Dealers Dealer problems

[markvirgo]

I took my car in for its 2nd year service and the car has done under 10k.
I have the morning rear end noise and the black tinted lacquer has started to peel from the boot spoiler (original one not the sports add on).

The dealer has said that there is no problem with the rear shocks or suspension and that the boot spoiler will be changed on warranty.

I went to pick up the car today and was told the boot spoiler was on order and that everything else was OK.

When they went to bring the car around to the front of the dealers I read the service sheet to see that it had down that on the rear tyre was a slow puncture and when I asked about it they said that the tyre was out of stock.

I then went into one and said that if I drove out of the dealers and had a blow out then I would be holding them responsible, to that they gave me a courtesy car and said they would have it done tomorrow.

I did not have any problem with the tyre's and having 18" wheels with low profile tyre's I would have expected to notice them low.

Now will see what the cost will be.

[TTDegs]

I can certainly understand why you weren't too chuffed, but (sorry!) you might have been better off driving it (carefully!) to your local favourite tyre shop...

get some tyre prices (inc fitting) printed off for comparison before you pick it up - if they don't compare too well to what the dlr charges you then you might want to be prepared.

[Dimplyred]

Yes TT is right the main dealers generally aren't the best option for tyres.

[markvirgo]

I was supprised to pay £115 fitted for my Yokohama 225/40/18
Looking on the web that was a good price.

And from the tyre post.

4) Yokohama - £112 - £120. These are very good tyres also. Again, popular with Tuners of Japanese cars in particular.

Not to bad

[TTDegs]

I'm very pleasently surprised - nice one

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by markvirgo

I took my car in for its 2nd year service and the car has done under 10k.
I have the morning rear end noise and the black tinted lacquer has started to peel from the boot spoiler (original one not the sports add on).

The dealer has said that there is no problem with the rear shocks or suspension and that the boot spoiler will be changed on warranty.

I went to pick up the car today and was told the boot spoiler was on order and that everything else was OK.

When they went to bring the car around to the front of the dealers I read the service sheet to see that it had down that on the rear tyre was a slow puncture and when I asked about it they said that the tyre was out of stock.

I then went into one and said that if I drove out of the dealers and had a blow out then I would be holding them responsible, to that they gave me a courtesy car and said they would have it done tomorrow. By your own admission you didnt even know about it so if they hadnt said anything, who would you have held responsible then??

I did not have any problem with the tyre's and having 18" wheels with low profile tyre's I would have expected to notice them low.

Now will see what the cost will be.

So you are upset that you didnt notice the slow puncture and that the dealer did?? Or that they were out of stock (quite understandable for an 18'' lo pro tyre, not your every day tyre).

Originally Posted by markvirgo

I was supprised to pay £115 fitted for my Yokohama 225/40/18
Looking on the web that was a good price.

And from the tyre post.

4) Yokohama - £112 - £120. These are very good tyres also. Again, popular with Tuners of Japanese cars in particular.

Not to bad

And now that the dealer has replaced the tyre at a competitive price, you are surprised??

Let me summarise, you take the car in for a service which by your own admission has been done satisfactorilly. In doing this, a slow puncture is noticed and you are made aware of this. (i can assure you that at the margins dealerships have on tyres, it wouldn't be worth 'finding' punctures.) And yet,at the end of it all, i get the distinct impression that you are not that happy with the outcome??

[markvirgo]

When I phoned up to book the car in I was told they would phone me back. 2 days later and no call so I had to ring them again.
There was no courtesy car available so I had to walk home then walk to work then walk from work back to the dealers. (And no I am not to lazy to walk)

I was not happy in the fact they never informed me about the puncture either by phone or verbally. NO COMMUNICATION

They could have used the tyre weld and informed me to get it changed when I phoned up. NO FORWARD THINKING

Sending me out on the road to drive up-to MPH with a puncture. DANGEROUS

Having passed my city & Guilds 383 service & Repair Motor vehicles Level 1&2 I know that you can not send a customer out in a defective vehicle and if you did you would be held liable.

DO YOU SEND OUT YOUR CARS WITH DEADLY DEFECTS?. I BET NOT.

The car was OK when I took it in and they test drove the car to find the rear noise so they may have punctured the car. We will never know and I am happy to leave it there.

The out of stock I can understand they do not stock every spare part but how come they managed to find one in 24 hours after I complained and also how there was no courtesy car available until I complained.

Yes I was surprised at the cost of the tyre as £220 for a second service of changing the oil and filter and inspecting the car is a bit if a joke.

It should be more like £50 oil & filter and £50 inspection total cost £100 max.

Not even 1 hours work.

The service had been done to my satisfaction as you can not go very wrong with what they had done.

When I picked up the car they were very apologetic about what had happened and it was all OK in the end.

I am not anti dealer and there may be some very good dealers out there including your-selfs.

At least you are on here trying to communicate with your customers.

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by markvirgo

When I phoned up to book the car in I was told they would phone me back. 2 days later and no call so I had to ring them again.
There was no courtesy car available so I had to walk home then walk to work then walk from work back to the dealers. (And no I am not to lazy to walk)

I was not happy in the fact they never informed me about the puncture either by phone or verbally. NO COMMUNICATION

They could have used the tyre weld and informed me to get it changed when I phoned up. NO FORWARD THINKING

Sending me out on the road to drive up-to MPH with a puncture. DANGEROUS

Having passed my city & Guilds 383 service & Repair Motor vehicles Level 1&2 I know that you can not send a customer out in a defective vehicle and if you did you would be held liable.

DO YOU SEND OUT YOUR CARS WITH DEADLY DEFECTS?. I BET NOT.

The car was OK when I took it in and they test drove the car to find the rear noise so they may have punctured the car. We will never know and I am happy to leave it there.

The out of stock I can understand they do not stock every spare part but how come they managed to find one in 24 hours after I complained and also how there was no courtesy car available until I complained.

Yes I was surprised at the cost of the tyre as £220 for a second service of changing the oil and filter and inspecting the car is a bit if a joke.

It should be more like £50 oil & filter and £50 inspection total cost £100 max.

Not even 1 hours work.

The service had been done to my satisfaction as you can not go very wrong with what they had done.

When I picked up the car they were very apologetic about what had happened and it was all OK in the end.

I am not anti dealer and there may be some very good dealers out there including your-selfs.

At least you are on here trying to communicate with your customers.

Totally understood and please don't take my comments in the wrong way, maybe i misread the 'tone' of the posting.

With regards to the service cost, you are quite right with your cost assumptions of approximately £100. Add to that the hours labour at a little over £100 per hour (inc vat) and bingo, your £200+ service.

[simon1]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

With regards to the service cost, you are quite right with your cost assumptions of approximately £100. Add to that the hours labour at a little over £100 per hour (inc vat) and bingo, your £200+ service.

I think markvirgo was implying that the total cost should be £100 - £50 inc labour for the oil and £50 labour for the inspection. That may seem simplistic but it is certainly a more realistic figure given the cost of wages in the UK. What I find amazing is that you say the labour charge is over £100/hr!! I doubt that I'm alone in thinking that a mechanic gets far less than £100/hr, I would guess that it may be something like £10 -12/hour? Let's say it's £15, that leaves a very healthy profit for the dealership.

[markvirgo]

Spot on Simon1
That was one of the reasons why I didn't pursue a Mechanics career.

[TTDegs]

If only it were so cheap!

Mechanic gets paid £15 per hour (say)
Employer has to pay NI on top of that, plus any pension scheme etc etc
Then the employer has to purchase one or two spanners / hydralic lifts / specialist tools
And somewhere to store them
Not to mention somewhere to use them...
And then you have the back office staff - the ones who book the car in, and are on hand to make sure you get a cup of coffee
Which means buying the coffee
and the coffee maker
and the space to put the coffee maker in
And the other back office staff - the manager who makes sure that the mechanic and everyone else turns up to get your car worked on
That is before we even start to consider the overheads associated with having a bunch of brand new cars sitting outside, enticing you to go in in the first place...


I'm not saying there is no profit in the labour charges, but I bet it isn't a huge amount when all is done and dusted!

[markvirgo]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

If only it were so cheap!

and are on hand to make sure you get a cup of coffee
Which means buying the coffee
and the coffee maker
and the space to put the coffee maker in

Coffee?. I knew that I forgot to ask for something.

[FWH]

As TT is pointing out there is a big differance between gross margin and profit. There are numerous fixed overhead costs which need to be covered.

They could of course split the bill into "labour" and "overhead", but it would not make a differance to the end cost.

[Jack The Lad.]

Also, there is the costs involved in maintaining the building fabric, upgrading of showroom floor areas and paintshop facilities etc, as required
My old Honda dealership, had a visit a few years back, from "the men in black" from Honda U.K.
They required additional showroom space, so more cars could be put on display.
Major upgrades to the paintshop etc.
All seemed to be working fine as it was, but Honda wanted it and they got it.
I think back then, the costs came to over 200k.
I was told this, as I became quite friendly with the owner of the dealership and he new what my job was.

[simon1]

Points taken, but there is also a profit made from the selling of the new cars, profits from selling the used cars, profits or commission from any finance deals the dealer is able to convince a customer to undertake, profits from the parts dept, so it's not just the labour charges that push the dealer into the black.

Just for the exercise (and of course I am guessing a bit here) let's assume 3 mechanics each spend 40 chargeable hrs a week fixing cars. That's 120x£100=£12000/week, less say, £15/hr for wages, NI, etc to those mechanics. It leaves a profit of £10200 a week or over half a million pounds a year just from the workshop. Add in other profits mentioned above and it seems that the dealership has a pretty good income from which to work. Yes, there are huge overheads running a business like that, but remember there are massive tax deductions for business expenses like premises, capital, etc.

I'm sure someone who is more in the know will correct my figures, but at the end of the day, I don't think there are many owners of dealerships who are starving.

[FWH]

Of course there is profit in it.

Running a business is not charity, everyone is in it for the money.

[simon1]

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a profit, but if you are charging over £100 an hr for someone to whom you might pay a maximum of £15, I think the customer is being ripped off.

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by simon1

I'm not saying there shouldn't be a profit, but if you are charging over £100 an hr for someone to whom you might pay a maximum of £15, I think the customer is being ripped off.

Others have begun to explain the costings and reasonings for them and dont get me wrong, it is a hell of a lot of money but you have many variables.

£100 per hour inc vat.
£82.50 pre vat
£15.00 for the techs pay
£67.50
take NI out of that (god knows at what rate or cost)

Less costs overall for the technicians training, tooling, premises, etc etc and I can assure you you are not left with a heck of alot.

Do you know how much it costs a business to send a technicial on a training course these days?? Thought not.

Again, whilst it is a lot of money, I can assure you that for a London dealership £100 per hour inc vat is not a high rate.

[FWH]

Sorry, what is "NI"?

[simon1]

Originally Posted by FWH

Sorry, what is "NI"?

National Insurance