[Finance] Feel Ripped off

kojakxx · 30th April 2008, 13:29

Oh Dear, what have I done?
Bought a new car last friday (Honda Civic Type R GT black) and went the finance route. Honda finance were showing rates of 7.9% for new cars. Mine wasnt "new" as it had done 7 miles. But, I thought the interest would be 7.9% but I was wrong. It was 13.8%APR!! With Black Horse finance. Just got the agreement through this morning and was shocked. For credit of £12,670 (6k deposit) over three years i will have to pay back a grand total of £23,373.32 (car cost = £18,760 charge for credit £4703.32).
Ok, I was wrong for not checking the interest rate but I thought it would be the one advertised. Options? Any advice would be helpful but I think creek and paddle in "dirty water" springs to mind. Can I cancel and pay it off by a bank loan which IS 7.9% and swallow the charges? I don't think I've pleaded for help on a forum before...but please help.

I have spoken to the Dealer who said he would phone me back..guess what? He never. Am I allowed to say which Dealer?

Bungle · 30th April 2008, 13:41

To be honest, I doubt you have much of a case for arguing against this.
All interest rates and the total amount payable must clearly be stated on the finance form you signed. If it wasn't, you have a reason to dispute, otherwise, well.....

Best of luck coming to an agreement with your dealer, though.

allan40alt · 30th April 2008, 13:49

Don't you get a fourteen day 'cooling off' period during which time you can cancel?

kojakxx · 30th April 2008, 13:54

Thanks Bungle for quick reply. I signed a sort of PDA.
Firstly, I know im an idiot, ok, that's that out of the way. Just spoke to Black Horse finance and the lady said that I may be entitled to a 14 day "cooling off" period?? So, what if I was to get a bank loan to cover the full amount owed (£12,670) go to Honda, slap it down, and ask em to cancel the finance agreement??
edit:-Just saw allan40alt's post, thanks mate, yep I guess that's the only route available at the moment.

allan40alt · 30th April 2008, 13:58

Why don't you ring Honda first and tell them that's what you intend to do, they may 'instantly' have a better deal for you!

Unknownsoldier · 30th April 2008, 14:03

I would suggest that too, barter with them and if necessary just ask them to cancel it, they possibly won't want to lose your money, especially with the credit crunch.

Tom

kojakxx · 30th April 2008, 14:08

I have rang Honda here goes..
12.50 - phoned the chap who sold me the car, he said to phone his boss "I'll just get him...oh, he's with a customer he will phone you back" That's ok I understand it's their living and I don't wanna stand in the way of a sale.
13.25 - phoned Honda, chap answers and I ask for "mr smith" (hidden identity). He replied "He's busy at the moment can he phone you back"
13.45 - Phoned again, this time I was more assertive and said if he doesnt phone back in 5 mins I'm coming down..Oh hello "Mr Smith"...
Being perfectly honest he was useless, he never mentioned anything about a cooling off period just more or less saying what a good deal I got. Yeah, love the car, no probs, he ended the conversation by saying I will phone you back with a possible solution. Time now is 3.06 and ive gotta get ready for work. So I don't expect any help from him. He even tried to say my car was worth 22k new!! Hang on mate, its the GT in black with is worth £19,350 or so?! Oh yeah he said, i was quoting sat nav and 19" wheels. Muppet. Anyway I will worry about this all night now, the only thing keeping me smiling is the car.

mrh339 · 30th April 2008, 14:09

Cancel and refinance but wait until day 12 and then send it first class recorded delivery(to the finance company i expect not the dealer but check the paperwork) in order to give you as much time as possible to refinance, also check if its 14 days or 14 working days.

pcr · 30th April 2008, 14:28

Kojak, With 7 miles on the clock, I don't understand how your car is not new and available at 7.9%.

NH Dan · 30th April 2008, 14:31

14 day cooling off period so, take two copies of your letter cancelling due to the rate etc, give one to the dealer along with the keys and anything else you got with the car and send the other copy by recorded delivery to blackhorse finance.

But, ultimately, YOU are responsible for what you sign.

Any problems, ask to speak to the person who is responsible for their FSA compliance. Let them explain.

If you get no-where, let me know and i'll give you the address for the FSA (Financial Services Authority).

mileage regardless, were/are you the first owner of the car?? if so, its a new car and you should qualify for the 7.9% new car rate, if not, you dont.

kojakxx · 30th April 2008, 14:42

Problem with the cooling off period. I signed the agreement on the premises which by searching google means I'm not entitled to it as I signed of my own free will.
Yeah, I understand I am responsible and now I've got to wriggle out of it somehow, if it was a few hundred quid difference then ok, but the difference between Black Horse Finance 13.8% and Honda Finance 7.9% and Barclays 7.9% adds up to charge for credit..
Black horse = £4,703.32
Barclays = £1616.40
That's a fair bit. By the way, so far, thank-you to everyone who has helped, I feel a bit better

Guitaralmond · 30th April 2008, 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by allan40alt

Don't you get a fourteen day 'cooling off' period during which time you can cancel?

yes, this is part of our legislation. You can give them the car back or decline the finance at any point in this period

allan40alt · 30th April 2008, 17:20

I've found this: BBC - Consumer - Your rights - Credit FAQs

It would appear that if you sign in their premises then the legal cooling-off period is not applicable (providing I understood it correctly) and it is only for 7 days anyway.

Isn't there a mention of cancelling in the 'small print' in the contract?

Jack The Lad. · 30th April 2008, 17:45

How the hell can it not be a new car, with only 7 miles on the clock and assuming you are the first registered owner.
I keep a note of all the new cars that I have had ( tend to be a hoarder).
Last two Honda's :- 17 and 23 miles, when I picked them up.
Another make costing rather a lot more than the above :- 33 miles.
I could go on.
Cheeky S-d's.

SluffGuy · 30th April 2008, 17:58

This is fairly classic as an approach and it stinks. The dealer quoted the 'flat rate' to you which always looks better than the APR.

If the paperwork listed the APR then you're batting a sticky wicket. If the paperwork doesn't show the APR then you have a cause to complain (and should).

parkers142 · 30th April 2008, 18:44

Was the car a pre-reg you being second owner after Honda? If not then the car must be new.

Chris_J · 30th April 2008, 22:16

The garage must legally own it for 3 months before selling it I believe. Unless that's just demo's.

Ignore me it's just demonstrators for some reason.

Topcat · 30th April 2008, 22:34

Your car had done less miles that any "new" car I have ever bought !!

I would write them a recorded delivery letter straight away telling them that although you signed the agreement you thought that you would be paying for the car with the lower rate of finance as it wasnt explained to you properly (asuming of course the business manager there didnt explain it to you in detail, which I am quite certain he should have done - thats his job).

DO NOT have conversations with them on the telephone about this, you have no proof of what has been said.

Speak to Consumer Direct for advice asap;

Consumer Direct

Good Luck

kojakxx · 30th April 2008, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by parkers142

Was the car a pre-reg you being second owner after Honda? If not then the car must be new.

yeah it was a pre-reg (Im new to buying cars first ever one)
Got the phone call from the Dealer (17:45) who informed me he had spoken to Black Horse and would phone me tomorrow to give me more details.
There was no 'paper' involved, only the receipts for my deposit. I signed a PDA machine. The APR was never, repeat, never given to me, and in turn I never asked (as I wrongly assumed). If the dealer had said that the APR was 13.8% then I would have taken out the barclays pre approved loan and gone back and bought it outright.
I want to keep the car, I agreed the price and I agreed the repayments, but its the final payment which sucks £10,826.00. If that was more like £8,800 then ok.
To clarify a bit..
Cost of car : £18,670 (Honda Civic Type R GT, Black paint, no extras, no Gap and no Diamondbrite.)
Deposit : £6,000
Credit : £12,670
35x payments : £181.87
GFV (or final payment) : £10,826.00
Total amount payable : £23,373.32
Total charge for credit : £4,703.32

Will post what the Dealer has done later tomorrow, he did say he didn't want to fall out with me, ahhh sweet. Oh before I forget, the Gap insurance and the Diamondbrite deals were explained in great detail (wonder why?). Thank-you to everyone for their fantastic help I really do appreciate it

SluffGuy · 30th April 2008, 22:44

Sorry to query but this sounds a little odd to me.

You must have, somewhere, a copy of the signed loan agreement. By law they are required to give you this and the loan agreement must also state pertinent information like the APR.

If all you have is the receipt for your deposit then I'd argue you haven't entered into any sort of loan agreement at all, bizarre as that sounds.

I'd be interested to know how you get on, but don't let them stall for time...

30th April 2008, 13:29	#1 (permalink)
kojakxx Valve Cap Join Date: 27th April 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 16	[Finance] Feel Ripped off Oh Dear, what have I done? Bought a new car last friday (Honda Civic Type R GT black) and went the finance route. Honda finance were showing rates of 7.9% for new cars. Mine wasnt "new" as it had done 7 miles. But, I thought the interest would be 7.9% but I was wrong. It was 13.8%APR!! With Black Horse finance. Just got the agreement through this morning and was shocked. For credit of £12,670 (6k deposit) over three years i will have to pay back a grand total of £23,373.32 (car cost = £18,760 charge for credit £4703.32). Ok, I was wrong for not checking the interest rate but I thought it would be the one advertised. Options? Any advice would be helpful but I think creek and paddle in "dirty water" springs to mind. Can I cancel and pay it off by a bank loan which IS 7.9% and swallow the charges? I don't think I've pleaded for help on a forum before...but please help. I have spoken to the Dealer who said he would phone me back..guess what? He never. Am I allowed to say which Dealer? Last edited by kojakxx : 30th April 2008 at 13:32.

30th April 2008, 22:16	#17 (permalink)
Chris_J Wheelnut Join Date: 25th April 2008 Location: West Mids Posts: 61	The garage must legally own it for 3 months before selling it I believe. Unless that's just demo's. Ignore me it's just demonstrators for some reason. Last edited by Chris_J : 30th April 2008 at 22:24.

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This thread is about: [Finance] Feel Ripped off, it's in Buying, Dealers and Servicing at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Oh Dear, what have I done? Bought a new car last friday (Honda Civic Type R GT black) and went the finance route. Honda finance ...

30th April 2008, 13:41	#2 (permalink)
Bungle Rocketship door handle Join Date: 3rd July 2006 Location: SE London/Kent Posts: 1,170	To be honest, I doubt you have much of a case for arguing against this. All interest rates and the total amount payable must clearly be stated on the finance form you signed. If it wasn't, you have a reason to dispute, otherwise, well..... Best of luck coming to an agreement with your dealer, though.

30th April 2008, 13:49	#3 (permalink)
allan40alt Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 6th August 2006 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire. Posts: 1,874	Don't you get a fourteen day 'cooling off' period during which time you can cancel?

30th April 2008, 13:54	#4 (permalink)
kojakxx Valve Cap Join Date: 27th April 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 16	Thanks Bungle for quick reply. I signed a sort of PDA. Firstly, I know im an idiot, ok, that's that out of the way. Just spoke to Black Horse finance and the lady said that I may be entitled to a 14 day "cooling off" period?? So, what if I was to get a bank loan to cover the full amount owed (£12,670) go to Honda, slap it down, and ask em to cancel the finance agreement?? edit:-Just saw allan40alt's post, thanks mate, yep I guess that's the only route available at the moment.

30th April 2008, 13:58	#5 (permalink)
allan40alt Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 6th August 2006 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire. Posts: 1,874	Why don't you ring Honda first and tell them that's what you intend to do, they may 'instantly' have a better deal for you!

30th April 2008, 14:03	#6 (permalink)
Unknownsoldier T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't! Rocketship door handle Join Date: 22nd September 2007 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 1,486	I would suggest that too, barter with them and if necessary just ask them to cancel it, they possibly won't want to lose your money, especially with the credit crunch. Tom

30th April 2008, 14:08	#7 (permalink)
kojakxx Valve Cap Join Date: 27th April 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 16	I have rang Honda here goes.. 12.50 - phoned the chap who sold me the car, he said to phone his boss "I'll just get him...oh, he's with a customer he will phone you back" That's ok I understand it's their living and I don't wanna stand in the way of a sale. 13.25 - phoned Honda, chap answers and I ask for "mr smith" (hidden identity). He replied "He's busy at the moment can he phone you back" 13.45 - Phoned again, this time I was more assertive and said if he doesnt phone back in 5 mins I'm coming down..Oh hello "Mr Smith"... Being perfectly honest he was useless, he never mentioned anything about a cooling off period just more or less saying what a good deal I got. Yeah, love the car, no probs, he ended the conversation by saying I will phone you back with a possible solution. Time now is 3.06 and ive gotta get ready for work. So I don't expect any help from him. He even tried to say my car was worth 22k new!! Hang on mate, its the GT in black with is worth £19,350 or so?! Oh yeah he said, i was quoting sat nav and 19" wheels. Muppet. Anyway I will worry about this all night now, the only thing keeping me smiling is the car.

30th April 2008, 14:09	#8 (permalink)
mrh339 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 27th September 2007 Location: Gloucestershire Posts: 290	Cancel and refinance but wait until day 12 and then send it first class recorded delivery(to the finance company i expect not the dealer but check the paperwork) in order to give you as much time as possible to refinance, also check if its 14 days or 14 working days.

30th April 2008, 14:28	#9 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 767	Kojak, With 7 miles on the clock, I don't understand how your car is not new and available at 7.9%.

30th April 2008, 14:31	#10 (permalink)
NH Dan Newton Honda Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 31st January 2008 Location: South London,Uk Posts: 443	14 day cooling off period so, take two copies of your letter cancelling due to the rate etc, give one to the dealer along with the keys and anything else you got with the car and send the other copy by recorded delivery to blackhorse finance. But, ultimately, YOU are responsible for what you sign. Any problems, ask to speak to the person who is responsible for their FSA compliance. Let them explain. If you get no-where, let me know and i'll give you the address for the FSA (Financial Services Authority). mileage regardless, were/are you the first owner of the car?? if so, its a new car and you should qualify for the 7.9% new car rate, if not, you dont.

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30th April 2008, 14:42	#11 (permalink)
kojakxx Valve Cap Join Date: 27th April 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 16	Problem with the cooling off period. I signed the agreement on the premises which by searching google means I'm not entitled to it as I signed of my own free will. Yeah, I understand I am responsible and now I've got to wriggle out of it somehow, if it was a few hundred quid difference then ok, but the difference between Black Horse Finance 13.8% and Honda Finance 7.9% and Barclays 7.9% adds up to charge for credit.. Black horse = £4,703.32 Barclays = £1616.40 That's a fair bit. By the way, so far, thank-you to everyone who has helped, I feel a bit better

30th April 2008, 17:20	#13 (permalink)
allan40alt Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 6th August 2006 Location: Rugby, Warwickshire. Posts: 1,874	I've found this: BBC - Consumer - Your rights - Credit FAQs It would appear that if you sign in their premises then the legal cooling-off period is not applicable (providing I understood it correctly) and it is only for 7 days anyway. Isn't there a mention of cancelling in the 'small print' in the contract?

30th April 2008, 17:45	#14 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 1,288	How the hell can it not be a new car, with only 7 miles on the clock and assuming you are the first registered owner. I keep a note of all the new cars that I have had ( tend to be a hoarder). Last two Honda's :- 17 and 23 miles, when I picked them up. Another make costing rather a lot more than the above :- 33 miles. I could go on. Cheeky S-d's.

30th April 2008, 17:58	#15 (permalink)
SluffGuy Valve Cap Join Date: 31st March 2008 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 13	This is fairly classic as an approach and it stinks. The dealer quoted the 'flat rate' to you which always looks better than the APR. If the paperwork listed the APR then you're batting a sticky wicket. If the paperwork doesn't show the APR then you have a cause to complain (and should).

30th April 2008, 18:44	#16 (permalink)
parkers142 Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 27th August 2007 Location: Manchester Posts: 69	Was the car a pre-reg you being second owner after Honda? If not then the car must be new.

30th April 2008, 22:34	#18 (permalink)
Topcat Supporter Civinfo guru Join Date: 11th May 2006 Location: Middlesex Posts: 2,656	Your car had done less miles that any "new" car I have ever bought !! I would write them a recorded delivery letter straight away telling them that although you signed the agreement you thought that you would be paying for the car with the lower rate of finance as it wasnt explained to you properly (asuming of course the business manager there didnt explain it to you in detail, which I am quite certain he should have done - thats his job). DO NOT have conversations with them on the telephone about this, you have no proof of what has been said. Speak to Consumer Direct for advice asap; Consumer Direct Good Luck

30th April 2008, 22:44	#20 (permalink)
SluffGuy Valve Cap Join Date: 31st March 2008 Location: Berkshire, UK Posts: 13	Sorry to query but this sounds a little odd to me. You must have, somewhere, a copy of the signed loan agreement. By law they are required to give you this and the loan agreement must also state pertinent information like the APR. If all you have is the receipt for your deposit then I'd argue you haven't entered into any sort of loan agreement at all, bizarre as that sounds. I'd be interested to know how you get on, but don't let them stall for time...