Other cars Civic -v- Focus

[Topcat]

I had a Focus 1.8 for seven years, and loved it. I think the look of the new Focus has gone backwards though and compared to the Civic it felt dated and cheap.

I don't want a 2.0 engine given the type of driving I do but having said that I don't want a 1.6 as I like some power when its needed.

Yes the Focus can be good value for money, but I was comparing the two on the finish/looks. Incidently I looked at two used C-Max yesterday, both had leather steering wheels and both had worn away to nothing, bits of leather missing and thread hanging down, one of the cars had done 30,000. The quality of the leather must be really poor to wear away like that so quickly and judging by the paintwork on their used cars I would say that these days all cars must be as bad as each other!!

That is why I decided not to bother looking and to stick with the Civic, at least it looks great (or at least mine will when the scratches are repaired)!!

[Brodick]

Dawson is partly right
you should be able to get a much better discount on a ford
(bearing in mind the poor residual value in 3 yrs time)

But Dawson you cannot compare a pre reg 56 plate focus the the list price of the civic

The list for a 1.8 Focus Titanium is £16745
Est value in 3 years time £5860*
The list for a 1.8 Civic EX is £17050
Est Value in 3 years time £7945*

These would be the worst valuations - any decent dealer
getting a good condition car will add on to these



O.K so the Honda Dealer's are not all that forthcoming with their discounts
but then it comes back to the residual values






A car is a car is a car is a car - yeah right

[Dawson]

Originally Posted by Topcat

Yes the Focus can be good value for money, but I was comparing the two on the finish/looks. Incidently I looked at two used C-Max yesterday, both had leather steering wheels and both had worn away to nothing, bits of leather missing and thread hanging down, one of the cars had done 30,000. The quality of the leather must be really poor to wear away like that so quickly and judging by the paintwork on their used cars I would say that these days all cars must be as bad as each other!!

I'm not impressed with the quality of leather on the steering wheel on the Focus either. It doesn't even seem to be real leather and looks quite delicate. I didn't have any problems with it wearing away though. I did read somewhere once though that if you apply aftershave with your hands and don't wash them afterwards, this can seriously wear away the leather on steering wheels.

Originally Posted by Brodick

But Dawson you cannot compare a pre reg 56 plate focus the the list price of the civic

The list for a 1.8 Focus Titanium is £16745
Est value in 3 years time £5860*
The list for a 1.8 Civic EX is £17050
Est Value in 3 years time £7945*

These would be the worst valuations - any decent dealer
getting a good condition car will add on to these

That's not a pre-reg. £14k was a brand new Focus Titanium 2.0 TDCI. Link. Assuming the diesel is worth £7000 in 3 years time, let's do some calculations:


The list for a Focus Titanium 2.0 TDCI is £18,020
Actual price paid is £14,000
Est value in 3 years time £7,000
Total money lost = £7,000 for 3 years motoring
Value in 3 years time (against list price) = 39%
Value in 3 years time (against actual price) = 50%

The list for a 1.8 Civic EX is £17,050
Actual price paid is £16,500 (we'll allow a little discount)
Est Value in 3 years time £7945
Total money lost = £8,555 for 3 years motoring
Value in 3 years time (against list price) = 47%
Value in 3 years time (against actual price) = 48%

Working it out in real money terms (realistic purchase prices) and it's not as bad as you think. The Civic loses more money over the 3 years, but retains more money in terms of value against list price. Given that the Focus is £3000 cheaper in the first place, the £1000 less value in 3 years time doesn't seem so significant.

Of course, pay the list price for the Titanium and you're simply flushing money down the toilet for the next 3 years.

[elfa7]

Very well stated.

[Dave Taylor]

Amazingly none of the Focus or C-Max range come with climate control or CD MP3 playback as standard, they are all optional extra's including the Ghia.

I think Ford are a bit slow with these features.

Re Dave

[Dawson]

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

Amazingly none of the Focus or C-Max range come with climate control or CD MP3 playback as standard, they are all optional extra's including the Ghia.

I think Ford are a bit slow with these features.

Re Dave

The Titanium and ST-2 certainly come with the Sony Single CD MP3 cd player. Also, they all have a lovely AUX in jack in the glovebox, something I'll really miss on Civic.

You're right about the climate control though, it's an option on every Focus, something I assume Ford don't think people are interested in. It's something I was interested in, just not for £400!

Oh dear, I'm starting to sound like a Ford sales monkey!

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by Dawson

The Titanium and ST-2 certainly come with the Sony Single CD MP3 cd player. Also, they all have a lovely AUX in jack in the glovebox, something I'll really miss on Civic.

You're right about the climate control though, it's an option on every Focus, something I assume Ford don't think people are interested in. It's something I was interested in, just not for £400!

Oh dear, I'm starting to sound like a Ford sales monkey!

Yep!!

[Dave Taylor]

The Mazda 3 now has Climate control, so did my old Megane and so does my wife's Jazz Sport.

This is one of the features I was looking for along with MP3 and easy fold flat rear seats (not like the Focus, Megane or 307) it will be interesting to see what the B-Max is like. Also the interior of the C-Max looks dreadful (sat in one today) especially the doors (how square).

Re Dave

[Dutch_Civic]

Since i previously owned a Ford Puma 1.7 Milennium and was very happy with it, i first looked at the new Focus. Although the ST looks great in electric orange and handles and drives very well, it would just be too expensive to insure and to fill up everytime. Once you forget about the ST, the regular Focus is just not very exciting to look at and there's one parked in about every other street.

Having looked at the Civic, i was instantly sold. The panoramic roof, the standard Xenon, the nice pedals, twin exhaust pipes, everything i was looking for in a new car.

An extra bonus is, that only 1950 civic's are sold in The Netherlands to date and that the Focus, the Astra and the 307 each sold over 10.000 cars. Which means my Civic still turns a lot of heads at the traffic lights. People were looking more at my car, than at the blue Focus ST is was parked next to last week.

[pjelsworth]

Originally Posted by Dawson

I'm not impressed with the quality of leather on the steering wheel on the Focus either. It doesn't even seem to be real leather and looks quite delicate. I didn't have any problems with it wearing away though. I did read somewhere once though that if you apply aftershave with your hands and don't wash them afterwards, this can seriously wear away the leather on steering wheels.



That's not a pre-reg. £14k was a brand new Focus Titanium 2.0 TDCI. Link. Assuming the diesel is worth £7000 in 3 years time, let's do some calculations:


The list for a Focus Titanium 2.0 TDCI is £18,020
Actual price paid is £14,000
Est value in 3 years time £7,000
Total money lost = £7,000 for 3 years motoring
Value in 3 years time (against list price) = 39%
Value in 3 years time (against actual price) = 50%

The list for a 1.8 Civic EX is £17,050
Actual price paid is £16,500 (we'll allow a little discount)
Est Value in 3 years time £7945
Total money lost = £8,555 for 3 years motoring
Value in 3 years time (against list price) = 47%
Value in 3 years time (against actual price) = 48%

Working it out in real money terms (realistic purchase prices) and it's not as bad as you think. The Civic loses more money over the 3 years, but retains more money in terms of value against list price. Given that the Focus is £3000 cheaper in the first place, the £1000 less value in 3 years time doesn't seem so significant.

Of course, pay the list price for the Titanium and you're simply flushing money down the toilet for the next 3 years.

Still not convinced it is so clear cut. I got £1000 of my EX and others have done better so it is possible. Would also need to add the 17" alloys (£200), HFT (£250), Sat Nav (£1050), Cruise (£200), Dual Climate (£400) on the Titanium to get to EX spec.

I seriously considered the Focus; it is a great car but I just don't think the price difference is a great as is being made out

[RonaldV]

Originally Posted by Dawson

I'm not impressed with the quality of leather on the steering wheel on the Focus either. It doesn't even seem to be real leather and looks quite delicate. I didn't have any problems with it wearing away though. I did read somewhere once though that if you apply aftershave with your hands and don't wash them afterwards, this can seriously wear away the leather on steering wheels.

In Holland the list price for a Focus Titanium 2.0 TDCI is about the same as the Civic 2.2 Sport, both about 31000 euros. Specs are comparable I think. If you get a discount here it is a few hundreds euros but certainly no thousands! With the previous Focus the leather was still good after 4 years and 200,000km even with aftershave. (Mostly shaving in traffic jams )
I'm sure the handling of the Focus is better as the Civic also. But unless you have an orange ST (so beautifull) the Focus is a terrible boring car.

[czechplastik]

I think Dawson works for Ford! To be honest i was keen on the ST, the insurance costs put an end to that though. If you start comparing the civic to a similarly specced A3 or 1 series, even golfs the difference in price is stark. In terms of the engines, yes there are only three but they are very different and the range is inclusive enough to have something for almost everyones needs. for example the 1.8 (claimed anyway) has the economy of a 1.6 but the power of a 2.0, thats already two engines in one!

[Dawson]

Originally Posted by pjelsworth

I seriously considered the Focus; it is a great car but I just don't think the price difference is a great as is being made out

If the Civic was the better car and represented better value, why are there so many more Focii on the road?

I prefer the Civic, but you do pay extra for it.

Originally Posted by czechplastik

I think Dawson works for Ford! To be honest i was keen on the ST, the insurance costs put an end to that though. If you start comparing the civic to a similarly specced A3 or 1 series, even golfs the difference in price is stark. In terms of the engines, yes there are only three but they are very different and the range is inclusive enough to have something for almost everyones needs. for example the 1.8 (claimed anyway) has the economy of a 1.6 but the power of a 2.0, thats already two engines in one!

The Focus is what I've bought twice new in the last 2 years. Being enthusiastic about my cars I seem to know far too much about the range. I'm not a fan boy by any means though!

Interesting point about the engine though. There's no need for Ford to offer 6 petrol engines. The 1.4, 1.6 and 2.5 would be enough. There does appear to be a gap in both ranges though, one that was previouslly filled by the old Type S and the ST170. There's nothing between the 'standard' cars and the 'hot' versions currently. Maybe there isn't a market for such a car these days?

[Brodick]

It's not every day that someone will get £3000 off a focus anyway

Arnie Clark has his sale on at the moment which could answer a few things
and it has been known in the past for them to pre reg cars discount them
and get their sales figures up at the same time

Not that I've got anything agains't Arnold Clark you understand

Who wants to be seen in Ford anyway ( Oooooooooooh )

[pjelsworth]

Originally Posted by Dawson

If the Civic was the better car and represented better value, why are there so many more Focii on the road?

Many reasons, but one is because they cannot produce Civics fast enough, hence the long waiting time.
Another is company cars; I would wager a much higher proportion of Focus than Civics are company cars due to the massive fleet discounts given by Ford.

Anyway, enough already! They are both good cars, we could debate forever on cost of ownership, but at the end of the day there is not that much in it to have a similar spec car over the same period, so it boils down to personal choice.

[czechplastik]

Originally Posted by Dawson

There does appear to be a gap in both ranges though, one that was previouslly filled by the old Type S and the ST170. There's nothing between the 'standard' cars and the 'hot' versions currently. Maybe there isn't a market for such a car these days?

Very good point, i think theres a reappearance of 'warm' hatches on the horizon, Renault have just made a Megane that sits between the top end non racy model and the 225sport. But is the ST not supposed to sit between the normal 2.0 and the RS when it appears?

[Squirrel]

Originally Posted by Dawson

If the Civic was the better car and represented better value, why are there so many more Focii on the road?

I read somewhere that most people when looking for a new car, choose a make that a friend or family member has or a make they see in their town a lot, rather than look at so-called "foreign" makes (and before anyone says, yes Ford is American!)

The Ford Focus, along with the Peugeot 206 are the most popular cars in the UK. They're everywhere! Doesnt make them the best cars, but people trust a car their friend has, or they see on the TV a lot. Where I live there are the 5 "main" dealers... Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Renault, Citroen and an out of town Skoprobably prefer to buy from a Rugby dealer (pure laziness or fear, who knows!) but with the 206 previously being built just down the road at Ryton, a lot of Peugeot workers live in the area, so the number of 206's here is phenomenal, purely based on the fact that people work for PSA Peugeot Citroen and so many people get discounts on new Peugeots.

That doesnt make Peugeots great because they are popular, its because so many people get discounts on them round here! Even I was offered a discount because my Grandad used to work for Peugeot Talbots many years ago and still gets a pension from them! I would not buy a Peugeot if my life depended on it!

I think some people are scared of manufacturers who arent Ford, Vauxhall etc etc. I honestly believe that if most Focus owners compared it to the Civic, there would be less Focus' on the road and more of a wait for the Civic!

[pjelsworth]

Originally Posted by Dawson

......so many more Focii on the road?

Reminds me of Alan Partridge talking about Lexii

[Squirrel]

Originally Posted by pjelsworth

Reminds me of Alan Partridge talking about Lexii

Tell me about it, you have no idea how much people going on about "Yarii" annoys me....

Its a Yaris, its plural is Yaris' or Yarises, not Yarii! LOL!

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by Dawson

If the Civic was the better car and represented better value, why are there so many more Focii on the road?