Engine Less power after 'software update'?

[Ovideo]

Hello,

I'm a Civic driver from the Netherlands and i've got a little question:

Recently my check engine light came on my 2.2 ctdi sport on a very rainy morning (2000 km on the clock). The engine lost all of it's power and it was so slow that it was almost dangerous to drive (joining the motorway).
After following the procedure in the owner manual (shutting down the engine, starting it up again after 30 seconds and repeating this a couple of times) the light still wouldn't go out.
I made a phonecall to Honda and they asked me to visit the dealer so that they could diagnose the problem with the computer.
The mechanic was testing my car for about fifteen minutes and after he came back, gave me the keys and told me that the problem was solved.
Offcourse I asked him what the problem was and why the light came on and he specifically told me that there was no problem but that the ECU needed an update and that this was known to Honda. He didn't give me any more details.
The days after I had the feeling that my Civic had less power than before the ECU was updated withe the new software. But because the car is still very fast in acceleration I thought it was all in my mind and I didn't think about it anymore.
But this weekend I went to visit a vriend in Germany for the second time with the Civic and now I discovered that it wasn't only a feeling that my car has much less power than before.......
The first time on the Autobahn I was able to reach a top-speed of 225 km/h (and would have gone faster if a sharp turn didn't let me slow down)with three persons + a lot of luggage in the car.
This time I noticed that the car really had trouble to reach higher speeds above the 160 km/h and at 200 km/h the car wouldnt even go faster anymore!! And now I was the onlyone in the car so the car was lighter than the first time......

Tomorrow I'm gonna give my Honda dealer another phonecall but I would like to hear from you of any of your cars have received this same 'software update' and have had a simmilar loss of power.
I myself think that they have done something with the turbo-pressure or injection map to get rid off the check engine light on an easy way....

***** for reading,
Ivo.

[WavyD]

Sorry to hear about your power loss. I had the same problem with a Mitsi I had. It had a problem that caused the engine light to come on al of the time. I took it to the dealer and they diagnosed a "Turbo Overboost" problem. The solution to the problem for them, was to turn down the boost! Which significantly reduced my power and top end speed.

[pcr]

I would be surprised if an approved update reduced power in the way you describe and wonder if something has been adjusted to mask a problem. When these engine warnings occur I think it's a good idea to ask for a diagnostic printout, if only for future reference, they have a habit of coming back and biting you.

[3rd Honda]

My engine management warning light (CHECK SYSTEM) spends more time on than off now.

The dealer says that they are awaiting an upgrade of the software from Honda (this saga started in November/December last year), but I have been told that the issue is over an 'oil level sensor' reading. It has been reset at the dealers several times - but there is no permanent fix available from Honda, though they are aware of the problem.

I will be even more annoyed than I am now over the issue if there is a reduction in performance - though I don't see why there should need to be.

What puzzles me is that quite a number of people seem to have 'fixes' applied - but many cars don't have the problem. Surely a software fix should only apply to a software fault - in which case it should need to be the same for all - I assume we all have the same software?

[czechplastik]

Thats a little worrying, I hope you get it sorted out dude.

[TTDegs]

sounds like it detected a problem, and went into 'limp' mode (get you home mode).

But the fix - doesn't sound right at all

I'd take it back to your dealer and demand an explanation.
If one isn't forthcoming, ask them to drive yours, then immediately drive a similar 2.2 (demo, hopefully they have one).

If all else fails, visit another dealer

and if that still doesn't get results, get it on a dyno to prove that the power is down
(There are dyno graphs for stock 2.2s in the Engine section in here )

Could be something as simple as a failing MAF (air sensor), or knackered air filter

[P@tje]

Check system light also lights up when battery is flat or almost flat.

[TimV]

This is almost funny.... here's another dutch guy, who was driving on the motorway on this rainy morning and I had the same problem! Check system came on, and lost power.

I noticed it's almost like a limiter went on, cant go past 2100 rpm. I stopped along the road and restarted it (didn't wait for 30 sec) and still the same prob. Since I was very close to our office I continued to drive, so now it's sitting on our parking and I'm anxious to find out what's wrong.

But my extra problem is that my Civic has been remapped, and I'm very afraid they will notice it and/or reset it.

So now I'll just wait for a moment and will do the 30 sec on/off method later today. If that doesn't work I'll first check with the tuning company before consulting the dealer......

[Wander]

Originally Posted by TimV

[..]here's another dutch guy [..] my Civic has been remapped [..]

Sorry for being a bit offtopic, but where did you have the remapping done? And how much did it cost you?
Are you satisfied with it?
What are the improvements?

I'm allso in The Netherlands, that's why I want to know.

[enis]

Originally Posted by Wander

Sorry for being a bit offtopic, but where did you have the remapping done? And how much did it cost you?
Are you satisfied with it?
What are the improvements?

I'm allso in The Netherlands, that's why I want to know.

Me too.

[TimV]

It cost me €350, did it @ Ziptuning a very professional team of tuning experts there! I noticed they upped the price though, but you can still get €50 off if you come with 2 cars! Just email them your cartype and you'll get a detailed offer with the coupon.

The effect was just how I hoped it would be! Took me from 140 bhp to ~180 bhp (the numbers on their site are estimates). The downside is that even that amount of power will become normal but it's still fun to race another civic at the trafficlights !! Oh and I went down from ~8L/100km to ~7L/100km (with a very sporty driving style).

==============================

Now for the System check part: I went back to my car ~2 hrs later, started > error, did the start/stop/30sec * 4 and still the error! Then I called the tuning company, but they couldn't help me before the next day.. so I called the dealer and made an appointment for the next morning...

...but returning to my car at the end of the day....... no more errors!!! I'm still going to my dealer to find out the exact source, so I'll keep you posted!

===============================

...and that was this morning. My dealer said that there was a problem, and they cleared it from the log but if it would happen again i'd have to come back for a full check (1 day). That wasn't really enough for me so I made him look up the technician to get some more details, and it turned out to be the same problem I found on this forum, posted by Kpow99:

Had my check system light come on for the first time last week phoned my delaer right away, went straight in and all it turned out to be was a faulty glow plug relay, got it booked in for 10 minute job on Thursday.

I wonder if they fixed kpow99's problem or if they just cleared the message, like they did with mine. I don't think they replace a glow plug relay in 10min's though

So for now I'll just hope it won't come back.. at least I know to wait some time to make it go away

[WavyD]

Originally Posted by TimV

It cost me €350, did it @ Ziptuning a very professional team of tuning experts there! I noticed they upped the price though, but you can still get €50 off if you come with 2 cars! Just email them your cartype and you'll get a detailed offer with the coupon.

The effect was just how I hoped it would be! Took me from 140 bhp to ~180 bhp (the numbers on their site are estimates). The downside is that even that amount of power will become normal but it's still fun to race another civic at the trafficlights !! Oh and I went down from ~8L/100km to ~7L/100km (with a very sporty driving style).

==============================

Now for the System check part: I went back to my car ~2 hrs later, started > error, did the start/stop/30sec * 4 and still the error! Then I called the tuning company, but they couldn't help me before the next day.. so I called the dealer and made an appointment for the next morning...

...but returning to my car at the end of the day....... no more errors!!! I'm still going to my dealer to find out the exact source, so I'll keep you posted!

===============================

...and that was this morning. My dealer said that there was a problem, and they cleared it from the log but if it would happen again i'd have to come back for a full check (1 day). That wasn't really enough for me so I made him look up the technician to get some more details, and it turned out to be the same problem I found on this forum, posted by Kpow99:



I wonder if they fixed kpow99's problem or if they just cleared the message, like they did with mine. I don't think they replace a glow plug relay in 10min's though

So for now I'll just hope it won't come back.. at least I know to wait some time to make it go away

Glow plug relay is really easy to change, as its easily accessible and just pulls out and the new one pushes back in.

[Ovideo]

Hi,

I contacted my dealer yesterday and asked them about the software update but they couldn't tell me what exactly was updated because they had no record of my visit in their system?!

The head mechanic told me that there were some problems with 'sensors' beeing to sensitive and that they could update the threshold in the computer in some cases to get rid of the false readings.

He assured me that the update couldn't have had any influence on the ECU map because if they had to adjust this map, there would really be something wrong with the engine and they would have replaced the faulty part.

To be sure he took my car for a short drive and he didn't think there was anything wrong with the power. He suggested to me that the feeling of 'loss in power' could be the result of getting used to the acceleration.
When I asked him about the difference in top speed he explained this by the fact that the top speed of the 2.2 diesel is 205 km/h by factory specifications and that this speed is measured by maximum resistance (hill climb, wind speeds etc.) In theory the car cán go much faster and it will if these conditions are good enough.

He may be right because today I was able to reach a top speed of 227 km/h on the Autobahn again and I'm sure this was a downhill part of the freeway.......

This proves that the mechanic was right, there really is a big difference between top-speeds in certain conditions!

So my conclusion was false and everything is okay in the end. I'm sorry for giving you the wrong information but ***** anyway for all the reactions!

[TTDegs]

good to get the result

[FWH]

I presume the factory figures are actual speed.
The speedometer will overread by at least 10% at these speeds.
205x1.1=225 which may well explain your 207.

I have found that most cars have a speedo v-max well above the factory number for this reason.