions imposed simply by being situated in the UK. For example, the quality of the paint is affected by the local regulations regarding solvents. Once the paint is cured then this is irrelevent, so cars painted where there are no such regulations have glossier paint!

[Topcat]

The previous civic had an excellent reputation the new civic appears to have many problems largely due to poor design, cheap parts. Probably the car would still have issues if it was built in Japan because of this but no doubt poor quality workmanship doewn't help from the workers in Swindon, I mean how many people have had the springs fitted upside down!!!!

[PTR]

Originally Posted by kgbhoy

British Built - Is this a bad thing?

I think yes... I mean it's def. not a good thing... I mean it would be better to get the Civ's from japan...

[Cheltenhamshire]

British built Civic that I have is very poor. British built CRV I have whilst they stuggle to fix my heap is excellent.

Go figure, they are both made in the same factory.

[FWH]

Kgbhoy,
Interesting discussion.

According to info on the web, the base (whatever that is) of the Civic was developed in Japan and the rest in 11 different countries (not specified which). Spreading the R&D over 12 sites can hardly make QA easier. Does Honda (and other mfgs) do this with other cars?


Some problems are clearly poor or marginal design imho.
E.g. fuel filler, HFT.
(I wonder where these particular parts were developed)

Others probably poor selection of sub-suppliers.
(E.g. shocks)

And some in-factory quality problems.
(Incorrect assembly)

With regard to "ground breaking technology" the question is if it is the first time for Honda to use the technology, not if it has been available on the market before. Honda would not be able to access other mfgs IP. Although sourcing from common supplier should help in this area, as sub-systems should be universal in some cases at least. But this gets back to actually talking to your suppliers.

An interesting survey would be:
a) month of purchase (eg Jan 06 or July 07)
b) number of issues (0-999999)

This would show if improvements are being made and if the worst basket cases were all early units. Obviously, the mfg qty for each month would be good to know to put perspective on things in such a survey.

[new4hondas]

Well, i must admit that i'll always thought that british production is top of the class ... you people just confused me a lot.
I even thought for a bit that i should reconsider buing that car.
Damn, is really that bad?
I want to drive that Civic since the moment i saw it. Mu current car is Toyota Avensis which btw i think is Made in Britain ... and served me so far perfectly( 2 1/2 years). I'am not satisfied with his size and my wife also refusing driving it, so ... we go for the Civic.
But now i have to do some serious reading in the next 2 weeks before actually decide purchasing.

[Foggy69]

Originally Posted by new4hondas

I even thought for a bit that i should reconsider buing that car.
Damn, is really that bad?
I want to drive that Civic since the moment i saw it. Mu current car is Toyota Avensis which btw i think is Made in Britain ... and served me so far perfectly( 2 1/2 years).

Please don't be put off buying a Civic.
There are a small number of faults, but these tended to be on early cars. Later cars seem to be screwed together better.
And you are correct, the Avensis is built in the UK, and does have the normal Toyota reliability

[grebble]

I don't think there is anything wrong with British built cars. My last three cars have been:

1997 Nissan Primera. Built in Sunderland - no faults.
2002 Honda Civic. Built in Swindon - no faults.
2007 Honda Civic. Built in Swindon - no faults (yet) - touch wood!

On all of those cars, the model had been around for at least a year. I daresay any new model built anywhere will have some problems before they are ironed out, and Honda is no exception. The faults in most new Civics are relatively minor, i.e. they do not cause the car to grind to a halt. If you want REAL teething problems, I suggest you go and look at a French car forum. Anyone had a turbo blow on a Honda? Now ask the same question on Peugeot or Renault forum.

[terry]

I had a previous version Civic (52 reg) which had 4 wheels replaced due to corrosion, a faulty rear wheel bearing, and rust around the rear wheel arches Which really supprised the dealer!). Dealer was very good at doing them, I was disapointed though, thinking I was moving to a better quality car having owned mostly Fords before.
Having read things here perhaps my expectations were lowered so I'm less annoyed. My Civic has had some problems, been to the dealer twice so far this year (I got the car at the end of December), but still has some minor rattles and a creaking rear end, but I love it (the car, not the creaking rear!).

Terry

[Brodick]

Having had
3 previous swindon built civics &
1 Swindon Built CR-V in the family
I have nothing but gratitude to the boys and girls at swindon
never had any real problem with any of them and whilst there
has been a couple of very minor niggles ( which were promptly fixed by our excellent dealers) we had no reason not to buy
a new Civic and a New CR-V ( on order) again both Swindon built.

The new civic has much more advanced electronic displays and function than the past models and so some of the new technology would appear to have caused some problems Most of wich have now been fixed

It would also appear that Honda have been let down by some of their suppliers in terms of them supplying inferior parts ( which should have been spotted quickly and weren't

I would have no problems about buying another Honda British or Japanese
don't think I would by american though

[kgbhoy]

Interestingly enough I don't think that I would buy American either. Any British built car I have ever owned so far has broken down or fallen apart, although those were a rover and a ford escort. My other cars have been Korean (not bad) german (fuel pump went but apparently that was the fault of the previous owner) and french (went on fire!) so I guess they all have their problems.

Although as has already been alluded to here it really isn't as simple as the black and white argument that you could be forgiven for taking it to be.

[l-noel]

Originally Posted by FWH

Kgbhoy,
Interesting discussion.

According to info on the web, the base (whatever that is) of the Civic was developed in Japan and the rest in 11 different countries (not specified which). Spreading the R&D over 12 sites can hardly make QA easier. Does Honda (and other mfgs) do this with other cars?


Some problems are clearly poor or marginal design imho.
E.g. fuel filler, HFT.
(I wonder where these particular parts were developed)

Others probably poor selection of sub-suppliers.
(E.g. shocks)

And some in-factory quality problems.
(Incorrect assembly)

With regard to "ground breaking technology" the question is if it is the first time for Honda to use the technology, not if it has been available on the market before. Honda would not be able to access other mfgs IP. Although sourcing from common supplier should help in this area, as sub-systems should be universal in some cases at least. But this gets back to actually talking to your suppliers.

An interesting survey would be:
a) month of purchase (eg Jan 06 or July 07)
b) number of issues (0-999999)

This would show if improvements are being made and if the worst basket cases were all early units. Obviously, the mfg qty for each month would be good to know to put perspective on things in such a survey.

I agree with you !

Yet a car is more or less an assembly of sub-manufactured parts, for example the air-conditioning and thermal regulation system is made by a Peugeot subsidiary (they are working also for VW BMW and so on...)

Even the car manufactured in japan have problems and even Honda let car with known quality issue out of the factory, Its a manufacturing cost question and a commercial issue. How much are people are willing to pay for a top quality car ? How many unsatisfied customer are we able to accept before reconsidering the quality issue ?

[LoonyJohn]

Originally Posted by Topcat

The previous civic had an excellent reputation the new civic appears to have many problems largely due to poor design, cheap parts. Probably the car would still have issues if it was built in Japan because of this but no doubt poor quality workmanship doewn't help from the workers in Swindon, I mean how many people have had the springs fitted upside down!!!!

Hi TC

This is probably a good example of a pre-assembled part (though this is a guess as I don't work for Honda), as the front hub, strut, spring are probably assembled at a suppliers, then shipped to Honda as a unit!

Also a good design wouldn't allow the spring to be fitted wrongly!