HUK Customer suggested improvements being fed back to HUK (split posts)

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

This has been a useful thread. After a meeting with and a specific request by Honda, they are keen for design feedback on the car (amongst other things). I have summarised the content of this thread for them as follows:

So they are keen for design feedback but dont give a s*** about all the unhappy customers they have now and wriggle their way out of any complaints by denying knowing of any problems or poor design faults!! How hypocritical of them.

[Pottsy]

Originally Posted by Topcat

So they are keen for design feedback but dont give a s*** about all the unhappy customers they have now and wriggle their way out of any complaints by denying knowing of any problems or poor design faults!! How hypocritical of them.

OK, maybe I should have pointed out that about 2% of the meeting time was concerned with "improvements for the next MY". I am not willing to discuss the contents of this private meeting, but I'll leave you to guess what the rest was about (and no, it was not one subject!)

This forum has a positive role to play for consumers, on many fronts. I have spent time and money doing this for others, and inevitably one of those beneficiaries is going to be Honda. Is this not a good thing? I see it as a shame when someone responds to efforts to make things better with strong language about how hypocritical they are.

Personally I believe that HUK do care about customers who are less than happy. But I also acknowledge (from my personal experience, both from here and at work) that in retail there will always be a tiny, tiny percentage of customers who will never be happy, despite solid and generous efforts.

PS - please don't think I am just siding with Honda. If that were the case, I'd simply delete the bugs forum.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

This forum has a positive role to play for consumers, on many fronts. I have spent time and money doing this for others, and inevitably one of those beneficiaries is going to be Honda. Is this not a good thing? I see it as a shame when someone responds to efforts to make things better with strong language about how hypocritical they are.

Personally I believe that HUK do care about customers who are less than happy. But I also acknowledge (from my personal experience, both from here and at work) that in retail there will always be a tiny, tiny percentage of customers who will never be happy, despite solid and generous efforts.

PS - please don't think I am just siding with Honda. If that were the case, I'd simply delete the bugs forum.

Pottsy, I know you spend a lot of your time and money with this forum but so have a lot of customers, spent a hell of a lot of money and plenty of time trying to get their cars sorted out only to have received absolutely disgraceful treatment by Honda who now it seems will be benefiting from this site.

If you deleted the bugs forum people would go elsewhere looking for help, Maybe there may be a few customers who will never be happy despite solid an generous efforts as you say, but there are plenty of people who have just simply been ignored completely by Honda so I don't see how anyone can call that a solid and generous effort.

Just makes me mad!

[WavyD]

Originally Posted by Topcat

Pottsy, I know you spend a lot of your time and money with this forum but so have a lot of customers, spent a hell of a lot of money and plenty of time trying to get their cars sorted out only to have received absolutely disgraceful treatment by Honda who now it seems will be benefiting from this site.

If you deleted the bugs forum people would go elsewhere looking for help, Maybe there may be a few customers who will never be happy despite solid an generous efforts as you say, but there are plenty of people who have just simply been ignored completely by Honda so I don't see how anyone can call that a solid and generous effort.

Just makes me mad!

Calm down TC. I think that what Pottsy was saying is - If he was, he would, but as he isn't, he hasn't! If you get my meaning?

Clear as mud!

PS have you replaced the Hamster yet?

[Pottsy]

TC, Wavy has the mud penetrating vision.

I did not realise that there has been anyone who has been "ignored completely by Honda", aside from those who have had the effort made but the complaining persists.

To get upset that Honda may benefit from this forum suggests that you may have a "war" state of mind with them. Customer feedback may well lead to better products.

[3rd Honda]

I think the problem with Honda is that they are not finding solutions.

Examples:

1. I have been lining with 'CHECK SYSTEM' on and off since for well over 6 months - now on every time I start the car. Despite 3 visits to the dealers at which time it is reset, but comes back a week or two later - I am told that Honda know about this issue, and will be issuing a software update to correct it. That is still the story 6 months later.
2. I had new shock absorbers fitted - and six months later the replacements are just as noisy as the ones they replaced. Dealer may have to replace them again.
3. I am still unable to listen to main BBC Radio stations let alone local stations without dropouts - whereas on my previous 2 Hondas this never happened - dealer says its 'as they all are'.
4. Voice control is useless - again - dealer acknowledges its not very good - but no fixes other than foam mod (done)
5. Fuel filler still sometimes requires several attempts and is to have the latest mod at the next dealer visit. Previous (foam) mod was a (bad) joke

Basically - when it comes down to the facts - I have made several dealer visits - and thanks to the fact that Honda are not supplying suitable fixes to the dealer, I'm not getting anywhere. Dealer has been helpful, but isn't getting factory support. This is the major gripe I have.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

TC, Wavy has the mud penetrating vision.

I did not realise that there has been anyone who has been "ignored completely by Honda", aside from those who have had the effort made but the complaining persists.

To get upset that Honda may benefit from this forum suggests that you may have a "war" state of mind with them. Customer feedback may well lead to better products.

Well you know that I had four letters, a solicitor's letter, emails and phonecalls completely ignored and when they finally answered it was to say don't correspond again, thats great customer service and are you telling me you think thats HUK making an effort!!!

Charles Harding springs to mind as another having been ignored and I know there are others, its just frustrating thats all.

I probably do have a "war" state of mind with them but then they have never offered me to have a chat about problems, they just told me to go away regardless of the fact that they have failed to answer any of my questions relating to the paint and other issues I have with them. Everybody that has now seen my paint report thinks it is extremely "suspect" thats parts are blanked out and that the top and clear coat do not meet their working standard in many areas, so why shouldn't I persist in asking questions? Even the Manager at Chiswick was confused by that and said he could see what I was worried about but what has he done - nothing apart from tell me to give up as HUk wont discuss it with him either!

Customer feedback is good but I think they should sort out existing problems also, trying to deny there is nothing wrong with their fog lights, failing handbrakes, flat batteries etc I just find this poor thats all.

But in answer to WavyD's question - Yes I have replaced the hamster with fluff ball guinea pigs who need names

[Pottsy]

Originally Posted by Topcat

Well you know that I had four letters, a solicitor's letter, emails and phonecalls completely ignored and when they finally answered it was to say don't correspond again, thats great customer service and are you telling me you think thats HUK making an effort!!!

I'm sorry TC, but I put you in the other category (effort already made) because you have already had one brand new car out of them, when most manufacturers would have simply put the car right. To get a replacement car out of HUK does not (IMO) classify as being "completely ignored".

In my dealings with other manufacturers, I have never personally known a replacement car.

I think the paint problem on your second car is going to be met with some resistance (as you've seen), possibly since you have used up their goodwill/time/money by getting a new car out of them, and that it may be perceived that the problem follows the owner, not the car. I'm only guessing, but I think that may be the issue. Which is why, as we have discussed, your only route is assembling the evidence for a case and taking action under the SoG act. There are lots of people who are willing to help you with this - I suspect all you need is a good quality paint report from an established third party testing company.

The design of the car (like all cars) is not perfect, and for the most part HUK seem to take steps to rectify the problems. Fuel filler (bit slow to fix), dampers and so on. They maintain that the issue of the fog lights is down to their size and position, and have made an attempt to appease by significantly reducing the cost of replacement. Now whether those steps are good enough is open for debate, but I have still to hear of anyone with a reasonable complaint being "completely ignored" without solid efforts being made first.

[basegreen]

When I had my problems, and my car was replaced, although it was a stress, most of that was due to finding out what the problem *was*, and some slightly dubious administrative errors that cost me additional money. IN the end, I got a new car, and a lot of accessories for free.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

I'm sorry TC, but I put you in the other category (effort already made) because you have already had one brand new car out of them, when most manufacturers would have simply put the car right. To get a replacement car out of HUK does not (IMO) classify as being "completely ignored".

In my dealings with other manufacturers, I have never personally known a replacement car.

I think the paint problem on your second car is going to be met with some resistance (as you've seen), possibly since you have used up their goodwill/time/money by getting a new car out of them, and that it may be perceived that the problem follows the owner, not the car. I'm only guessing, but I think that may be the issue. Which is why, as we have discussed, your only route is assembling the evidence for a case and taking action under the SoG act. There are lots of people who are willing to help you with this - I suspect all you need is a good quality paint report from an established third party testing company.

The design of the car (like all cars) is not perfect, and for the most part HUK seem to take steps to rectify the problems. Fuel filler (bit slow to fix), dampers and so on. They maintain that the issue of the fog lights is down to their size and position, and have made an attempt to appease by significantly reducing the cost of replacement. Now whether those steps are good enough is open for debate, but I have still to hear of anyone with a reasonable complaint being "completely ignored" without solid efforts being made first.

Pottsy - So if you bought yourself a TV that went wrong and had it replaced and the next one went wrong for different reasons you would not complain? Your saying that because the first car was not fit for the purpose and replaced (I was told by HUK I would have won hands down in Court btw) I am expected to settle for the replacement not being right? That is total rubbish IMO.

I had the car replaced, I didnt get any extras or freebies as Basegreen did, I didn't ask for it and didn't expect it I was over the moon I was having a replacement, had I known the second car was going to have a new set of problems I would have had my money back which btw a member on this forum has had recently but has chosen to keep quiet about it. When I was given the replacement it did not come with a condition that waived any rights to be able to complain again.

You can not ignore a customer and tell them to go away just because you feel that you had dealt with their problems on a seperate occasion with a different product in this instance a car!

I was told by a manager of HUK after he had heard the radio problems on my car last July they would be finding a fix for the radio problems and they would keep me posted, when I have asked them about it in my letters their long awaited reply said they feel there is no problem!

I have never asked them for anything, I have never expected anything, I dont want a refund I dont want a replacement, all I wanted was some answers to questions that concerned issues with the car and how they arrived at the findings of their extremely "suspect" paint report.

I personally do not think that is asking too much.

As you well know I have had difficulties trying to find a company to do an independant paint report, I have spoken with three companies associated with Honda who have told me that the information I have been given about my paint differs to the information that they have been given but they will not get involved for fear of going against one of their customers and told me that everything was off the record.

I know that the original paint on my car was not right, the fact that I no longer have much of the paintwork left due to repairs means that I no longer have a problem with it so I am now happy about that. But I think it is disgraceful in the way this matter has been dealt with by both Chiswick and HUK.

[Pottsy]

Originally Posted by Topcat

...the fact that I no longer have much of the paintwork left due to repairs means that I no longer have a problem with it so I am now happy about that....

Excellent! Does this just now leave the radio reception?

My point before was simply one of getting the best result by viewing the situation from the other viewpoint. You may not be able to win the war, but if you can get a decent car to pop out of the end of the process, then that has to be a result, surely?

If you use the radio a lot, and the internal antenna is just not good enough then would you consider adding a stinger antenna to improve the situation?

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Excellent! Does this just now leave the radio reception?

My point before was simply one of getting the best result by viewing the situation from the other viewpoint. You may not be able to win the war, but if you can get a decent car to pop out of the end of the process, then that has to be a result, surely?

If you use the radio a lot, and the internal antenna is just not good enough then would you consider adding a stinger antenna to improve the situation?

The paint is only acceptable now because I paid for it to be repaired not because Honda sorted it out so the end result had nothing to do with them helping me.

I am reluctant to mess about with an external aerial as it may put people off when I sell it but I can live with the radio the way it is even though I have never driven any other car with reception like it.

The knocking noise is being looked at week after next, dealers have heard it so I know I am not mad

Windscreen wipers - have to wait for a day when it is raining, making the noise and I am not on my way to the school/work etc so I can take it straight to the dealership. Again I have the video proof I am not mad and am not complaining about nothing.

Mildew growing in rear light cluster - I will get this replaced near to the three year warranty ending.

Other problems sorted out (touch wood) I have every faith in the Ruislip dealership which who have made the whole situation so much less stressful.

If Honda had taken the time to speak to me or at least listen to me without ignoring me and then telling me not to correspond again I wouldn't be so annoyed with them. If the paint report had arrived last December as promised and then any questions replied to I would have found the whole thing less stressful and been more inclined to think that they did care and were trying to help rather than thinking the opposite.

I think anyone treated by a company in that way would have some resentment towards them, I am not blaming Honda as a whole and I am not saying all their products are rubbish because I know they are not and I certainly wouldn't consider buying another Honda if I thought that. Just some of the people I have come come accross at Chiswick and HUK have been arrogant, unhelpful and driven me mad with their couldn't give a damn attitude.

[Pottsy]

TC, it's good to see you smiling.

I used to do work for car dealerships (computer stuff) and I personally saw some awful behaviour from staff, and it was mostly aimed at women and the elderly. Both are perceived as being easily fooled with automotive stuff, and it was really really sad to see. Tragically, the bad behaviour nearly always backfires in the end, but the tools who work at these dealerships are just too dim to see that. OTOH, at one dealer the DP was an absolute gentleman, and went out to help those who were most "at risk" in a dealership. That dealer is now a chain, and he is doing very very well indeed.

I take your point about the stinger, although it wouldn't worry me (either as the seller or the buyer). I'd love to park my car next to yours one day so we could do some decent radio tests (and paint comparisons) - maybe the day will come soon!

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

I used to do work for car dealerships (computer stuff) and I personally saw some awful behaviour from staff, and it was mostly aimed at women and the elderly. Both are perceived as being easily fooled with automotive stuff, and it was really really sad to see. Tragically, the bad behaviour nearly always backfires in the end, but the tools who work at these dealerships are just too dim to see that. OTOH, at one dealer the DP was an absolute gentleman, and went out to help those who were most "at risk" in a dealership. That dealer is now a chain, and he is doing very very well indeed.

I'd love to park my car next to yours one day so we could do some decent radio tests (and paint comparisons) - maybe the day will come soon!

Think you will find my paint is better than yours now

I look forward to that day Pottsy

[czechplastik]

Originally Posted by Topcat

I look forward to that day Pottsy

Bless!

[Pottsy]

TC,

Just followed a link from the excellent Barry Boys website to this thread (caution needed) where a paint expert goes to town on a new Vauxhall.

Couple of pics that may interest you:

IMG_0295.jpg

graphpaint.jpg

This chap can do reports for you, and he really seems to know what he's talking about.

He's here: http://www.miracledetail.co.uk/auto-...orrection.html

[Topcat]

Thanks Pottsy but I have met him - he has been to my house

He can not help me because he doesn't have a recognised qualification and so could not carry out an independant paint inspection.

He has better equipment than probably anyone in this country an really knows what he is talking about, he is one of the people that explained to me how paint is broken down in to the layers etc

[Nighthaunt]

Pottsy - good news on the cheaper fog lights - how much do they cost now per single unit to replace?
And has Honda thought about an optional accessory foglight cover - have these for the main lights on my golf - and would buy them for the fogs on the civic if they do them.
Alex

[Pottsy]

They were about £180 to £200, now should be about £110. Still not cheap!

I'm sure they are constantly looking at ways to make the car better, but they will not announce a change until it is set in stone and available.

You are aware of these, aren't you?

fog light covers made & fitted