Questions Buying a civic as first car?

[thorns]

I have recently got my driver's license, and I've decided to buy a new car. I would like to hear opinions about if the Civic would be a good buy.. Currenly I'm stuck between 1.6 Citroen C4, 1.6 Peugoet 307, Hyundai i30 and 1.8 Civic sport (which is the most expensive of the bunch). Baggage room is important to me, as is safety. I've heart a lot of complains about civic like "poor visibility" and so on. Is this really an issue? Are most of the other problems talked about in this forum fixed in the 08 models? Thanks for the advice..

[rallakias]

I can tell you for sure to keep away from French cars, as I have them since 1994! The quality is not as a Japan car
All of the cars you mention are not faster than civic 1.8

[TTDegs]

Thorns - first of all, congrats on passing


Civic as a first car.... Hmmm....

Personally, I wouldn't - but I'm going to make some sweeping generalisations to back that up, so please don't be offended as they are not aimed directly at you

Why Not:
Power. 140bhp, whilst not 'supercar' power, is a fair bit for an inexperianced driver. Yes, no one is forcing you to use all the power, but the Civ is very good at actually going faster than you think it is. My first car was an old Escort, which felt /sounded like it was doing 60 when it was actually doing 30. A good thing in a first car...

Size. I appreciate you want baggage room, but the Civ is actually quite big on the outside too. Which is not ideal if you don't have experience about judging gaps.

Visibility. Yes, the mirrors are great, and go a very long way towards making up for the lack of vision through the back window. Again, as an experienced driver this is therefore not an issue. As an inexperienced driver, with perhaps less traffic awareness, it could be.

It's a new car. At the end of the day, it's your money But the statistics show that newly qualified drivers are more likely to crash their cars than drivers who have been qualified for a while. Driving an older car, if you **** a wing, you shrug it off. In a brand new one, well, it hurts more



But all this is my opinion - my daughter is nearly of an age to start driving, and in theory I could buy my Civ at the end of it's lease, for her to have.
But even on a (then) 2 year old Civ, I won't be - she'll be getting probably something like a Corsa or something equally small

[l-noel]

Originally Posted by thorns

I have recently got my driver's license, and I've decided to buy a new car. I would like to hear opinions about if the Civic would be a good buy.. Currenly I'm stuck between 1.6 Citroen C4, 1.6 Peugoet 307, Hyundai i30 and 1.8 Civic sport (which is the most expensive of the bunch). Baggage room is important to me, as is safety. I've heart a lot of complains about civic like "poor visibility" and so on. Is this really an issue? Are most of the other problems talked about in this forum fixed in the 08 models? Thanks for the advice..

Buying a new car is not a simple job, but is a lot of fun

First of all do a test drive of the car you mentioned above... If you dont fall in love with one of them, you can do a comparison list with the + and - of all of them and decide which one on a pure reasonable way is the best...
But buying a new car is usually an unrational thing !

After having made your first test drive, do a first selection of 2 or 3 cars and ask the dealers for an extended test drive (half a day or a week end)... if you're too young (and the dealer dont want to lend you the car for the WE) and if you can afford it go and rent the car for more than a week end. Thats the only way to make a real opinion about a car !

Yet hear the long and experimented member of this humble forum : yes the Civic is the best car ever build in the world, that's why I drive one
Ok for some peaple the lack of rear wiper is a problem, some other dont like the firm ride of the spaceshift, or the lack of visibility in the 3/4 back range... but if you're realy in love with this machine these are just annoying little things (are'nt they Charles ?)

But I'm not a reasonable man so, I will strongly recomand you to do some extended test drive of various cars before to decide !

Cheers,

Laurent

PS : I would have killed to have a Civic as a first car

[HappyMan]

well what a range of cars you have looked at.

If I were you I would forget the peugeot 307 as it is french and everyone has one!

Citroen C4 I personally like the look of but again I would be against it because it is french.

Hyundai i30. Even though I have driven it I have been inside and I was impressed with it. There is a feeling of quality about it which is a little surprising in a car of it's class and marque. Personally I like the style too, maybe it isn't as nice as the Civic, but there is something about it.

Civic 1.8 Sport. I have the 1.8 executive and it is the best of the lot. The handling, looks and space is quite amazing. The boot is huge and carries a lot of stuff I know I have tried. The interior of the car is just out of this world, I don't mean on quality alone I mean on design and ergonomics. There isn't a car on the road that can match the interior for bringing a smile to your face.

I think the thing to do is make sure of the costs of all the cars and then take them all for a test drive and see what you think. The civic has fantastic handling and the engine is superb, but you have to find out for yourself. You need to check the running costs of each car on your list, the insurance cost and so on, but in the end you need to go for the car you feel best in.

[HappyMan]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

Thorns - first of all, congrats on passing


Civic as a first car.... Hmmm....

Personally, I wouldn't - but I'm going to make some sweeping generalisations to back that up, so please don't be offended as they are not aimed directly at you

Why Not:
Power. 140bhp, whilst not 'supercar' power, is a fair bit for an inexperianced driver. Yes, no one is forcing you to use all the power, but the Civ is very good at actually going faster than you think it is. My first car was an old Escort, which felt /sounded like it was doing 60 when it was actually doing 30. A good thing in a first car...

Size. I appreciate you want baggage room, but the Civ is actually quite big on the outside too. Which is not ideal if you don't have experience about judging gaps.

Visibility. Yes, the mirrors are great, and go a very long way towards making up for the lack of vision through the back window. Again, as an experienced driver this is therefore not an issue. As an inexperienced driver, with perhaps less traffic awareness, it could be.

It's a new car. At the end of the day, it's your money But the statistics show that newly qualified drivers are more likely to crash their cars than drivers who have been qualified for a while. Driving an older car, if you **** a wing, you shrug it off. In a brand new one, well, it hurts more



But all this is my opinion - my daughter is nearly of an age to start driving, and in theory I could buy my Civ at the end of it's lease, for her to have.
But even on a (then) 2 year old Civ, I won't be - she'll be getting probably something like a Corsa or something equally small

I have to say I agree with you TTdegs. My wife recently passed her test (about six months ago now ) and I have forbidden her from driving the civic until she has some actual road experience. There are visibility issues that can be a shock to new drivers but not to the experienced but I think more importantly is the sheer power of the 1.8 140hp engine. I have been driving for many years and to be honest the power still catches me out sometimes.

So, my wife has a Fabia to drive and in the process of changing it's colour to match the gate of our house. The fabia is 3 years old this year and I am glad she is driving that and not my 20,000 euro car.

But as I said previously go test drive some cars and have some fun.

[thorns]

Actually I've looked at Mazda 3 (which I like as well), Seat Leon, Kia Ceed, Astra and Toyota Auris. I learned to drive in a '94 Golf Diesel SW and a '06 Volvo V50, which I would think are both pretty big cars. The size of those haven't been a problem for me. Also, the dealer is including front and back park sensors for free. Is the civic really bigger than those?

And yes I did love the car at first sight, even though it's 20% more expensive than the others!

[l-noel]

Originally Posted by thorns

Actually I've looked at Mazda 3 (which I like as well), Seat Leon, Kia Ceed, Astra and Toyota Auris. I learned to drive in a '94 Golf Diesel SW and a '06 Volvo V50, which I would think are both pretty big cars. The size of those haven't been a problem for me. Also, the dealer is including front and back park sensors for free. Is the civic really bigger than those?

And yes I did love the car at first sight, even though it's 20% more expensive than the others!

No I would say smaller (from outside not inside) and lighter which is good for fuel economy !

Again Go and do some road test .... You will see !

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by thorns

I have recently got my driver's license, and I've decided to buy a new car. I would like to hear opinions about if the Civic would be a good buy.. Currenly I'm stuck between 1.6 Citroen C4, 1.6 Peugoet 307, Hyundai i30 and 1.8 Civic sport (which is the most expensive of the bunch). Baggage room is important to me, as is safety. I've heart a lot of complains about civic like "poor visibility" and so on. Is this really an issue? Are most of the other problems talked about in this forum fixed in the 08 models? Thanks for the advice..

I would take something like a cheap, used old car, as big as you can get - I know it sounds crazy but:
- you can say that you can really drive after the first 100.000 km (I know nobody with a fresh license thinks so but that's the truth) and if you have an accident, the bigger the car and the cheaper to repair, the better for you. If money is not a factor, buy new, but rather big than small
- do not buy an overly fast car, it tends to be risky for novices
- consider that if you master the driving of an old car without too many TLAs on board (TLA= three-letter-acronyms as ESP, ESR, ...) you will be able to drive any car later, but not vice versa. Also, on many "simpler" cars the steering gives you more feedback from the road, which is favourable for learning driving dynamics.
My first car was a stone-age Fiat 125, it had no ABS no ESP nothing but REW (rust everywhere ) but after three years (and my first 100.000 km) I could drift it through a curve on ice (without ice it was too lame to drift with 75 or so HP and 1,3 tons). Try this with today's gizmos...

Alternative: make an additional special driving security training (expensive but very useful) and then buy whatever you like and can afford - but make the decision after the training to avoid disappointment. Here we come to your list: All the cars you have listed are front-wheel drive, nothing wrong with that but there are drivers who will always prefer rear wheel drive and there are some good reasons for both - in short, a front-wheeler is better for lazy cruising but a rear wheeler is better for sports driving and probably for learning too...

[Unknownsoldier]

I started with a 1.2 Corsa Breeze, great car for a beginner (still is), then I graduated to my 1.8 BM' (after a few months), believe me, it takes some getting used to, and so I would agree with wait a while and get a decent car a bit later on, also your insurance will be cheaper too by then

Tom

[Courant]

I completely second all of civicfan's comments on this one!

- Buy a secondhand car, and one that you're not afraid to take some scrapes. Inevitably (although you may very well never have an accident), you will scrape things, take bits of paintwork off. Save yourself money and stress by buying secondhand, then in a couple of years you can really look forward to a newer car!

- The power issue is a real one. It's very easy to go too fast in the new civic and the 1.8 is actually a seriously quick car - 10 years ago, a golf gti (for example!) wasn't this fast. Not only will you protect yourself more buy buying an less powerful car, I also strongly believe that you will become a better driver if you learn from the start how to drive with less power - having power on tap can make you a lazy driver. You'll make better use of gears, your road positioning will be better (e.g. on motorways, overtaking), and you'll find out what you need to do to make the most of the engine in a safe setting. Then, when you get a car that can really move, you're much much better placed to get the most out of it.

- Simple is better. No VSA (not really an issue if the car is not too quick!), ok ABS is a genuine good safety feature but if you can learn to stop safely without it, then all the better, no power steering. Get in touch with the car, you'll end up driving better in the long run and appreciating all the modern touches.

I've been driving for 13 years and it was only with my last car, a 6th gen Civic, that I bought a car that was less than 10 years old. My "new" civic is still over a year old! The first car was an absolutely superb car to learn to drive with: a 73 Saab 96, a rally classic! It wasn't too fast and was dead simple so you really felt connected to the car, yet it took a fair bit of skill to drive well, and that gave me pleasure of learning because you had to learn to work around its deficiencies. Every other car since then has been simple in comparison.

How about looking at something 5-10 years old, or so? 6th generation civic (superb car, really good to drive), mk3 golf (also a good car, had one of those too), mazda 323, subaru impreza (in small engine guise, not a WRX!), panda?

Courant

[thorns]

Actually I drove for around 1 year before I got my license. The car I drove most was a '93 Golf TDI (my girlfriend's car) and the one I drive now is a '94 Golf CL SW everyday to work. I guess i'm a bit sick of old cars and thus I was looking into something newer and more comfortable.

[DeanFYoung]

hmmm...well my first car was a brand new company car (a Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec), so I wasnt worried about losing my own money in crash. I was however worried about crashing it and loosing my job, which they made abundantly clear to me! As a result, it wasnt me that wrecked it, but my (older) colleague who after 7 1/2 months of driving heaven borrowed it, and, well it didnt return!!
FYI I did manage to crash one eventually, just took another year or so.

I agree with the driving experience and safety perspective points noted above. New drivers simply dont have the experience of driving dynamics (a reasonably sweeping statement I know) as well as 'reading the road' etc...but then how do you learn it? by getting involved! I also note that you listed safety as a key point in your requirements, so I kinda think you'll be OK, as long as you understand YOUR limits / experience etc...

A lot of people I speak to tend to state that it isnt until people have a 'proper' accident that they become better drivers, as they simply dont appreciate the danger and are totally fear free...

Good luck with your decision whatever it may be...let us know what you choose, even if it isnt a Civic

[Courant]

Originally Posted by thorns

Actually I drove for around 1 year before I got my license. The car I drove most was a '93 Golf TDI (my girlfriend's car) and the one I drive now is a '94 Golf CL SW everyday to work. I guess i'm a bit sick of old cars and thus I was looking into something newer and more comfortable.

Fair enough! In which case, I'd still say that the power issue remains with the new civic. Going for one of those other cars with a 1.6l or 1.4l petrol engine is a more sensible option. A Jazz? 7th gen civic, maybe 04/05 is also excellent: loads of space, drives well, looks good (3-door model) and is averagely quick, but nothing excessive?

Courant

[thorns]

I would also like to mention that in Sweden, it's mandatory to take a "slippery driving" course where you try to brake in slippery conditions and see what happens. It's also probably one of the more strict countries in respect to passing the driving the test, the rate of passing is around 50% I believe.

I'm a bit cautious about a second hand car, since I really don't have anyone to guide me and neither I have experience in what to look for when buying a second hand, I don't want to buy one and end up with a lemon. Buying a new one seems a more safe bet.

I will also add that I'm 27 years old and have a 2 year old daughter, so I'm a safety conscious driver.. Just got that license a bit late (due to different reasons). Not a 18-yr old hotshot. I just want something comfortable, safe and enjoyable/fun to drive, with good looks and good capacity. I especially enjoy driving at night and the civic's night panel looks badass. I would imagine the civic is actually safer than our current golf as well (bigger tires, much better brakes).

I'm also considering Mazda 3 1.6 exclusive version, like the design. However I'm not sure if you can play mp3s in that (a must for me). The C4 was on a sale with free winter tyres (you need to have them in sweden) and was also running on ethanol, which means you get free parking in the city. I will also go look at Nissan Qashqai tomorrow. I haven't been able to test drive any of the cars simply because I need to have my daughter with me at all times for a few weeks since my girlfriend is away. I will try to fix a small car chair for her and see if I can get some test drives.

I was interested in the civic because when I see the car and look on the interior, it was just a great feeling, and folding up seats and big baggage was really nice too, since we always have lots to carry around.

[sallytraffic]

You are making some very good observations about the choices, your head has done a lot of work on this. You have also had some great advice from people here who are far more knowledgeable about all this than I am.

However, from your last post, while your head is being very sensible about the choices and remains open-minded it is becoming clear that your heart has been captured, and I think we all understand that !!

Whatever you decide, the very best of luck to you and many years of happy and safe motoring.

[TTDegs]

Ok thorns - as more detail comes out, I can see that many of my points don't really apply to you

I'd still be a bit wary of the 1.8, but it sounds like you are looking to buy with both your head and your heart, so that's a great start

Take one for a drive without your daughter first, to see how you get on with it, and then take both your girls out and see how you get on

[Courant]

Originally Posted by thorns

I will also add that I'm 27 years old and have a 2 year old daughter, so I'm a safety conscious driver.. Just got that license a bit late (due to different reasons). Not a 18-yr old hotshot. I just want something comfortable, safe and enjoyable/fun to drive, with good looks and good capacity. I especially enjoy driving at night and the civic's night panel looks badass. I would imagine the civic is actually safer than our current golf as well (bigger tires, much better brakes).

OK, with the extra detail, your decision making process makes more sense now! Sorry, I wasn't trying to cast doubt on your attitude to safety, it's just, well, good safety is good for everyone, and it's good to debate because you end up getting to the heart of the matter. It's clear from what you've said that you're not going to go round racing

A final thought on safety: you should make a distinction between technical driving skills (like the kind you learn for your test - the Swedish test, I'm sure, is better than the British one!) and situational awareness skills. The former can clearly be taught, the latter can only really be gained by experience and driving miles; both are important, so go easy until you get lots of miles under your belt.

Back to the car... Yes, the civic will be a much safer option than the golf you are driving: car safety really has improved significantly over the past 10-15 years. As long as you approach it carefully, I'm sure you'll get on fine with the civic's 1.8l engine. It's a really great car otherwise, I don't want to put you off it because I'm sure you'll love it, like everyone here! The mazda is also a very nice car, I really liked it when I test drove it (and I also took an MP3 CD with me and it worked, but that was on a higher spec Sport model, not sure if that's the same down the range). In many ways, it might be the more sensible choice: I think it's probably easier to drive than the civic (the visibility out of the cabin is really excellent), the engine is lower powered, it's a bit more comfort oriented. But it doesn't excite in quite the same way... guess it's your call at the end of the day!

Let us know how you get on,

Courant

[thorns]

Thanks for all the nice answers. I have another question: Is the mileage on the 1.8L engine really as good as claimed? The Mazda3 1.6L engine which is 105hp seems to have worse mileage than the Civic 1.8L, according to the specs

[f.ss.t]

Originally Posted by thorns

Thanks for all the nice answers. I have another question: Is the mileage on the 1.8L engine really as good as claimed? The Mazda3 1.6L engine which is 105hp seems to have worse mileage than the Civic 1.8L, according to the specs

Hey, i see your a fortunate young guy like me, with the posibilities of a civic on the horizon. Okay, im 18 years old, and i own an FN2. New civic type R, thats 198bhp claimed by honda, less than that at the flywheel, the civic 1.8 is claimed to be 140bhp, actually 110 at the flywheel, anyway, 1.8 civic, civic type S and civic type R are fast cars. the 8.6secs of the type S seems not so fast, but its nippy, i test drove it before going for the R. visibility is fine, okay you have to take extra care when reversing all the new civics, what got me at first, was that the rear is wider than the front, so parallel parking gets tricky when you dont want to scuff your wheels. Ive had my Type R since my 18th birthday, exactly 11 months ago, and ive upped the power with a full exhaust system and K+n kit. Power isnt an issue, of course the more the power the messier an accident can get, but no matter what car you buy, you'll always mess around. only bad thing is insurance! im paying just over 4k a year for my Type R! - just like to add...ive not crashed...but i also only got 1 minor in my driving test back in November 06, and passed 1st time - oh, and the mileage totally depends on how you drive, i can get 32mpg from my type R if im cruising, but i usually average 22-27mpg but thats only because i like testing the car! - my dad also shares this account - hense the message on the bottom about ordering the skyline....cant wait for that!