Engine diesel vs petrol Type S

Chris-B · 26th April 2008, 21:43

Now obviously Honda made the Type S available in 1.8 petrol and 2.2 diesel engines for a reason... yes?

What are the pro's and cons for either engine?

All I can figure is that you may pay less tax for the diesel and it may even get you further on a full tank than the petrol engine (albeit for more expense, correct me if I'm wrong)

also i've heard that they're both very similar in performance.

Why then the petrol at all?

Vet_2010 · 26th April 2008, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris-B

also i've heard that they're both very similar in performance.

Why then the petrol at all?

The diesel actually has slightly better performance than the petrol

avboothroyd · 26th April 2008, 21:58

I was given a 1.8 as a replacement car while they fixed the irritating dashboard rattle in my 2.2 type S.

The 1.8 obviously revs much higher, and it is very quick to respond, especially off the mark in 1st.

However, the 2.2 has the turbo, so when the revs are at about 1800ish, along with the much higher torque, you can really feel the additional power.

I was a bit dissapointed with the 1.8 in that i felt there should be more power with the revs and i was waiting for the kick of the turbo which never came.

For me, the 2.2 is definitely the better choice.

ps. they fixed teh rattle in the centre console, but would you believe, I have now got another rattle from the magnificent sun roof!!

warmit123 · 26th April 2008, 22:03

Deisel is quicker according to reports!

jaysen · 26th April 2008, 23:11

my wife has the nissan almera 2.2 dci 136bhp 6 speed & i have the civic ES 1.8. i drive both cars hard because of the job i do. the nissan is great for the 1st few seconds because of the torque. it cruises on the motorway in 6 gear just above 3000 revs at 100mph. as for the civic 1.8 petrol you get a better driven experience as you can use the high revs for slowin in to corners & exiting out on max power. you try & do that in a diesel

. the 1.8 & 2.2 have the same 0-62 & top end. its down to preference

Vet_2010 · 26th April 2008, 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysen

the 1.8 & 2.2 have the same 0-62 & top end. its down to preference

Nope, the diesel is quicker to 60 than the petrol. The figures vary slightly between publications but the diesel is consistently quoted as being quicker.

Unknownsoldier · 27th April 2008, 00:03

TBH, the diesel and petrol are about the same 0-60, when comparing run in and technique for changing gear, but if you drive it properly the petrol is more responsive IMHO.

Tom

Vet_2010 · 27th April 2008, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier

TBH, the diesel and petrol are about the same 0-60, when comparing run in and technique for changing gear, but if you drive it properly the petrol is more responsive IMHO.

Tom

True, but you never know when that whole 0.3/4 seconds might come in handy

I've never driven the petrol so couldn't comment, in fact the only petrol I've ever driven was a 1.2 Clio so it woulnd't really be a fair comparison. My car is due to go in for recall work on Friday so I might try and convince them to let me take the 1.8 for the couple of hours they have mine!

robbo51 · 27th April 2008, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier

TBH, the diesel and petrol are about the same 0-60, when comparing run in and technique for changing gear, but if you drive it properly the petrol is more responsive IMHO.

Tom

More responsive??

Have you driven a diesel?
Peak torque is 2000 rpm..so how can petrol be more responsive?
I have driven a petrol and found it to be lacking...it felt flat in comparison.
The only way I could get it to go was to thrash it to death and even then it felt slower..
The diesel is smooth, quiet and pulls well in all gears.

Unknownsoldier · 27th April 2008, 10:22

Ahhh, depends how you use the clutch and how it's run in, but I'm sure the petrol can be driven to be as good if not better. The one single problem with the diesel is the turbo, and the lag, once thats spooled up, then it is quicker, however it has to spool up first, if your quick on the gears and can drop the clutch just right, then it'll be too close to call, especially if you don't use the clutch.

Tom

Courant · 27th April 2008, 11:08

Tom's absolutely right. I have a CTDI but test drove the petrol a fair bit, and my previous car was an old gen civic. The diesel has a lot of grunt and it is economical (the main reason for getting it, I do 25,000m+ a year) and I really enjoy it. But, with careful gear changing i think the petrol is a better drivers car because the power delivery is super smooth - with the diesel, the torque kick and turbo lag combined can make coming out of corners a little rough! I think I'd certainly be looking to make my next car a petrol, this being by first foray into turbo-diesel land and finding it an interesting experience.

Also, the economics are different. Yes, you get more mpg but diesel is more expensive and the diesel costs more to buy from the outset. The tax difference (is there one actually?) is negligible because it's far outswamped by fuel and depreciation costs. From my calculations, buying secondhand (1-2yrs old) the diesel only made sense if I was doing 20,000m+ a year. Otherwise the petrol is actually the cheaper option. If you buy new, you actually need to be doing more miles to justify it financially.

BTW driving a VTEC in the higher rev ranges isn't "thrashing", it's designed to be driven like that! The sight of 7000rpm shouldn't scare you

Courant

Pottsy · 27th April 2008, 11:32

This is such a regular topic, that I have done a summary in a wiki page:

Petrol vs Diesel - Civinfo Wiki

Unknownsoldier · 27th April 2008, 11:35

Hehehehehe, it'll rage til' the end of time. Still say petrol is better though

Tom

Pottsy · 27th April 2008, 11:40

I was careful with my wording "which engine suits which owner the best".

Diesel is still better though.

DerChef · 27th April 2008, 16:19

I never get involved with these petrol vs diesel debates (well looks like I just have

) .

I am a very strong athiest and never preach or eulogise to anybody to do anything in life. Find out what works for you with two LONG test drives.

Ultimately its how the car is to drive that matters and its refinement and the way it delivers its power.

Costs are exremely transient they can be effected by taxation, environmental legislation and even the time of the year.

Munro · 27th April 2008, 18:33

That looks like a somewhat biased graph on the Wiki. The Standard diesel is rated at 138hp max like the petrol. The wiki graph shows 153 (@ 10% more !). Are all standard diesels producing this much extra power ?

Petrol vs Diesel - Civinfo Wiki

The other downside with diesels is that once they get up to higher mileages you are more likely to have some major engine repair bills. For example when things like Turbos, injectors and high pressure fuel pumps expire (which is not unusual on modern diesels).

I do think the Honda Diesel is a particularly good engine - fantastically torquey and smooth. The Diesel is closer to type R price both new and second hand.

Good advice from DerChef - try the cars and see which you like best. Some prefer Diesels, some prefer petrol.

Moose · 27th April 2008, 18:38

It all depends on which way you swing!

Chris_J · 27th April 2008, 20:55

I've now got myself into the same pickle. I wanted a diesel, and it is a fantastic drive in terms of the torque shove you get.

However, I would have to maybe go 06/56 for what I want without leather or the roof etc on an EX, yet I can get a petrol EX with leather and panoramic roof on an 07 for the right money.

The insurance is £30ish cheaper on the petrol but the tax is £40 more so no big deal there. However, how do I work out the real cost of ownership? I'm doing 12k PA maybe 13. Now the gap between petrol and diesel is 10p per litre, which over 45 litres equates to £2 or there abouts. Arrrggghhh annoying somewhat.

Chris-B · 27th April 2008, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_J

Now the gap between petrol and diesel is 10p per litre, which over 45 litres equates to £2 or there abouts. Arrrggghhh annoying somewhat.

yes, but the same amount of diesel will get you further. Also, are you really going to be bothered about an extra £2 to fill the tank when one is obviously well off enough to own and run a car in the first place?

Pottsy · 27th April 2008, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munro

That looks like a somewhat biased graph on the Wiki. The Standard diesel is rated at 138hp max like the petrol. The wiki graph shows 153 (@ 10% more !). Are all standard diesels producing this much extra power ?

Yep! It seems to be a consistent theme amongst those who have dyno'd the standard diesel.

26th April 2008, 21:43	#1 (permalink)
Chris-B Valve Cap Join Date: 6th April 2008 Location: Limassol, Cyprus Posts: 43 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	diesel vs petrol Type S Now obviously Honda made the Type S available in 1.8 petrol and 2.2 diesel engines for a reason... yes? What are the pro's and cons for either engine? All I can figure is that you may pay less tax for the diesel and it may even get you further on a full tank than the petrol engine (albeit for more expense, correct me if I'm wrong) also i've heard that they're both very similar in performance. Why then the petrol at all?

26th April 2008, 23:11	#5 (permalink)
jaysen Valve Cap Join Date: 20th November 2007 Location: sunny manchester Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	my wife has the nissan almera 2.2 dci 136bhp 6 speed & i have the civic ES 1.8. i drive both cars hard because of the job i do. the nissan is great for the 1st few seconds because of the torque. it cruises on the motorway in 6 gear just above 3000 revs at 100mph. as for the civic 1.8 petrol you get a better driven experience as you can use the high revs for slowin in to corners & exiting out on max power. you try & do that in a diesel. the 1.8 & 2.2 have the same 0-62 & top end. its down to preference

27th April 2008, 18:33	#16 (permalink)
Munro Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 10th August 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,032 Thanks: 21 Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts	That looks like a somewhat biased graph on the Wiki. The Standard diesel is rated at 138hp max like the petrol. The wiki graph shows 153 (@ 10% more !). Are all standard diesels producing this much extra power ? Petrol vs Diesel - Civinfo Wiki The other downside with diesels is that once they get up to higher mileages you are more likely to have some major engine repair bills. For example when things like Turbos, injectors and high pressure fuel pumps expire (which is not unusual on modern diesels). I do think the Honda Diesel is a particularly good engine - fantastically torquey and smooth. The Diesel is closer to type R price both new and second hand. Good advice from DerChef - try the cars and see which you like best. Some prefer Diesels, some prefer petrol. Last edited by Munro; 27th April 2008 at 18:36.

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This thread is about: diesel vs petrol Type S, it's in Buying, Dealers and Servicing at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Now obviously Honda made the Type S available in 1.8 petrol and 2.2 diesel engines for a reason... yes? What are the pro's and cons ...

26th April 2008, 21:58	#3 (permalink)
avboothroyd Valve Cap Join Date: 23rd January 2008 Location: Winchester, UK Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was given a 1.8 as a replacement car while they fixed the irritating dashboard rattle in my 2.2 type S. The 1.8 obviously revs much higher, and it is very quick to respond, especially off the mark in 1st. However, the 2.2 has the turbo, so when the revs are at about 1800ish, along with the much higher torque, you can really feel the additional power. I was a bit dissapointed with the 1.8 in that i felt there should be more power with the revs and i was waiting for the kick of the turbo which never came. For me, the 2.2 is definitely the better choice. ps. they fixed teh rattle in the centre console, but would you believe, I have now got another rattle from the magnificent sun roof!!

26th April 2008, 22:03	#4 (permalink)
warmit123 Valve Cap Join Date: 25th April 2008 Location: Gwent, South Wales Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Deisel is quicker according to reports!

27th April 2008, 00:03	#7 (permalink)
Unknownsoldier Comedian/Smart Ase Civinfo guru* Join Date: 22nd September 2007 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 2,275 Thanks: 40 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts	TBH, the diesel and petrol are about the same 0-60, when comparing run in and technique for changing gear, but if you drive it properly the petrol is more responsive IMHO. Tom

27th April 2008, 10:22	#10 (permalink)
Unknownsoldier Comedian/Smart Ase Civinfo guru* Join Date: 22nd September 2007 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 2,275 Thanks: 40 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts	Ahhh, depends how you use the clutch and how it's run in, but I'm sure the petrol can be driven to be as good if not better. The one single problem with the diesel is the turbo, and the lag, once thats spooled up, then it is quicker, however it has to spool up first, if your quick on the gears and can drop the clutch just right, then it'll be too close to call, especially if you don't use the clutch. Tom

27th April 2008, 11:08	#11 (permalink)
Courant Wheelnut Join Date: 27th January 2008 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 96 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Tom's absolutely right. I have a CTDI but test drove the petrol a fair bit, and my previous car was an old gen civic. The diesel has a lot of grunt and it is economical (the main reason for getting it, I do 25,000m+ a year) and I really enjoy it. But, with careful gear changing i think the petrol is a better drivers car because the power delivery is super smooth - with the diesel, the torque kick and turbo lag combined can make coming out of corners a little rough! I think I'd certainly be looking to make my next car a petrol, this being by first foray into turbo-diesel land and finding it an interesting experience. Also, the economics are different. Yes, you get more mpg but diesel is more expensive and the diesel costs more to buy from the outset. The tax difference (is there one actually?) is negligible because it's far outswamped by fuel and depreciation costs. From my calculations, buying secondhand (1-2yrs old) the diesel only made sense if I was doing 20,000m+ a year. Otherwise the petrol is actually the cheaper option. If you buy new, you actually need to be doing more miles to justify it financially. BTW driving a VTEC in the higher rev ranges isn't "thrashing", it's designed to be driven like that! The sight of 7000rpm shouldn't scare you Courant

27th April 2008, 11:32	#12 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo guru Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 4,775 Thanks: 7 Thanked 64 Times in 33 Posts	This is such a regular topic, that I have done a summary in a wiki page: Petrol vs Diesel - Civinfo Wiki

27th April 2008, 11:35	#13 (permalink)
Unknownsoldier Comedian/Smart Ase Civinfo guru* Join Date: 22nd September 2007 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 2,275 Thanks: 40 Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts	Hehehehehe, it'll rage til' the end of time. Still say petrol is better though Tom

27th April 2008, 11:40	#14 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Civinfo guru Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 4,775 Thanks: 7 Thanked 64 Times in 33 Posts	I was careful with my wording "which engine suits which owner the best". Diesel is still better though.

27th April 2008, 16:19	#15 (permalink)
DerChef Valve Cap Join Date: 15th April 2008 Location: Tyrone, Ulster Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I never get involved with these petrol vs diesel debates (well looks like I just have ) . I am a very strong athiest and never preach or eulogise to anybody to do anything in life. Find out what works for you with two LONG test drives. Ultimately its how the car is to drive that matters and its refinement and the way it delivers its power. Costs are exremely transient they can be effected by taxation, environmental legislation and even the time of the year.

27th April 2008, 18:38	#17 (permalink)
Moose Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 22nd February 2008 Location: Doncaster Posts: 109 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It all depends on which way you swing!

27th April 2008, 20:55	#18 (permalink)
Chris_J Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 25th April 2008 Location: West Mids Posts: 100 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I've now got myself into the same pickle. I wanted a diesel, and it is a fantastic drive in terms of the torque shove you get. However, I would have to maybe go 06/56 for what I want without leather or the roof etc on an EX, yet I can get a petrol EX with leather and panoramic roof on an 07 for the right money. The insurance is £30ish cheaper on the petrol but the tax is £40 more so no big deal there. However, how do I work out the real cost of ownership? I'm doing 12k PA maybe 13. Now the gap between petrol and diesel is 10p per litre, which over 45 litres equates to £2 or there abouts. Arrrggghhh annoying somewhat.