Handbrake handbrake self release (inc recall letter) - Page 30

Kremmen · 30th March 2008, 06:51

Mine is also in the batch reported as being affected but I also never had a problem and I also press the button.

I am in no rush to get it changed so I will probably wait until the summer hols when I have more time.

3rd Honda · 30th March 2008, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kremmen

Mine is also in the batch reported as being affected but I also never had a problem and I also press the button.

Mine is in the batch. It has happened once. I was sitting in traffic on the motorway - dead flat, but handbrake on. Quite suddenly and with no warning handbrake shot down with a bang! Had I been on a slope - the car would have been off. When parked I always leave it in gear, but have never noticed the handbrake down when I have returned to the car - so can't have happened then.

hamhog · 1st April 2008, 14:36

Hi Rumblefish and TruckerEm
Sorry to report that my letter to Honda was to no avail. Had a very frustrating reply from Steve Fitzpatrick who was rigidly sticking to the company line that the letter gets them off the hook. I tried a follow up phone call to him during which he actually said that the car was not defective and that I had simply not operated it correctly, he would not accept that the car was being called in because of a defect that was a threat to safety. The hand brake mod is simply to give their customers the benefit of updated technology.

Would either of you guys be prepared to help me with chapter and verse if legal advice indicates that I could win a court case.

Apart from anything else, what if one of the 80,000 dodgy cars runs back and kills some one. I think I must fight on.

Hamhog

Doubtingthomas · 1st April 2008, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamhog

Hi Rumblefish and TruckerEm
Sorry to report that my letter to Honda was to no avail. Had a very frustrating reply from Steve Fitzpatrick who was rigidly sticking to the company line that the letter gets them off the hook. I tried a follow up phone call to him during which he actually said that the car was not defective and that I had simply not operated it correctly, he would not accept that the car was being called in because of a defect that was a threat to safety. The hand brake mod is simply to give their customers the benefit of updated technology.

Would either of you guys be prepared to help me with chapter and verse if legal advice indicates that I could win a court case.

Apart from anything else, what if one of the 80,000 dodgy cars runs back and kills some one. I think I must fight on.

Hamhog

Thank you for the update although it is disappointing news to say the least. Perhaps it may help myself and other members if you could please enlighten us when the incident occurred. (Sorry if you have already told us, but I cannot find the posting if this is the case). It will be interesting to know whether the incident occurred before or after you received "the letter", if in fact you received one. If the incident occurred after you received the letter you may well have an upward struggle. Some forum members have already described "the letter" as a get out clause. If the incident occurred after "the letter" but you are adamant you applied the handbrake as per "the letter" you are still in good company as other forum members claim their handbrake still failed. Without research I cannot say how many of these were on a slope or on the level. "The letter" does however remind Civic owners that if the car is parked on a slope then the car should be left in gear, etc.

I should add that I do not necessarily agree with Steve Fitzpatrick's explanation.

hamhog · 1st April 2008, 20:56

Hi Doubtingthomas,
My incident occurred on the 3rd of March. To see my first post you would have to look in the forum for introductions, sadly it was my first. Received the letter in Dec 07. Parked on a slight slope, never touch the release button by habit. I am guessing but can only think button was touched by my arm. It seems obvious to me that this car is dangerous, insufficient protection over a long period of time against accidental human error. Food for thought.. i shift has no park, fooled my wife, nothing in the letter about that.
Hamhog

eyemdee · 1st April 2008, 22:21

The i-shift can be left in gear exactly the same as a manual gearbox. Switch off the engine with foot on brake and the display showing A-uto or 1 if facing uphill, or R-everse if facing downhill.

Although this is covered in the manual and in the leaflet sent out with the Honda letter I am not convinced that these instructions excuse Honda of responsibility. It is a point of fact that the handbrake design is faulty and in Honda's own words "may not latch sufficiently to hold the vehicle securely on a slope".

I suspect that a Small Claims Court judge may well rule that this car's handbrake is not currently fit for its purpose and find in favour of anyone claiming losses as a direct result of its failure, but who knows until it is tested.

Doubtingthomas · 1st April 2008, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamhog

Hi Doubtingthomas,
My incident occurred on the 3rd of March. To see my first post you would have to look in the forum for introductions, sadly it was my first. Received the letter in Dec 07. Parked on a slight slope, never touch the release button by habit. I am guessing but can only think button was touched by my arm. It seems obvious to me that this car is dangerous, insufficient protection over a long period of time against accidental human error. Food for thought.. i shift has no park, fooled my wife, nothing in the letter about that.
Hamhog

Thank you. If one accepts you applied the handbrake without depressing the button, I, personally, cannot comprehend the handbrake being released by your arm coming into contact with it. However, as I have stated before, I am not a mechanic or mechanical engineer. In my book, you either applied the handbrake as per "the letter" or unfortunately you did not. If you insist you did apply the handbrake as per "the letter", then Honda UK can then say, 'but you did not leave the car in gear as per "the letter" and owner's instruction book'. I may be wrong but your only consolation is that other forum members have experienced the handrake failing even when complying with "the letter". From memory those members have either been on the level or if on a slope, having left the car in gear. The point I am trying to make is that it appears handbrakes are still self releasing even when being applied as per "the letter", ignoring for a moment the leaving the car in gear aspect. As you know, from reading this thread, those members who sustained damage to their cars through the handbrake self releasing, prior to "the letter" appear to have been reimbursed by Honda UK. I can think of at least three, may be four cases. All these involved Civics rolling down a slope. Honda UK has not, to my knowledge, denied responsibility due to the fact that the car was not left in gear.
"The letter" was probably sent out by Honda UK after taking legal advice. I do not think all is lost, but apart from not being a mechanic etc, I am not a solicitor. If you have legal protection, belong to a motoring organisation or go back to your insurance company even, you may still find a way forward. Although "the letter" may appear to be a 'get out clause' the fact that handbrakes are still self releasing, even after being applied 'properly', in my estimation, may still provide you with an opportunity to claim against Honda UK. I wish you well.
As a matter of interest, my wife and I drive a '57 ES i-shift. The sooner the handbrake is replaced, the better.

Doubtingthomas · 1st April 2008, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyemdee

I suspect that a Small Claims Court judge may well rule that this car's handbrake is not currently fit for its purpose and find in favour of anyone claiming losses as a direct result of its failure, but who knows until it is tested.

I quite agree, but who will be the first?

hamhog · 2nd April 2008, 00:03

Hi did some one call, I guess the the first may be yours truly.

hondatech007 · 2nd April 2008, 00:57

Hi People,
I am honda master technician and as such speak to Honda technical and customer services on a regular basis.There is an issue with Handbrakes and a Pud campaign is in process and all civic owners will recieve a letter.However two things to be aware of :1 when engaging the handbrake you have to make sure you do it without pressing the button sounds silly but it does make a difference.2 when the rear discs get hot during normal braking obviously the discs expand when the handbrake is applied the rear pads clamp the disc then the disc naturally cool down and contract thus causing the car to sometimes roll be sure when engaging the handbrake you give it a good firm pull

Doubtingthomas · 2nd April 2008, 08:16

Thank you hondatech007
Apologies if I have missed this previously, but are you able to advise us just exactly what is wrong with the "defective handbrake" and why is it so important not to depress the button when applying it?

hondatech007 · 2nd April 2008, 19:23

i cant tell you exactly whats wrong with the handbrakes but by depressing the button when applying it causes the ratchet mechanism not to engage properly

TruckerEm · 3rd April 2008, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliebob

Did you take the car in to R...s Honda or did you take it to be sorted up country as you said a while back?
Sorry TruckerEm for the time lag I've been out of it for a while!

Yes the car went into R.... Honda to have the damage fixed.
I have also taken it there again tonight for its annual service as it needed to be done and not had the time to go see friends further up where i could used another dealership.

Also asked about the new handbrake and was told, that Honda UK would be in contact shortly!!

I said well they told us by letter it would be March/April and we are now in April. The reply was that Honda UK had ordered and received the new handbrakes but were not happy with the standard of them and sent them back and are waiting for a new batch of better quality.
It was'nt until I walked out and got in the courtsey car (a Jazz) I wondered about the person on here who has had the new handbrake. Is the new hanbrake he/she been given not up to standard either?

Hamdog sorry to hear you are having no luck with your claim. But have to say after reading when it happened and you had received the letter pointing out the problem before the accident. I sadly think you are going to have a tough job in proving that you didnt touch the button. I think I am only lucky my car was fixed by them as it happened before they sent the letters out. And that as soon as it happened I took it to the dealership so it was on record that it had happened and then they couldn't say I was pulling a fast one on when it had happened. I really do wish you luck and hope you will get your car fixed.

hondatech007 · 3rd April 2008, 20:56

Hi People,
Letter's from honda will start to go out as of monday next week.

eyemdee · 3rd April 2008, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruckerEm

The reply was that Honda UK had ordered and received the new handbrakes but were not happy with the standard of them and sent them back and are waiting for a new batch of better quality.

This was exactly what my dealer told me when mine went in for service last week.

TruckerEm · 3rd April 2008, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatech007

Hi People,
Letter's from honda will start to go out as of monday next week.

Would be seeing as my cars in the garage now!!

Any ideas how long will it take to fit? will we get a courtsey car it takes very long?

Will I have to take ANOTHER day off work AGAIN???!!! more than likely with the shifts I do

Do we get compensation for all the Bl***y running around??

TruckerEm · 5th April 2008, 12:14

My dealer confirmed yesterday that letters are being sent out starting next week.

My car has to go back in and have few things done under warranty so have asked if I can have the handbrake done al at the same time and was told yes and I 'd probably be one of the first to be done.

Kremmen · 5th April 2008, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondatech007

i cant tell you exactly whats wrong with the handbrakes but by depressing the button when applying it causes the ratchet mechanism not to engage properly

Funnily enough I always use the button out of pure habit and I've never had a problem. Once applied I always try and push it down to see if going to drop off the ratchet and it never has.

Always leave it in gear anyway.

TruckerEm · 5th April 2008, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kremmen

Funnily enough I always use the button out of pure habit and I've never had a problem. Once applied I always try and push it down to see if going to drop off the ratchet and it never has.

Always leave it in gear anyway.

Lucky you is all I can say to that!

Hollingsabre · 5th April 2008, 19:45

Its just happened this eveing! to my Type-R AGH!!!
I came home and parked the car on the front drive as normal and 100% applied the hand brake, i went inside then about 10mins later my girlfriend said why is your car in the bush! Great I thought!

It rolled about 5mins down a 10-20% gradient. Its damaged the rear bumper where it joins the wheel arch put scratches on the back of the car and scuffed my alloys! I dont know how bad the paint has been scratched as i dont want to rub it off i just want to take it to the dealer as i found it as it happend an 17:55 5mins before the dealer shuts on a saturday so i couldnt ring them! (typical)

If anyone has any legal background or advice on how i should approach the situation with the dealer in the morning it would be very helpfull.

Here are some pics of the damage and where is ended up

1st April 2008, 14:36	#583 (permalink)
hamhog Valve Cap Join Date: 4th March 2008 Location: Portsmouth UK Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Honda proving stubborn Hi Rumblefish and TruckerEm Sorry to report that my letter to Honda was to no avail. Had a very frustrating reply from Steve Fitzpatrick who was rigidly sticking to the company line that the letter gets them off the hook. I tried a follow up phone call to him during which he actually said that the car was not defective and that I had simply not operated it correctly, he would not accept that the car was being called in because of a defect that was a threat to safety. The hand brake mod is simply to give their customers the benefit of updated technology. Would either of you guys be prepared to help me with chapter and verse if legal advice indicates that I could win a court case. Apart from anything else, what if one of the 80,000 dodgy cars runs back and kills some one. I think I must fight on. Hamhog

1st April 2008, 20:56	#585 (permalink)
hamhog Valve Cap Join Date: 4th March 2008 Location: Portsmouth UK Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi Doubtingthomas, My incident occurred on the 3rd of March. To see my first post you would have to look in the forum for introductions, sadly it was my first. Received the letter in Dec 07. Parked on a slight slope, never touch the release button by habit. I am guessing but can only think button was touched by my arm. It seems obvious to me that this car is dangerous, insufficient protection over a long period of time against accidental human error. Food for thought.. i shift has no park, fooled my wife, nothing in the letter about that. Hamhog Last edited by hamhog; 1st April 2008 at 21:02. Reason: extra wording


This thread is about: handbrake self release (inc recall letter), it's in Bugs, faults and irritations at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Mine is also in the batch reported as being affected but I also never had a problem and I also press the button. I am ...

30th March 2008, 06:51	#581 (permalink)
Kremmen Krem de la Krem Civinfo guru Join Date: 7th January 2007 Location: West London Posts: 2,873 Thanks: 14 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts iTrader: (0)	Mine is also in the batch reported as being affected but I also never had a problem and I also press the button. I am in no rush to get it changed so I will probably wait until the summer hols when I have more time.

1st April 2008, 22:21	#586 (permalink)
eyemdee Wheelnut Join Date: 8th May 2007 Location: Mansfield, Notts Posts: 82 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	The i-shift can be left in gear exactly the same as a manual gearbox. Switch off the engine with foot on brake and the display showing A-uto or 1 if facing uphill, or R-everse if facing downhill. Although this is covered in the manual and in the leaflet sent out with the Honda letter I am not convinced that these instructions excuse Honda of responsibility. It is a point of fact that the handbrake design is faulty and in Honda's own words "may not latch sufficiently to hold the vehicle securely on a slope". I suspect that a Small Claims Court judge may well rule that this car's handbrake is not currently fit for its purpose and find in favour of anyone claiming losses as a direct result of its failure, but who knows until it is tested.

2nd April 2008, 00:03	#589 (permalink)
hamhog Valve Cap Join Date: 4th March 2008 Location: Portsmouth UK Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi did some one call, I guess the the first may be yours truly.

2nd April 2008, 00:57	#590 (permalink)
hondatech007 Valve Cap Join Date: 31st March 2008 Location: northampton england Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi People, I am honda master technician and as such speak to Honda technical and customer services on a regular basis.There is an issue with Handbrakes and a Pud campaign is in process and all civic owners will recieve a letter.However two things to be aware of :1 when engaging the handbrake you have to make sure you do it without pressing the button sounds silly but it does make a difference.2 when the rear discs get hot during normal braking obviously the discs expand when the handbrake is applied the rear pads clamp the disc then the disc naturally cool down and contract thus causing the car to sometimes roll be sure when engaging the handbrake you give it a good firm pull

2nd April 2008, 08:16	#591 (permalink)
Doubtingthomas Honda aficionado Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 14th August 2007 Location: Chorley, Lancashire Posts: 663 Thanks: 13 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader: (0)	Thank you hondatech007 Apologies if I have missed this previously, but are you able to advise us just exactly what is wrong with the "defective handbrake" and why is it so important not to depress the button when applying it?

2nd April 2008, 19:23	#592 (permalink)
hondatech007 Valve Cap Join Date: 31st March 2008 Location: northampton england Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	i cant tell you exactly whats wrong with the handbrakes but by depressing the button when applying it causes the ratchet mechanism not to engage properly

3rd April 2008, 20:56	#594 (permalink)
hondatech007 Valve Cap Join Date: 31st March 2008 Location: northampton england Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi People, Letter's from honda will start to go out as of monday next week.

5th April 2008, 12:14	#597 (permalink)
TruckerEm Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 3rd December 2007 Location: Cornwall Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	My dealer confirmed yesterday that letters are being sent out starting next week. My car has to go back in and have few things done under warranty so have asked if I can have the handbrake done al at the same time and was told yes and I 'd probably be one of the first to be done.