Engine Dilemma - 2 Diesel or not 2 Diesel

[JohnH]

Originally Posted by razorblewnose

Thanks for all your help and I have read everything said. I definitely cannot afford a brand new Diesel and have decided to go second hand.

Bye Bye to the Pug, and I have gone for a Cdti SE spec, 57 plate with 5,000 on the clock. It's £15k, but the finance and PCP of £5300k (I think that was that phrase, and it should be worth than that when 3 yrs old) was done and virtually reached the monthly amount I could afford after considerable haggling. I could have had a brand new 1.8 VTEC ES Leather for the same payments, but hey..the heart won in the end!

I don't think I am going to regret this at all, and I'm praying that it as reliable as you guys seem to be suggesting.

You won't regret it and the reliability (although criticised by some for understandable reasons, particularly on early cars) is a league away from Peugeot's.

In the end the choice of engine is about what you want to drive, we once bought a petrol MK IV Golf GTi because we couldn't justify the extra for the TD PDi (again, the low mileage second car), I regretted it the minute we drove off the forecourt and it's a decision you live with for years not months. Come to think of it I feel the same about my Audi 170 TDi but that's leased so only a year to go...

[mrh339]

My second car is a peugeot 307 and has had no isues whatsoever as opposed to lots of people on here having awful troubles with the civic so I think that your sweeping generalization is a bit wide of the mark.

[FWH]

Originally Posted by andyp

diesel is the fuel of satan.

better trade in my 1,8 for a 2,2 then

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by mrh339

My second car is a peugeot 307 and has had no isues whatsoever as opposed to lots of people on here having awful troubles with the civic so I think that your sweeping generalization is a bit wide of the mark.

Certainly you can always have good, or bad, luck with a particular car, and forums are not "objective" - if I were to judge by a single case my most reliable car was an Indian-built 800 ccm Suzuki. Ironical, isn't it? - but true, for this single case. The number of such single cases makes the reputation of the manufacturer, which can rise or fall with every new model.

[razorblewnose]

I know I started this thread because of the ridiculous number of faults I have had with my current 307. My first 307 was a 1.4 Hdi and I did 105,000 miles in 3 years. Only problem encountered was the COM2000 (indicator stalk) of which I had five. My current 307SW is appalling, and maybe I have just been unlucky - but it has certainly put me off Peugeot for the time being.

I did test drive the 308 this week and both the salesman & tech guy came out with the same things "this is much better than the 307, they have ironed out all the problems, the build quality is better and they have put the car through double the amount of test miles". Unfortunately, due to poor service and a poor example of a 307, they have lost a longstanding customer.

I do have that butterfly in the gut feeling about getting the Civic. Let's hope it's not like the one when you get a new girlfriend, & only lasts three months before you want to trade it in for something with a nicer looking dashboard, and a decent gearbox!

[sid taylor]

Originally Posted by razorblewnose

New to this, so don't hurt my feelings..

I have always driven diesels and currently drive a Pug 307SW SE 1.6 110HDi. By far the worse car I have ever had. Fault, fault and more faults. The staff at the dealers think I am now an employee! So time to ditch it.

My brother has the Civic 2.2 cdti SE and loves it, and believes that the dealers are pushing me toward the 1.8 vtec because they are more difficult for them to sell and that the re-sale will be far lower.

Problem is that I am torn between a new 1.8 vtec ES (with £500 incentive from Honda off price) or 2.2 cdti ES.

My new job is only 15 miles away, and as ongoing cost is an issue I am trying to balance the extra cost of the diesel engine (and service costs) against the petrol version. I should do 12,000 miles per year. Heart says diesel, nasty wallet says petrol. What are the real fuel consumption figures for both engines? I do 15 miles through Birmingham centre to work and 21 miles home on the M5 and M6.

Want to do the business in the next week, so some honest views would be most appreciated.

i am in the same dilema as yourself,i have a golf gt 2.0tdi 12 month old offered £13500 p/x against a petrol 1.8 vetech ex £17440 on the road at colliers erdington birmingham inclusive of metalic paint. as my golf is 12month old it has only covered 6000 miles the dealer says that i do not warrant paying the extra for the diesel .also honda have cheap finance on the petrol but not the diesel 6.9%apr and also offer £500 towards the deposit tried to do a deal with colliers on the diesel but finance 13.1%apr so it makes sense for me to go for the petrol,also is the price for the new car a good price does anybody know

[Honda Tech]

Buy Diesel...its An Awsome Engine.

[cb550]

Originally Posted by sid taylor

i am in the same dilema as yourself,i have a golf gt 2.0tdi 12 month old offered £13500 p/x against a petrol 1.8 vetech ex £17440 on the road at colliers erdington birmingham inclusive of metalic paint. as my golf is 12month old it has only covered 6000 miles the dealer says that i do not warrant paying the extra for the diesel .also honda have cheap finance on the petrol but not the diesel 6.9%apr and also offer £500 towards the deposit tried to do a deal with colliers on the diesel but finance 13.1%apr so it makes sense for me to go for the petrol,also is the price for the new car a good price does anybody know

I took a bank loan,buy whichever car you want then.An extended test drive of both cars is probably the only way your'e going to know which if either is best suited to you.

I'm still extremely satisfied with my diesel Type S-love the looks and handling, plus the superb engine and gearbox that comes with all 2.2's

[razorblewnose]

Originally Posted by sid taylor

i am in the same dilema as yourself,i have a golf gt 2.0tdi 12 month old offered £13500 p/x against a petrol 1.8 vetech ex £17440 on the road at colliers erdington birmingham inclusive of metalic paint. as my golf is 12month old it has only covered 6000 miles the dealer says that i do not warrant paying the extra for the diesel .also honda have cheap finance on the petrol but not the diesel 6.9%apr and also offer £500 towards the deposit tried to do a deal with colliers on the diesel but finance 13.1%apr so it makes sense for me to go for the petrol,also is the price for the new car a good price does anybody know

I have now tried both & the diesel is amazing. I wanted the ES spec, but have now got a brand new 08 SE for £15,500. One of the other guys on here hit the nail on the head...they are not selling sufficient petrol versions, so they are throwing money at them.

The SE cdti still has climate control, alloys, and more importantly a very good diesel engine. If Colliers really want your business, they can use other finance company's instead of Honda. Bank loans are at 6.9%, and that is the most you should pay.

[sid taylor]

Originally Posted by razorblewnose

I have now tried both & the diesel is amazing. I wanted the ES spec, but have now got a brand new 08 SE for £15,500. One of the other guys on here hit the nail on the head...they are not selling sufficient petrol versions, so they are throwing money at them.

The SE cdti still has climate control, alloys, and more importantly a very good diesel engine. If Colliers really want your business, they can use other finance company's instead of Honda. Bank loans are at 6.9%, and that is the most you should pay.

many thanks for the info where did you get yours from

[razorblewnose]

Originally Posted by longitude

I wanted to buy the 2.2 ES but the budget wouldn't stretch that far so saved 2K and got the SE which concerned me a bit as I am a self confessed gadget freak. However what you've never had you don't miss and if money is tight go for the SE. Economy wise I get about 40-44 mpg on Shell V-Power and 38-40 with Tesco's own on a daily journey of 7 miles on country lanes each way. On long motorway journeys I can get 50mpg with shell V if my right foot isn't too heavy!!

Looks like I will be copying you. I could have a second hand ES for £16-£16500 depending on mileage. However, the dealer contacted me today and offered me the SE 2.2cdti, any colour, full tank of fuel, mats, accessory kit (bulbs I think) and an iPod, 12 months tax for £15,500 - so deal is done and I'm even thinking of adding the leather seats for an extra £800, if the missus allows me!

[nortones2]

I'm still stuck with the previous Civic in Type S flavour. Am pondering the next switch as the car is 5 years old now. Financial glitch occurred due to wife taking-against her Yaris and buying a Jazz, which interrupted my plans! However, I'd prefer diesel and am going to get what I want, rather than take the apparent, but quite minor, economic gain from another petrol. Even the service manager advised to get the diesel rather than the Type R, and was not complimentary about the 1.8. So good choice I think for those getting the better engine

[GHGH]

Originally Posted by andyp

diesel is the fuel of satan

Sad I missed this thread!
Act of God?

[dragonglance]

i have very strong thoughts on deisel and no one has managed to come up with any better answer than "it is more economic on fuel"

They are noisy engines
You have to rapidly change gear all the time to maintain torque
You have to wear gloves when you top up at the petrol station
it will corrode the paintwork if it dribbles

i can keep going.....

[GHGH]

I must admit I haven't tried the 2.2. Drove the golf 2.0 TDI and 2.0 FSI a while a few years ago, and liked the petrol best.
If the next car is an Accord, however..

[TTDegs]

Originally Posted by dragonglance

i have very strong thoughts on deisel and no one has managed to come up with any better answer than "it is more economic on fuel"

well if that's the best you can do...

They are noisy engines - not anymore, apart from maybe the first 10 seconds when it's cold
You have to rapidly change gear all the time to maintain torque - definately not true. check out the power / torque graphs in the 'more ooomph' thread in the Engine section.
You have to wear gloves when you top up at the petrol station - I have never worn gloves when I fill up, either petrol or diesel.
it will corrode the paintwork if it dribbles - no idea on this one, but are you saying that petrol doesn't?

i can keep going.....

bring em 'on!

[TTDegs]

found the torque results:

[TTDegs]

sorry - I've assumed you mean diesel vs petrol here - not LPG or nuclear power or something

[GHGH]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

it will corrode the paintwork if it dribbles - no idea on this one, but are you saying that petrol doesn't?

No difference at all! I'll give you that.

[civicfan]

Originally Posted by dragonglance

i have very strong thoughts on deisel and no one has managed to come up with any better answer than "it is more economic on fuel"

They are noisy engines
You have to rapidly change gear all the time to maintain torque
You have to wear gloves when you top up at the petrol station
it will corrode the paintwork if it dribbles

i can keep going.....

Frankly I can't agree with anything but the paintwork issue, but that's the same with petrol. You have to change gear quickly if you have a lame donkey without a turbo, yes, but if you have a weak petrol (to compare like with like) you get the same. Some raise the issue that you need a bigger engine to get the same HP out of a diesel, even that isn't valid any more, proof the latest BMW and Audi engines. The gloves: if the guy before you was too stupid to fill up without smearing diesel on the grip, gloves are a good idea, just as with petrol (it doesn't evaporate that quickly).

A diesel will also be better at towing loads (that's one of the reasons 99% heavy lorries are diesels), and a diesel will actually be quieter at high speed than a petrol of equal HP - because of the lower rpm at high speed. For the same reason, the diesel will be unsuitable for the ones who prefer "racing-like" engine sound or high-rev driving, this is simply not possible with a diesel (maybe with a small exception for the latest biturbos). Oh, and a diesel engine is generally heavier.

I think that the argument between diesel and petrol fans is becoming increasingly "doctrinal", and therefore the main rationale behind the diesel remains the same: better fuel economy (which is however diminished by unfair taxes)