Handbrake handbrake self release (inc recall letter)

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

Having just sdiscussed this with one of my techs, the re-mod of the handbrake means that you should be able to apply the handbrake with or without the button being pressed, the ratchet system has been re-modelled to cater for this.

Thank you. If I am not contacted by Honda UK by the weekend I shall write to them. Honda UK should have the courtesy to let you know what is going on in relation to your Civic, having promised they would do so.

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by stayrich

Here's the wording of the disclaimer we were asked to sign......

3. Do not press the release button while pulling the lever up.

Irrespective of the merit or otherwise of this disclaimer, point No.3 which I have highlighted is not entirely correct, is it? According to NH Dan one can now apply the modified handbrake with or without the release button being depressed. Stayrich's Civic is a new 08 model with the modified handbrake fitted at Swindon.

[stayrich]

Hi NH Dan

The advice we recieved from trading standards was that as we are purchasing the car on HP our contract is with the finance company and not the dealer, therefore any additional paperwork should only be signed after your finance company have authorised you to do so.

Also in our case we were never told of the correct operating instructions for the handbrake at test drive or handover, I was just asked to sign the disclaimer when I collected the car after repairs. Why should I sign something that is completely inaccurate just to negate the dealers responsibility. Trading standards said the only reason we were asked to sign a disclaimer was for the dealer totry to negate there warranty obligations.

Again my advice would be find out your legal status before you talk to your dealer as they can be very persuasive and a successful outcome for you might not be the same for them.

[chrisv]

Hi,
Thought I would share part of my reply from Honda UK with you all...

"Honda UK would always advise that if the vehicle is parked as per the advice noted both in the vehicle handbook and Highway Code, namely with the handbrake fully applied without using the button and left in gear when necessary, then there is no reason why the handbrake would not hold.

I appreciate the confusion you may have regarding the instructions in the manual, however, it clearly states that the handbrake should be pulled up fully and it does not mention the use of the button other than during release of the lever. I will certainly pass on your comments regarding the handbrake instructions to the product planning department so they can consider whether amendments should be made to future owner's manuals to ensure clarity."

That doesn't sound to me like they advocate the use of the button when applying the handbrake at all!!!???

Regards,
Chris

[Doubtingthomas]

I have always maintained the advice in the owner's manual (page 173) in my copy, is ambiguous. It merely states "to apply the parking brake, pull the lever up fully. To release it, pull up slightly, push the button, and lower the lever."
This advice was superseded by "the letter" many of us received last November/December.
I think we all need a definitive answer from Honda on exactly 'how to apply the (modified) parking brake.'

[mikefennelly]

Originally Posted by stayrich

Hi Guys

Yes I do think we had a good result but our dealer has a good reputation for service. It all comes down to your negotiating skills and not just accepting what your told by the dealer.

Here's the wording of the disclaimer we were asked to sign.

1. Press the foot brake firmly
2. While pressing the brake pedal, pull the handbrake lever up smartly to its fullest extent.
3. Do not press the release button while pulling the lever up.
4. If your vehicle is parked on a hill and facing uphill, select 1st gear and turn the steering wheel away from the curb.
5. If your vehicle is parked on a hill facing downhill, select reverse gear and turn the steering wheel towards the kerb.
6. Vehicles with an automatic transmission should always be left with the selector lever position in park P.
7. ALWAYS REFER TO THE SECTION IN YOUR MANUFACTURER HANDBOOK WITH REGARD TO YOUR SPECIFIC VEHICLE.

Then there is the following statement:

My Sales Executive has made me fully aware of my vehicles correct handbrake operation during the handover,or whilst on test drive.

Signed .................................................. ....Our Customer
Signed .................................................. ....Sales Executive
Date............

I know this repeats alot of whats alreay in this thread but this is the exact wording of this particular dealers disclaimer. We refused to sign because as we are buying our car on HP our contract is with the finance company and not the dealer.

My advice to anyone in a similar situation would be negotiate with your dealer before you go to your insurance company and find out where you stand legally before anything else because it makes the negotiation process with your dealer easier, and if you buying on finance talk to your finance company as legally they own the car. Information is power.

Where is the P on the Auto Civic????

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

I have always maintained the advice in the owner's manual (page 173) in my copy, is ambiguous. It merely states "to apply the parking brake, pull the lever up fully. To release it, pull up slightly, push the button, and lower the lever."
This advice was superseded by "the letter" many of us received last November/December.
I think we all need a definitive answer from Honda on exactly 'how to apply the (modified) parking brake.'

And for safety sake, they'll say ''pull it up without using the button''

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

And for safety sake, they'll say ''pull it up without using the button''

May be. If Honda do say that implies they have no faith in their product. It's not rocket science, surely.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

May be. If Honda do say that implies they have no faith in their product. It's not rocket science, surely.

They don't call you Doubtingthomas for nothing, do they!!!

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

May be. If Honda do say that implies they have no faith in their product. It's not rocket science, surely.

Not at all, it just covers them for the one customer that hasnt checked/asked/been told about the handbrake, thinks all is well and goes off and uses the button method...

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by Moose

They don't call you Doubtingthomas for nothing, do they!!!

Thank you Moose. I chose my forum username as I doubted whether the 8th generation Civic was up to the hitherto excellent build quality and quality control I have been accustomed to from Honda for many many years. I am sorry to say the more threads I read the more I am convinced my doubts were well founded.
That having been said, I think the car is a great design and a lot going for it.
My signature says it all.......

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

Not at all, it just covers them for the one customer that hasnt checked/asked/been told about the handbrake, thinks all is well and goes off and uses the button method...

I think we will have to agree to disagree. The whole purpose of the parking brake modification is 'to reduce the inconvenience' as Honda put it in their letter. The bottom line is Honda should fit a parking brake that works effectively, with or without the button being depressed on application. Perhaps they have. I hope so and hope their response to my letter will confirm it.

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by Doubtingthomas

I think we will have to agree to disagree. The whole purpose of the parking brake modification is 'to reduce the inconvenience' as Honda put it in their letter. The bottom line is Honda should fit a parking brake that works effectively, with or without the button being depressed on application. Perhaps they have. I hope so and hope their response to my letter will confirm it.

you've misread what i wrote (or i miswrote it??)

Honda have fixed the handbrake and it will work with or without the button. HOWEVER, if they are asked ''how do i apply my handbrake??'' then they will for safety's sake say that you apply it without the button application, that way, EITHER pre or post remod, the handbrake has a safe operation.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

you've misread what i wrote (or i miswrote it??)

Honda have fixed the handbrake and it will work with or without the button. HOWEVER, if they are asked ''how do i apply my handbrake??'' then they will for safety's sake say that you apply it without the button application, that way, EITHER pre or post remod, the handbrake has a safe operation.

That to me says that Honda are not 100% certain that there new handbrake works correctly.

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by Topcat

That to me says that Honda are not 100% certain that there new handbrake works correctly.

Thank you Topcat.

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

you've misread what i wrote (or i miswrote it??)

Honda have fixed the handbrake and it will work with or without the button. HOWEVER, if they are asked ''how do i apply my handbrake??'' then they will for safety's sake say that you apply it without the button application, that way, EITHER pre or post remod, the handbrake has a safe operation.

Or, if the post mod parking brake is 100% effective either way why not say so and allow the driver to chose knowing that either way is safe? You are saying, 'Honda will say for safety's sake apply it without the button being depressed'. If you are correct it appears it is still safer to apply the post mod parking brake without using the button. I am sorry but I rest my case.

[Topcat]

This is interesting - note the bottom line

Home > News > Honda's handbrake warning News via email RSS XML Honda's handbrake warning

Tuesday, March 25, 2008



• 80,000 Civic owners receive letter
• Handbrake may not stay on
• Owners offered new part

Honda has written to 80,000 UK Civic owners for a second time, warning them about a potential handbrake problem.

It initially contacted owners last November, warning them that the handbrake may not remain on if it is applied while pushing the release button at the same time.

However, following consultations with the handbrake's designers and the Vehicle and Services Operator Agency (VOSA), Honda has now decided to write to all Civic owners offering them a new handbrake free of charge.

Despite this, Honda is not issuing a recall for the car. Company officials say a recall is not warranted as the handbrake is not faulty as long as it is operated within guidelines laid out in the users' manual.

A spokesman said: 'There have been just 29 reported cases of the handbrake causing a problem. However, further to our letter of last November highlighting to owners the correct operation of the handbrake, we have decided to offer a new handbrake for free.

'As it stands, there is only a tiny chance of the handbrake failing if it is incorrectly applied. However, to give owners 100% peace of mind, we will be sending out letters recommending that they visit their local Honda dealer to get an improved handbrake fitted.'

The problem affects Civics produced between November 2006 and November 2007. The handbrake design was subsequently revised.

A replacement part will be fitted for free to all owners of cars affected who contact a dealer.

Until owners can get to a dealer, Honda recommends they apply the handbrake without using the button.

This should go on to say - "after they have been to a dealer we recommend they still dont use the button"

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[frankenstein]

I strongly agree with doubtingthomas:
The "letter" which I and many others received last November/December says, 'rest assured that we do appreciate that this is an inconvenience; so with longevity of your ownership of the vehicle in mind we will be improving the handbrake to reduce this inconvenience in the future'

The letter equates "inconvenience" with 'pull the lever up fully without touching the release button. If these operating instructions are followed the handbrake's efficiency will be unaffected'

That is my interpretation. If one has still to avoid pressing the release button in on applying the modified handbrake what is the point of the recall/modification?
___________

Fine words indeed.

Yesterday took my year old Civic in to have its first service and have the new handbrake fitted.
Was just asked to pay for service and given service paperwork - NO PAPERWORK ON NEW HANDBRAKE - not even to say it had been fitted!
I asked if there was any documentation on how to apply the new handbrake? The girl who served me at the desk looked at me strangely and said 'no, it should be okay for you to now apply it any way.' (ie solving the inconvenience that doubtingthomas referred to above).
I said I need more than just her word and explained how my car had rolled back a month after buying it and smashed into a passing lorry - this was July before recall letters and the claim went against me for 'not applying my handbrake'. She went into servive bay and asked one of the guys there - came back and said, 'yes, okay, now you can apply it any way you want.' When I asked for this in writing was told I had to speak to 'Honda' main office (this was a Honda dealer???!!!)

So what is happening?
If we still have to apply the handbrake rigidly the way they are saying, why did we bother having the thing replaced? The 'inconvenience' is still there and surely that still denotes a 'risk' in its operation?
Shouldn't we be getting paperwork (some members allude to a 'disclaimer' that has to be signed). If my car rolls again and causes yet more damage, I can hardly say the nice girl behind the desk told me I could apply handbrake any way I want.

Like many, I was taught to apply handbrake by pushing button down and have been doing that for 20 years without issue. If the 'inconvenience' remains with the re-fit, won't be keeping this Civic for much longer!

Advice please.

[cnicolini]

I think that the work on the new handbrake must be logged on their system for your car, this is why you are nt given any paperwork. You must beable to tell that its been changed by looking at it, is nt slightly wider??? I'm getting mine changed at the first service.

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by cnicolini

I think that the work on the new handbrake must be logged on their system for your car, this is why you are nt given any paperwork. You must beable to tell that its been changed by looking at it, is nt slightly wider??? I'm getting mine changed at the first service.

I have not noticed it to be wider, just stiffer and wobbles side to side much less in the released position