[Other cars] Which to get - Civic 2.2CDTi or Astra VXR

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by NH Dan

Charming, I think.....

I've spent over 7 years as a Vauxhall salesman, 2 as a a VW salesman and am now Honda, so in answer to the previous (sarcastic) question, yes , I've driven plenty of VXR's and each and every one of them goes sideways on takeoff with TC on or off. The torque steer is appalling. Its not just JC that says it, its EVERY journo who has driven one and written about it.

I'd be interested to see how much of the 19-20K Neemstar's friend gets back after one year of ownership, 11-12 at a guess....

i agreed there is torque steer, but imo its not as bad as it is made out.

yeah probably , and im sure he paid more due to the remap and exhaust and leathers so he will be losing more. to be honest i don't think it makes much difference too him though if you get what im saying. $$$$$$

[19ninety]

Just on the subject of torque steer and out of interest, how bad is it in the corners? Thinking back after driving a couple of FWD turbo cars a few years ago I remember the application on power coming out of corners and roundabouts would result in a pretty heavy drag to the left, especially on cornering right. Has modern technology improved this at all?

[garytheobald]

If it was me Id go for the civic, I have a type r which i got after testing golf,225 ctr and vxr, I instantly dismissed the gti and vxr as I found them dull being truthfull if I could have got the same leasind deal I would have chosen the 225 but the deal I got on the ctr was simply unmissable and the noise, the looks(in red) the interior wow..........get one youll love it Oh yes and i get 33 mpg

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by 19ninety

Just on the subject of torque steer and out of interest, how bad is it in the corners? Thinking back after driving a couple of FWD turbo cars a few years ago I remember the application on power coming out of corners and roundabouts would result in a pretty heavy drag to the left, especially on cornering right. Has modern technology improved this at all?

like any car throttle control is important when exiting a corner
imo i did not find any problem but it is well balanced when shifting weight from one side to the other

[gjackson]

How amusing the VXR is getting slagged off for 'torque steer' the Civic 2.2 has the same amount of torque!

Web rumour is the Astra VXR that TG had was a pre production one and was running SRi suspension.

Most freelance journos tend to crib other reviews hence the constant quote of torque steer on the VXR.

Granted some cars are more prone to torquesteer than others but at the end of the day most of it is induced by poor driving.

Its a bit kettle and pot quoting JC after he forced the Type R to understeer like an oil tanker just so he could have an angle for his 'test'.

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by gjackson

How amusing the VXR is getting slagged off for 'torque steer' the Civic 2.2 has the same amount of torque!

Web rumour is the Astra VXR that TG had was a pre production one and was running SRi suspension.

Most freelance journos tend to crib other reviews hence the constant quote of torque steer on the VXR.

Granted some cars are more prone to torquesteer than others but at the end of the day most of it is induced by poor driving.

Its a bit kettle and pot quoting JC after he forced the Type R to understeer like an oil tanker just so he could have an angle for his 'test'.

Its not whether its got the same, more or less torque, its more to do with where and how its applied and how well balanced tha car is suspension wise. The VW golf GTI edition 30 has 240 bhp and similar torque, yet under any amount of thrashing, still manages to pull away in a straight line.

You dont need to thrash one to find out. Take one for a test drive. sit at some lights and give it some encouragement when you pull away, even the most mediocre of pull aways and, unless VX have tweaked the suspension, you'll feel the front lift and pull slightly left..

[alanwalne]

Originally Posted by Robbieee

Why would he lie? Hes alot of things but i am pretty sure he tells the truth even if it is abit bias to what he drives himself...

Have you seen his Type R rubbishing??

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by alanwalne

Have you seen his Type R rubbishing??

I wouldnt go so far as to say he was a liar. Opinionated maybe.

As far as i recall, he said that the new type r wasnt as good as the previous car as you couldnt have as much fun in the newer one, what with its increased weight and the safety systems that are employed to stop the car going wayward.....

[Kremmen]

JC commented/moaned on :

"Unacceptable suspension"
"Silly rear spoiler position"
"Seats that move and stay forward after tilting to access rear seats"
"Key inserted bleeper"

Can't remember any more of his ramblings

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by Kremmen

JC commented/moaned on :

"Unacceptable suspension"
"Silly rear spoiler position"
"Seats that move and stay forward after tilting to access rear seats"
"Key inserted bleeper"

Can't remember any more of his ramblings

ok, on the fence time (and in no way am I backing him).

1 - The suspension is hard and harder than most, especially with Rages attached.

2 - For those who have never driven a new shape civic, the rear spoiler (and the larger spoiler on the type R) IS in the middle of what is 'normally' a clear screen.

3 - the seats aren't memory seats where a lot of similar price/ranged 3 drs are.

4 - key inserted bleeper - to my knowledge, most modern cars have some kind of warning noise to alert the driver that the keys are still in the car.

Don't lets forget also that alot of the cars that the press drive are pre-production models, 'press spec' etc and as always, they get ragged to the limit. When the VX220 was launched to the press at Brands Hatch, the day started with 6 cars, by the end of the day there were 2 left in a usable condition after the days 'testing'.

[NEEMSTAR]

"Unacceptable suspension" - personal preference , i don't mind it and probably expected it
"Silly rear spoiler position" - blocks out other peoples lights and easy enough to gauge where the rear of the car is anyway
"Seats that move and stay forward after tilting to access rear seats" - a small inconvenience - that is why everyone gets in through the passenger seat
"Key inserted bleeper" - so?

his opinions seem to sway a lot of peoples thoughts when really they are just that - opinions

i love top gear though

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by NEEMSTAR

"Unacceptable suspension" - personal preference , i don't mind it and probably expected it
"Silly rear spoiler position" - blocks out other peoples lights and easy enough to gauge where the rear of the car is anyway
"Seats that move and stay forward after tilting to access rear seats" - a small inconvenience - that is why everyone gets in through the passenger seat
"Key inserted bleeper" - so?

his opinions seem to sway a lot of peoples thoughts when really they are just that - opinions

i love top gear though

This is the problem, not everyone looks at these things as just that, opinions - 'if TG say its wrong, it must be.'

I have have spoken to so many people/customers over the years who dont like this or that because the rear legroom is bad or the doors dont open enough, theres too much road noise etc all because Top Gear or Which or whoever have said so, and have then ended up buying the car because when they drove it, it wasn't a problem to them or they didnt even notice this major design flaw.

Test drive the car yourself, by all means read up on it, learn about things that others dont like but make a judgement yourself. If only more people would understand that programs like Top Gear are there not just to comment on cars but to sensationalise them. Thats why ferraris, lambos, porsche's etc are on there more than peugeot 106's, minis, fiestas etc.

yours, frustrated of London

[ashkeenon]

Hi

Did you say this was a leased car, the reason im asking is, if its a leased car through a company its fine however if your work does a car leasing scheme you will be liable to pay an additional tax on top of the leasing price.

I will also recomend the civic i had a test drive in the VXR, audi A3, Golf GTI and of course they Civic 2.2 1.8 sport and the type R, my prefrence was the type R hands down no competition opposed to the VXR as for the looks and interior golf and audi was nice but for the extra luxery audi your looking at 23k +.

However thats just my prefrence, good luck in choosing.

Ash

[TTDegs]

Originally Posted by ashkeenon

Hi

Did you say this was a leased car, the reason im asking is, if its a leased car through a company its fine however if your work does a car leasing scheme you will be liable to pay an additional tax on top of the leasing price.

I will also recomend the civic i had a test drive in the VXR, audi A3, Golf GTI and of course they Civic 2.2 1.8 sport and the type R, my prefrence was the type R hands down no competition opposed to the VXR as for the looks and interior golf and audi was nice but for the extra luxery audi your looking at 23k +.

However thats just my prefrence, good luck in choosing.

Ash

depends on the lease scheme

and bear in mind that the base list price of the car can bear no obvious connection to the monthly lease price
(due to your aforementioned benefit in kind tax - which is based on emmisions brackets)

For me, on my scheme, it would have cost me about £50+ per month extra to go for the R GT over the 2.2 EX, despite similar on the road prices for private buyers.

but at the end of the day, nintey has made the right choice

[alanwalne]

It shows how desparate Vauxhall are to shift metal if you can get a Civic 2.2 SE for the same monthly outlay as a 3-4k more expensive on paper Astra.

[Opelguy]

Originally Posted by Coldwarkid

You have registered here.

You have already made your choice.

I registered here and decided to buy another Astra after reading the over-crowded bugs and faults-section of this website.
As for trusting Top Gear to be a serious motoring show with truthful opinions on the way cars are and how people living in country X behave is just ludicrous.
TG is very good entertainment, not journalism.

[coolice]

Originally Posted by Opelguy

I registered here and decided to buy another Astra after reading the over-crowded bugs and faults-section of this website.
As for trusting Top Gear to be a serious motoring show with truthful opinions on the way cars are and how people living in country X behave is just ludicrous.
TG is very good entertainment, not journalism.

Hey,

Not wanting to be picky, but you've not really read any Astra forums then?

I think we have to be honest here and say that all cars no matter what manufacturer all have issues whcih could have been done/made better, but haven't.
Personal preference, as mentioned here plays an important part in any car selection. For me, having just brought a Type S GT 2.2 diesel all I can say so far is that I love it, suspension is hard yes but lets face it the Type S cars are marketed as being a sporty drive and for me that is one of the allures to actually buying the car. Out on the road the suspension feels taught and solid.

I drove a mates Vauxhall Astra 3 door Sport Hatch and it was a nice car admittedly, but it was just an Astra at the end of the day. Nothing truly special or individual it just did what it said on the tin so to speak.
Also you need to look at the value of the cars after 3 years, the Honda will keep a lot more if it's value and if you price up an Astra on Vauxhalls web site to match the Civic it's more expensive.

For me the choice was simple, out of the two I chose for me I feel the best car. But thats my opinion.

Ian

[Opelguy]

Originally Posted by coolice

Hey,

Not wanting to be picky, but you've not really read any Astra forums then?

I've read all manner of forums for over a year and consider myself a compulsive AON-reader and the bugs and faults section is not nearly as crowded over there.

I like the Civic, thats why I registered. I may consider a late model Civic next time it's time to change cars, but the early models, no thanks.

[coolice]

Originally Posted by Opelguy

I've read all manner of forums for over a year and consider myself a compulsive AON-reader and the bugs and faults section is not nearly as crowded over there.

I like the Civic, thats why I registered. I may consider a late model Civic next time it's time to change cars, but the early models, no thanks.

Hey,

I agree on the later Civic, from what I to have read the early ones did have the odd hiccup which over times does get fixed, but in the mean time their owners have to suffer the faults.

I've been fortunate and just last Saturday took delivery of a 2008 Civic, which to all intents and purposes should be trouble free and looks to be that way so far.

As I mentioned a friend of mine has just brought the Sport Hatch Astra and so as well as being different and having a differnet car myself, it will be interesting to hear any problems he has in time if any at with luck.

Ian

[kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co]

No Comparison!
A VXR for sure.
Build quality in this generation civic is poor compared to previous Hondas.
Maybe because this one is built in Britain!!