Computer IMPORTANT!!! Immobiliser Locks out when jump starting!

tucker101uk · 30th June 2007, 10:32

Hi All -

Just thought i would post a story of the fiasco i've had this morning...

To cut a long story short I was a div and left my lights on last night. Tried to jump start to car this morning, and the immobiliser light came on and stayed on - so although the car turned over, it wouldnt start.

Cue the AA, towage to my local Honda dealer, and following a short conversation with the Mr Man at Honda, i became aware of a serious fault.

If you connect the jump leads to the battery with the key in the ignition, the immobiliser scrambles and shuts down, meaning that Mr Honda needs to plug his computer into the car to get it started again. Therefore the moral of the story is:

***Make sure your keys ARE NOT in the ignition before you connect your jump leads to the battery!!!!***

Apparently Honda are aware of this, but have failed to inform anyone about it. Nice one!!!

Tom

Dalboy · 30th June 2007, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker101uk

Hi All -

Just thought i would post a story of the fiasco i've had this morning...

To cut a long story short I was a div and left my lights on last night. Tried to jump start to car this morning, and the immobiliser light came on and stayed on - so although the car turned over, it wouldnt start.

Cue the AA, towage to my local Honda dealer, and following a short conversation with the Mr Man at Honda, i became aware of a serious fault.

If you connect the jump leads to the battery with the key in the ignition, the immobiliser scrambles and shuts down, meaning that Mr Honda needs to plug his computer into the car to get it started again. Therefore the moral of the story is:

***Make sure your keys ARE NOT in the ignition before you connect your jump leads to the battery!!!!***

Apparently Honda are aware of this, but have failed to inform anyone about it. Nice one!!!

Tom

Worth knowing

Anthony · 30th June 2007, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker101uk

Hi All -

[..]

***Make sure your keys ARE NOT in the ignition before you connect your jump leads to the battery!!!!***

Tom

Thanks for the heads up Tom...

Anthony.

pcr · 30th June 2007, 13:56

Good piece of advice, and I assume the same applies to disconnecting/reconnecting the battery ??

czechplastik · 30th June 2007, 19:54

Handy tip, one for the wiki...

hondatech · 30th June 2007, 21:15

this problem only affects 2006 5dr cars only,When the ignition keys are left in the ignition and jump leads are connected to the vehicle it causes an electrical disturbance (chattering) to the +B voltage, this disturbance causes a problem with the data within the EEPROM. The MICU sees the data problem and re-writes the whole EEPROM contents which also overwrites the key, when you try to start the car the immobiliser does not recognise the key and prevents the engine from starting.
All 3dr cars & all those built from the end of 2006 should not be affected as the eeprom software has been made more resistant to electrical disturbance when jump starting !

WoolyCiv · 30th June 2007, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatech

this problem only affects 2006 5dr cars only,When the ignition keys are left in the ignition and jump leads are connected to the vehicle it causes an electrical disturbance (chattering) to the +B voltage, this disturbance causes a problem with the data within the EEPROM. The MICU sees the data problem and re-writes the whole EEPROM contents which also overwrites the key, when you try to start the car the immobiliser does not recognise the key and prevents the engine from starting.
All 3dr cars & all those built from the end of 2006 should not be affected as the eeprom software has been made more resistant to electrical disturbance when jump starting !

Should this not be the subject of a recall to correct all the 2006 models? I would also like to know the answer to PCR's question about disconnectng/reconnecting the battery.

jofawe · 1st July 2007, 09:44

you learn something new everyday...

hondatech · 1st July 2007, 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoolyCiv

Should this not be the subject of a recall to correct all the 2006 models? I would also like to know the answer to PCR's question about disconnectng/reconnecting the battery.

I personally dont think its a serious enough problem to warrant a recall,if the simple precaution of removing your keys prior to connecting your jump leads/pack is followed then there isnt a problem,as for concerns over connecting/disconnecting battery leads etc then also take the keys out of the ignition. This is good practice really,very similar to removing battery leads when welding on a car,you are trying to prevent any voltage spikes from frying any ecu`s etc.

TTDegs · 2nd July 2007, 17:56

cracking (pair of) answers there hondatech, cheers!

chaser · 2nd July 2007, 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatech

I personally dont think its a serious enough problem to warrant a recall,if the simple precaution of removing your keys prior to connecting your jump leads/pack is followed then there isnt a problem

This simple precaution only works if you've read this thread and know you need to remove the key to prevent a problem in the first place

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatech

as for concerns over connecting/disconnecting battery leads etc then also take the keys out of the ignition. This is good practice really

You're right it is good practice. Now, I've had plenty of practice with jump starting my Civic over the last few months, and never come across this problem. It 's probably because I've never have the key in the ignition before connecting the jump leads - but I wouldn't swear to that.

pcr · 2nd July 2007, 21:36

I would think the average driver will have no idea that the ignition key needs to be removed when jump starting, Honda should do something abour this, even if it is just a warning label fitted to the top of the battery.

Imagine returning from holiday to a flat battery, no problem, the parking lot will jump start it. Oh sh*t, you now need a tow to a Honda dealers who will be open on Monday.

WoolyCiv · 2nd July 2007, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatech

this problem only affects 2006 5dr cars only,When the ignition keys are left in the ignition and jump leads are connected to the vehicle it causes an electrical disturbance (chattering) to the +B voltage, this disturbance causes a problem with the data within the EEPROM.

Would this occur if you offered a jump start to some else? I was always told to start my engine then connect from the dead battery to the good battery (Neg first then postive).
Would this cause the voltage fluctuation and if so would it be enough to scramble the eeprom? I always noted a drop in engine revs when the 'flat' battery was conected as the alternator came online so I presume the good battery voltage had dropped quite a bit.

romatic · 2nd July 2007, 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatech

this problem only affects 2006 5dr cars only,When the ignition keys are left in the ignition and jump leads are connected to the vehicle it causes an electrical disturbance (chattering) to the +B voltage, this disturbance causes a problem with the data within the EEPROM. The MICU sees the data problem and re-writes the whole EEPROM contents which also overwrites the key, when you try to start the car the immobiliser does not recognise the key and prevents the engine from starting.
All 3dr cars & all those built from the end of 2006 should not be affected as the eeprom software has been made more resistant to electrical disturbance when jump starting !

Thank you for that info, Hondatech.

paul_b · 2nd July 2007, 23:28

This seems like a serious issue to me.

A large percentage of Civic owners are not members of this forum and will not have a clue about this.

pcr sums up my thoughts on the issue. The cost and inconvenience of what should be an unnecessary tow is not going to do any good for Honda's reputation in my opinion.

FWH · 2nd July 2007, 23:33

A sticker on the battery would be easy.

Bog · 3rd July 2007, 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FWH

A sticker on the battery would be easy.

I agree, Honda could write to all 2006 5dr owners highlighting the problem and enclose a battery sticker to remind them.

This would also be much cheaper than a recall and show customers they care!

l-noel · 3rd July 2007, 08:26

Or they can do a remapping of the ECU during the next service.

tucker101uk · 9th July 2007, 11:33

Personally I think that something should be done.

Normally jumping the car with the keys in the ignition wont cause an issue, and i dont see why it should with this car specifically.

More importantly, why havnt current owners been informed, if Honda is aware of the issue.

If i didnt have AA cover then i would have been screwed...

30th June 2007, 10:32	#1 (permalink)
tucker101uk Wheelnut Join Date: 8th August 2006 Location: Sussex, UK Posts: 87 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	IMPORTANT!!! Immobiliser Locks out when jump starting! Hi All - Just thought i would post a story of the fiasco i've had this morning... To cut a long story short I was a div and left my lights on last night. Tried to jump start to car this morning, and the immobiliser light came on and stayed on - so although the car turned over, it wouldnt start. Cue the AA, towage to my local Honda dealer, and following a short conversation with the Mr Man at Honda, i became aware of a serious fault. If you connect the jump leads to the battery with the key in the ignition, the immobiliser scrambles and shuts down, meaning that Mr Honda needs to plug his computer into the car to get it started again. Therefore the moral of the story is: *Make sure your keys ARE NOT in the ignition before you connect your jump leads to the battery!!!!* Apparently Honda are aware of this, but have failed to inform anyone about it. Nice one!!! Tom

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This thread is about: IMPORTANT!!! Immobiliser Locks out when jump starting!, it's in Bugs, faults and irritations at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Hi All - Just thought i would post a story of the fiasco i've had this morning... To cut a long story short I was ...

30th June 2007, 13:56	#4 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Good piece of advice, and I assume the same applies to disconnecting/reconnecting the battery ??

30th June 2007, 19:54	#5 (permalink)
czechplastik King of the rodeo Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th October 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 4,671 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Handy tip, one for the wiki...

30th June 2007, 21:15	#6 (permalink)
hondatech Valve Cap Join Date: 13th November 2006 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	this problem only affects 2006 5dr cars only,When the ignition keys are left in the ignition and jump leads are connected to the vehicle it causes an electrical disturbance (chattering) to the +B voltage, this disturbance causes a problem with the data within the EEPROM. The MICU sees the data problem and re-writes the whole EEPROM contents which also overwrites the key, when you try to start the car the immobiliser does not recognise the key and prevents the engine from starting. All 3dr cars & all those built from the end of 2006 should not be affected as the eeprom software has been made more resistant to electrical disturbance when jump starting !

1st July 2007, 09:44	#8 (permalink)
jofawe Valve Cap Join Date: 26th February 2007 Location: Växjö, Sweden Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	you learn something new everyday...

2nd July 2007, 17:56	#10 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	cracking (pair of) answers there hondatech, cheers!

2nd July 2007, 21:36	#12 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I would think the average driver will have no idea that the ignition key needs to be removed when jump starting, Honda should do something abour this, even if it is just a warning label fitted to the top of the battery. Imagine returning from holiday to a flat battery, no problem, the parking lot will jump start it. Oh sh*t, you now need a tow to a Honda dealers who will be open on Monday.

2nd July 2007, 23:28	#15 (permalink)
paul_b Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 6th April 2007 Location: London/Herts Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	This seems like a serious issue to me. A large percentage of Civic owners are not members of this forum and will not have a clue about this. pcr sums up my thoughts on the issue. The cost and inconvenience of what should be an unnecessary tow is not going to do any good for Honda's reputation in my opinion.

2nd July 2007, 23:33	#16 (permalink)
FWH Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 3rd June 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 5,986 Thanks: 14 Thanked 66 Times in 61 Posts iTrader: (0)	A sticker on the battery would be easy.

3rd July 2007, 08:26	#18 (permalink)
l-noel Wine and cooking ! Rocketship door handle Join Date: 5th December 2006 Location: Roanne-France Posts: 1,316 Thanks: 4 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (0)	Or they can do a remapping of the ECU during the next service.

9th July 2007, 11:33	#19 (permalink)
tucker101uk Wheelnut Join Date: 8th August 2006 Location: Sussex, UK Posts: 87 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Personally I think that something should be done. Normally jumping the car with the keys in the ignition wont cause an issue, and i dont see why it should with this car specifically. More importantly, why havnt current owners been informed, if Honda is aware of the issue. If i didnt have AA cover then i would have been screwed...