Engine Making the case for petrol - help

[Nexxo]

Originally Posted by IanG

I've had 37 mpg out of my Type R on a long journey

I dont do the miles to justify running a diesel espcially given how much it costs these days

I sometimes wonder if I did the right thing in moving back to Petrol after 8 years of diesel driving but the cost of it these days justifies why I did it

And the noise from the VTEC helps as well

I'm not sure that you can complain about the cost of a Diesel when you drive a Type R! Almost half the mileage, substantially higher road tax (£210,-- instead of £120,--, due to increase to £300,-- instead of £110,-- next year), and sky-high insurance rates (category 17E instead of category 10); it all adds up.

Don't get me wrong: I'd love to have a Type R, and I could have afforded one as easily as my current Type S CTDi. But the extra costs are prohibitive IMO.

There are other reasons for choosing a diesel besides the economy. They are more reliable (I know, small point in a Honda, but nevertheless), last much longer, are less prone to overheating in traffic jams and run cleaner. It ain't easy being green, ya know?

In return you get serious torque at hills and lights, and a good range on a single tank.

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by Nexxo

There are other reasons for choosing a diesel besides the economy. They are more reliable (I know, small point in a Honda, but nevertheless), last much longer, are less prone to overheating in traffic jams and run cleaner. It ain't easy being green, ya know?

more reliable .... no failure of a type R engine ever.
last much longer ... how much longer ? when the cars will be worth pennies it won't make a difference.
overheating .... lol if my new 20 k car overheated in a traffic jam wether it be petrol or diesel i would return it to the dealer ASAP.
green ...... diesel is more carcinogenic than petrol.

[Pottsy]

Originally Posted by nig.j

Oh - a second point does the honda have a duel mass fly wheel??

Yes, it does. But no problems reported here over the last couple of years.


The diesel is typically 18% more economical than the petrol (see here). So long as diesel is less than 18% more than petrol, then the direct running cost is less in the diesel.

[IanG]

Originally Posted by Nexxo

sky-high insurance rates (category 17E instead of category 10)

There wasn't that much difference a bonus of getting old

[nico651]

I also bought a petrol engine instead of a diesel. And I'm glad I did.
In Belgium nowadays, when you tell people you are buying a petrol car it's like you are committing a sin. What? You're crazy? Why didn't you bought a diesel. It's a lot cheaper.
75% of belgian motorists buy a diesel car these days (and did so for the last ten years), presuming it to be a lot more economical than a petrol driven engine. I can tell you, that a lot of diesel owners now are changing their mind when they see the diesel price rising and rising each day where the petrol price is rather stable. I think, before the end of this year diesel will cost more than petrol (and to be frankly, I do hope so...).
The reasons I preferred petrol are:
1) The Civic diesel is 2000 euro more expensive when buying.
2) The fuel consumption is almost the same between the two models.
3) Because you have a "bigger" engine (2.2l vs 1.8l) the roadtax on the diesel is higher.
4) The Belgian government equalised the roadtax for diesel and petrol since January 2008 so that they can raise the dieselprice itself. And so they did...
5) I do a lot of small distances (between 3 and 10 kms) and because the diesel Civic is equipped with a particlefilter on the exhaust, this filter can never warm up as it should and will become saturated. Then you'll have to drive at least 20 kms with a constant speed so it can regenerate itself. If you fail to do so, you'll have to call your dealer and await some expensive bills to have it fixed.
6) I hate the engine sound of most diesels. Especially the German cars as there are the VW and Opels. They sound like cheap tractors and are very noisy in the morning...
I prefer the rather sporty sound of a petrol engine doing some revs.
7) The only thing I can think of is better on the diesel is the giant couple and torque at low revs. But I find the petrol also extremely souple to drive. You can drive at 60 km/h in fifth gear for instance. Most of the petrol cars don't like that but the Civic can be driven as your grandpa's car and it can be very quick and nervous when you need the power.
That's all thanks to the great VTEC system which gives you two engines in one. That's why I like the petrol version most...

[gmxtrading]

Hello everyone, my first post on here, hopefully first of many as a prospective owner

I currently have a leon cupra diesel company car, and was due to change anyway, but lost the plot at weekend when it cost me over £72 to fill up!

I went to a dealers today to have a look at a new type s just out of curiosity, and as the cost to lease a type S GT diesel or Type R GT through my company scheme was the same, I started to look into the differences of running costs

Firstly, the company car tax on the type R is £400 more than the diesel.

At 10000 motorway miles
Type R @ 37mpg (a figure I have seen quoted in this thread) - this is 270 gallons of petrol at £1.13 a litre this is £1388 a year.

Type S Diesel @ an assumed 50mpg = 200 gallons/910 litres @ 1.28/litre = £1164 per year

So the difference in fuel is £200, or £4 a week for me to get to work. Of course around town will be a different matter, but I hardly ever do that type of driving, thats what my wife's corsa diesel is for.

So yes, the type r is more expensive in my circumstances by about £600 over the year, but I found that it is nowhere near as expensive as I thought it would be compared to the nearest equivalent diesel.

Now if I had ordered the 1.8 petrol type S, I am certain it would have worked out almost identical over the year. For a private buyer, I think it would be cheaper to buy the equivalent petrol model.

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by gmxtrading

At 10000 motorway miles
Type R @ 37mpg (a figure I have seen quoted in this thread) -

you wont get a consistent average of 37 mpg over 10 k miles in the R unless you NEVER vtec it

[IanG]

It would be more like 26-28 on average in a CTR but as I travel less than 20 miles a day it doesn't bother me

[R-2]

Originally Posted by gmxtrading

Hello everyone, my first post on here, hopefully first of many as a prospective owner

I currently have a leon cupra diesel company car, and was due to change anyway, but lost the plot at weekend when it cost me over £72 to fill up!

I went to a dealers today to have a look at a new type s just out of curiosity, and as the cost to lease a type S GT diesel or Type R GT through my company scheme was the same, I started to look into the differences of running costs

Firstly, the company car tax on the type R is £400 more than the diesel.

At 10000 motorway miles
Type R @ 37mpg (a figure I have seen quoted in this thread) - this is 270 gallons of petrol at £1.13 a litre this is £1388 a year.

Type S Diesel @ an assumed 50mpg = 200 gallons/910 litres @ 1.28/litre = £1164 per year

So the difference in fuel is £200, or £4 a week for me to get to work. Of course around town will be a different matter, but I hardly ever do that type of driving, thats what my wife's corsa diesel is for.

So yes, the type r is more expensive in my circumstances by about £600 over the year, but I found that it is nowhere near as expensive as I thought it would be compared to the nearest equivalent diesel.

Now if I had ordered the 1.8 petrol type S, I am certain it would have worked out almost identical over the year. For a private buyer, I think it would be cheaper to buy the equivalent petrol model.

To get that mpg in an 'R' even on the motorway you would have to use the cruise control and never use any acceleration

[gm1980]

Originally Posted by nig.j

1st post - usual sort of question!!

Looked at buying a Civic a few months ago but backed out of the deal as the car just wasnt right (tatty example) it was Diesel. Have been keeping a close eye on whats available and thought I wanted a Diesel to replace my TDCi Focus, however have seen I can get more for my money by going petrol. My logic follows:

At the moment diesel is 14p / ltr more expensive than petrol = 63p more per gallon which really knocks the economy case on the head providing the petrol does do 40+ to the gallon.

To fill up with diesel (10 Gals) is approx £56

To fill up with petrol is approx £50

I can get an extra gallon of petrol and do the same number of miles as a diesel for the same cost.

I do a long journey of 115 motorway miles twice a week, would it be possible to get 40+ MPG on this run from the 1.8 petrol??

Thank you in advance - nig.j

Oh - a second point does the honda have a duel mass fly wheel??

If you drive with no stops at constant speed of about 70 mph you might propably get about 49 mpg. I have managed to achieve thatn on my car actually 48,7 mpg which is transformed to 5.8 l/100km on a trip to work about 50 km. The road was half a highway and half a country road with uphills and downhills. But sincer the roads were very clear the whole trip was done with cruise control involved. The same trip was done yesterday on my way back to home but since i was really in a hurry the speed was double in the country roads and about 80 mph on highway, with hard accelerations and I have achieved only 8l/100 km. On average i get 7 l/ 100 km but i don't do much of highways.

[GHGH]

Just about confirmed - I got 47 mpg (6 l/100 km) as a minimum (real consumption - not the computer claim), usually 44 mpg (6,4 l/100 km) on uninspired extra urban driving. However the engine is far less frugal if revved hard - and that's what it really is made for.

Imo the reason for buying a 2.2 diesel is the extra (and different) performance you get. With the diesel cost compared to petrol, and the higher buying and maintenance cost of the diesel, the long run cost differences cannot differ much.

[Essexboy]

Originally Posted by gmxtrading

At 10000 motorway miles
Type R @ 37mpg (a figure I have seen quoted in this thread) - this is 270 gallons of petrol at £1.13 a litre this is £1388 a year.

You'd be a fool to get a diesel if you're only doing 10k miles per year, stick with a petrol, it'll cost you less...

[NoNumpty]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

The diesel is typically 18% more economical than the petrol (see here). So long as diesel is less than 18% more than petrol, then the direct running cost is less in the diesel.

This says it all for me - it's cheaper to run a diesel

OK the cost of the diesel is more expensive to buy and it is more expensive to service but the diesel is cheaper to insure and cheaper for road tax then the petrol.

driving like grandpop I could get 400 miles out of a tank with the 1.8 petrol but I'm thinking I should be able to get 600 miles out of a tank on the 2.2 diesel - no brainer really.

[gmxtrading]

Originally Posted by R-2

To get that mpg in an 'R' even on the motorway you would have to use the cruise control and never use any acceleration

I'm only quoting figures given by type r owners on this thread. I owned a new Impreza STI a couple of years back before getting the company car so I am well used to the fuel usage of this type of car even when you are taking it easy.

However the same is true for the diesel, my experience of the leon which quotes 55mpg extra urban is that 50mpg is also unrealistic other than at a constant speed on a very long run - and 45 is more realistic.

So the petrol argument still holds good for 10000 motorway miles.

BTW - anyone know what the delivery time is for a milano red type r gt with sat nav? I think I will have my order in by the end of the day.

[Pottsy]

What fuel economy should I expect? - Civinfo Wiki

Petrol vs Diesel - Civinfo Wiki

Petrol or Diesel - an analysis of ownership costs

[emmaloula]

Originally Posted by Essexboy

You'd be a fool to get a diesel if you're only doing 10k miles per year, stick with a petrol, it'll cost you less...

I think it's worth getting a diesel if you are going to be doing over 12,000 a year (which I do) although right now am considering getting the train!!

[RabidManx]

My Type S 1.8 VTEC averaged out at 47.5MPG on a trip to Hatfield and back this weekend, this included motorway and town driving...was fairly impressed. On the motorway with the CC on at 73mph I was getting around 50ish on the flat.

[NoNumpty]

Originally Posted by RabidManx

My Type S 1.8 VTEC averaged out at 47.5MPG on a trip to Hatfield and back this weekend, this included motorway and town driving...was fairly impressed. On the motorway with the CC on at 73mph I was getting around 50ish on the flat.

sounds to me like you are trusting the trip computer too much - if you calculated your average you would find it considerably less

[RabidManx]

Originally Posted by NoNumpty

sounds to me like you are trusting the trip computer too much - if you calculated your average you would find it considerably less

I know they are a little out but it cannot be that far out as with 329 miles into the tank and well over 1/4 of the tank left its still a LOT better than I expected....mind you I am used to 230 miles out of a £55 tank on my old mini cooper s so anything is good to me!

[mrh339]

It seems to me that 1.8 petrol owners are getting better than expected MPG all round.