Options Safegard Paint Protection ?

[emceejay2]

Milanoreds, perhaps they did apply the sticker but as the product was so good it just slid off!!!!

[xYKMFx chris]

I too have had to contact my dealers this week as i was going through the honda folder we were given and discovered that our paperwork for the supaguard was in there and had not been filled in.....the woman i spoke to said oh just bring it in and i will fill it in for you..... so i questioned whether it had been done at all and was told it would have been because otherwise i would not have had the paperwork for it!!!

Also i had supaguard on both of my clios and with both i got a top up pack free - not the case with honda!!! Has anyone else had this with honda?? Has anyone actually recieved a pack???

I had diamond brite on my freelander and i must say it never looked dirty and the pack i got was enormous and came in a pcnic style bag with so many fullsize bottles of products in i actually get lost trying to find them!!!!! lol (i will try n take a photo of it with the stuff in cos u just wouldnt believe it!!) think im gonna try it on my civic!!!

Jayne x

[NoNumpty]

Originally Posted by xYKMFx chris

I too have had to contact my dealers this week as i was going through the honda folder we were given and discovered that our paperwork for the supaguard was in there and had not been filled in.....the woman i spoke to said oh just bring it in and i will fill it in for you..... so i questioned whether it had been done at all and was told it would have been because otherwise i would not have had the paperwork for it!!!

Also i had supaguard on both of my clios and with both i got a top up pack free - not the case with honda!!! Has anyone else had this with honda?? Has anyone actually recieved a pack???

I had diamond brite on my freelander and i must say it never looked dirty and the pack i got was enormous and came in a pcnic style bag with so many fullsize bottles of products in i actually get lost trying to find them!!!!! lol (i will try n take a photo of it with the stuff in cos u just wouldnt believe it!!) think im gonna try it on my civic!!!

Jayne x

Yeap I got a supaguard pack with my new honda, and its full of after care products. I would get back to the dealer and ask for this pack - think its free to them from supaguard.

[Dalboy]

Originally Posted by xYKMFx chris

I too have had to contact my dealers this week as i was going through the honda folder we were given and discovered that our paperwork for the supaguard was in there and had not been filled in.....the woman i spoke to said oh just bring it in and i will fill it in for you..... so i questioned whether it had been done at all and was told it would have been because otherwise i would not have had the paperwork for it!!!

Also i had supaguard on both of my clios and with both i got a top up pack free - not the case with honda!!! Has anyone else had this with honda?? Has anyone actually recieved a pack???

I had diamond brite on my freelander and i must say it never looked dirty and the pack i got was enormous and came in a pcnic style bag with so many fullsize bottles of products in i actually get lost trying to find them!!!!! lol (i will try n take a photo of it with the stuff in cos u just wouldnt believe it!!) think im gonna try it on my civic!!!

Jayne x

I received a top up pack

[Charles_Harding]

I received the top up pack on delivery.

Even applied the stuff as told!

Still wore off within 6 months!

Charlie's Elbow Grease seems to be the better answer!

"Lady H. reckons that the only reason that men were put on this earth was for lawn care and car maintenance!"

[Mr JP]

Second only to gap insurance in the biggest scam in the new car dealer industry. The protection is a disgrace and not protection at all. I wouldn't pay £3 let alone £300, half the time it's not applied properly by the monkey's at the dealers and it is wildly overpriced.

They will tell you it helps protect against weathering, mine even said it would help against stone chips! I reckon they would tell you it makes your car faster if they could get away with it.

[Smithyp1]

Originally Posted by Mr JP

Second only to gap insurance in the biggest scam in the new car dealer industry. The protection is a disgrace and not protection at all. I wouldn't pay £3 let alone £300, half the time it's not applied properly by the monkey's at the dealers and it is wildly overpriced.

They will tell you it helps protect against weathering, mine even said it would help against stone chips! I reckon they would tell you it makes your car faster if they could get away with it.

Totally off subject so apologies OP, but why do you think GAP insurance is a scam? Surely it's an advantage to have if your car gets nicked, wrote off etc...?

[Dimplyred]

Originally Posted by Smithyp1

Totally off subject so apologies OP, but why do you think GAP insurance is a scam? Surely it's an advantage to have if your car gets nicked, wrote off etc...?

It is an advantage, but dealers charge you extra for getting it from them. As with paint protection.

You can get similar policies from a variety for companies a lot cheaper.

[Charles_Harding]

Originally Posted by Dimplyred

It is an advantage, but dealers charge you extra for getting it from them. As with paint protection.

You can get similar policies from a variety for companies a lot cheaper.

I totally agree with that, Dimplyred!

......as you might have already guessed both Charlie and Millie were caught in both of those!

"Alcohol makes an ideal substitute for happiness!"

[NH Dan]

Originally Posted by NoNumpty

Yeap I got a supaguard pack with my new honda, and its full of after care products. I would get back to the dealer and ask for this pack - think its free to them from supaguard.

It comes as part of the set unless they have bought the basic of basic packs. The packs that you get the full holdal full of stuff are considerably more expensive.

[Mr JP]

Precisely DimplyRed, That's what I ment, GAP insurance is massively inflated through the dealers. Not only that but I see it as a waste in the first year of ownership anyway because I have yet to find an insurance company that doesn't give full RRP value if written off in the first year.

Obviously subsequent years they only give you market value which is where GAP is advantageous.

[Bulldoguk69]

Good Afternoon. I work as a Sales Exectuive for 'Safegard' and thought i would take the oppertunity to chuck my oar in on this conversation. I surprises me that quite a few people classify 'Paint Protection' as a single entity. I liken it to branding 'Cars' as a single entity. If you bought one bad car would it put you off for life? No, you recognise that there are several different qualities of manufacturer out there are you'd try another. There are several prominent Paint and Upholstery Protection Companies on the market place all with products of varying quality. As an employee of 'Safegard' you would expect me to tell you all that we have the best product on the market place and how everyone should invest in it for there new purchase. I really don't need to do that. We are one of the fastest growing companies in the Uk Car Market with hundreds of Dealerships coverting from other manufacturers to the Safegard program every year. Our paint sealant (currently) is the only sealant in the Uk Market that contains PTFE (the same additive that goes onto your teflon frying pan to make it non-stick) and our guarantee is second to none. Your customer after care pack is worth well in excess of £100.00 on the retail market and contains some extremely high quality cleaning prodcuts to keep the rest of your vehicle looking superb.
I feel that i need to point out that the Safegard program is not available to the general public due to the health and Safety issues with the Upholstery and carpet Protection treatment, and would strongly recommend that you do not attempt to use it at home. Historically there have been fatalities in the car industry from the incorect use of similiar products to the Safegard Carpet and Upholstery protector and that it why all Valeters are fully trained by a qualified representative from Safegard. As someone pointed out earlier, it is not too dis-similiar to the Old Scotchgard treatments and a very high percentage of the general public have recognised the benfits of this on there sofas, carpets and curtains. For £300.00 (Is that what you paid for it ?) I think it is an excellent choice for any discerning motorist who wants to make sure that the second largest investment of his life continues to look as good as the day it was bought.
In regards to your paperwork, as you have discovered, 'Safegard' do not have alot of control over the attention to adminsitration in our clientels dealerships. I would recommend making sure that you are given a copy of the guarantee document and that a copy is sent off to the Safegard HQ in Dorset. As someone else mentioned, a good idea is to test the seats of your car with a small amount of water. If it beads up as you were probably shown during the sales presentation then you can be confident that it has been treated. If not then go back to your dealer and tell them you want to claim. The Safegard Guarantee has NO claim limits.
The Guarantee is outstanding and Safegard will react quickly as effeicently to deal with any issue you have. I hope that clears up any concerns and if you have any more questions please give me a shout.

[PJS]

Bulldog, whilst I recognise the interior treatment is potentially worth it for someone who has cloth interior and accident-prone children (or adult friends/family after a night out!), I have major misgivings about the validity of purported claims on the exterior treatment.
I would offer you to ask the company to put its money where its mouth is, and submit the product for testing in a salt spray testing booth, as outlined under ASTM B-117* testing procedures.
I would be very confident that the product would fail when viewed after a 24 hour period.
If, like all the other 'treatments' offered, the warranty is based around continued use of one's own shampoo and monthly top-up product, then I think those alone are two very good reasons to steer clear of it and the others - since this is nothing more than what the majority of owners do most weeks anyway, even if not to the same nth degree that some of us do.

Furthermore, depending on where the car is parked, industrial fallout will contaminate the paint, requiring a clay bar to be used. I'd lay good odds on that being the case, the product has been removed, and no washing and topping up will replenish it.
Of course, as you don't advocate clay baring the paint, you side step this aspect.
Couple that with using a sponge, creating fresh new swirls, then those areas of the paintwork too will have lost the product.

When any company produces a product which truly does last for years and can be washed with regular car shampoo, and prevent embedding of contaminants, then I'll be more than willing to extoll the virtues of it. Until then, I'll stick with the one company whom I know don't pass off horse manure as chocolate brownies, and are the ONLY company who've proven their product withstands the ASTM B-117 test with aplomb.

So, by all means consider the interior treatment - it works, but the exterior one is not all it's cracked up to be. You'd be as well to adopt a regular cleaning regime to maintain the looks and value of your vehicle.


* ASTM B-117 is an industry standard test, among many conducted, to assess a manufacturer's product for anti-corrosion durability.
It simulates the effect over a 24 hour period, of exposure to salt water at 40ºC, as an accelerated measurement for durability to ward off corrosion.
The same test can be conducted for many thousands of hours straight to portray extended service life.
As can be seen from the Bilt Hamber site, none of the other products tested lasted 24 hours before the samples were completely corroded - and even if the 24 hours period was representative of 4-6 weeks in the real world, it demonstrates those tested don't last anywhere near as long as thought/expected.

[Bulldoguk69]

PJS, where i clearly hold my hands up to you clear understanding of the ASTM B-117* procedure i don't really see the validity of this. The Paint protection product is not designed to guarantee against corrossion of the body work, just the continued protection of the paint finish it's self. It also do clearly state that it does not offer an exaustable level of protection against the like of industrial fall out, bird droppings and tree sap etc.. however does offer a considerable increase in the delay from damage from such contaminates. As previously stated please do not tarnish all paint protection products with the same problems. The Safegard Paint protection sealant does not come with monthly conservers or addatives you require to put in the wash every month. It is partly a Polymer Resin that lasts around three years and requires absolutely no maintenance during this time what so ever. I think trading standards would have something to say if the product didn't do what it says it does. One of our biggest competitors Supagard have been saying for years that 'you do not need to polish you car for three years'. They have silimar Polymer resins in there product as the Safegard treatment. I find it disapointing that some one clearly as educated as yourself seems to think that all these products are the same and happily writes them off without understanding the technology behind them.
The Safegard Paint Sealant is marketed to do three primary things:
A: Make your car easier to clean, therefore reducing the time required to carry out the job. With the PTFE included (teflon) in the sealant this technology has been on the market place in much more extreme conditions that the automotive market and been very successful.
B: No Polish for Three Years. The polymer Resin in the product seals in the carnauba Wax (part of the treatment) onto the body work of the car. therefore after every wash you get a polished finish. This is a valeter polish finish, not a two day, eight hour per day detailed mirror finish that enthusiasts dedicate there time to.
C: Offer a high level of protection against harsh contaminates in the enviroment. It does not at any point in any literature point out the these will be stopped.
As you have already pointed out, The interior treatment is essential to the majority of the general public (preventative Maintenance) and the exterior treatment is there as an additional layer of protection to stop your car looking old and tired in the years to come.
Safegard comes with a ten year guarantee. It is widely classed as the best guarantee on the market place. There is a small amount of maintenance after three years but that is just a reapplication of a polymer resin formula to continue the added protection that the paint sealant offers.
To the original request for a perception on Safegard. I know it is worth every penny. Ask anyone who has had to claim ?

[PJS]

Originally Posted by Bulldoguk69

PJS, where i clearly hold my hands up to you clear understanding of the ASTM B-117* procedure i don't really see the validity of this. The Paint protection product is not designed to guarantee against corrossion of the body work, just the continued protection of the paint finish it's self. It also do clearly state that it does not offer an exaustable level of protection against the like of industrial fall out, bird droppings and tree sap etc.. however does offer a considerable increase in the delay from damage from such contaminates. As previously stated please do not tarnish all paint protection products with the same problems. The Safegard Paint protection sealant does not come with monthly conservers or addatives you require to put in the wash every month. It is partly a Polymer Resin that lasts around three years and requires absolutely no maintenance during this time what so ever. I think trading standards would have something to say if the product didn't do what it says it does. One of our biggest competitors Supagard have been saying for years that 'you do not need to polish you car for three years'. They have silimar Polymer resins in there product as the Safegard treatment. I find it disapointing that some one clearly as educated as yourself seems to think that all these products are the same and happily writes them off without understanding the technology behind them.
The Safegard Paint Sealant is marketed to do three primary things:
A: Make your car easier to clean, therefore reducing the time required to carry out the job. With the PTFE included (teflon) in the sealant this technology has been on the market place in much more extreme conditions that the automotive market and been very successful.
B: No Polish for Three Years. The polymer Resin in the product seals in the carnauba Wax (part of the treatment) onto the body work of the car. therefore after every wash you get a polished finish. This is a valeter polish finish, not a two day, eight hour per day detailed mirror finish that enthusiasts dedicate there time to.
C: Offer a high level of protection against harsh contaminates in the enviroment. It does not at any point in any literature point out the these will be stopped.
As you have already pointed out, The interior treatment is essential to the majority of the general public (preventative Maintenance) and the exterior treatment is there as an additional layer of protection to stop your car looking old and tired in the years to come.
Safegard comes with a ten year guarantee. It is widely classed as the best guarantee on the market place. There is a small amount of maintenance after three years but that is just a reapplication of a polymer resin formula to continue the added protection that the paint sealant offers.
To the original request for a perception on Safegard. I know it is worth every penny. Ask anyone who has had to claim ?

Bulldog, I'll reiterate what I've said above and in previous posts in this thread - ANY manufacturer proclaiming THEIR product lasts through ALL weather conditions, and bombardment of industrial pollution/fallout/etc, that discounts the salt spray test in accordance with ASTM B-117, clearly has something to shy away from.

Again, the purpose of the test is to measure the effectiveness of ANY product to withstand a period of time with a known quantity of attack - namely salt water (not sure the exact solution strength) at 30 or 40ºC.
This is what's called an accelerated test - in that you could conduct a test in the real world, but would you rather wait 6 months or longer to see what the outcome was?
No, of course not, so the method is to speed up the process so you can assess multiple formulations in a short period of time to see which ones are worth concentrating on for further analysis and development.

Therefore, the test is very valid for car care products purporting to have a long durability. Why? Well, the corrosion is the visual indicator that the product has or hasn't done its job - and as you can see from the image on page 1, all 6 tested products failed spectacularly, especially #6 which I know what particular product that was!

Now, I offer yet again for the company to put its money where its mouth is, and submit its product for independent verification that it does what it claims to do.
It's not an expensive test, but Bilt Hamber has already offered (on another forum) to conduct the tests in anonymity, if preferred, at no cost to the companies who are prepared to submit their products voluntarily.
There's absolutely no problem them buying the product, and doing the test without any manufacturer's approval, and publishing the results - but the offer is there for the taking.

If the product is true to its word, then you'll have effectively killed off a large part of the detailing market due to pro and amateur detailers alike, buying the product instead of their numerous other wax and sealants for their own and clients' cars.
I suspect though, and I don't wish this to turn into a war of words, that your employer probably won't provide the product for testing, and will continue to use the corrosion argument to maintain its credibility.
Whilst there are many gullible people around who'll believe ever word that a marketing dept print, I'm not one of them, and will debunk all products that make claims way beyond their reach.

Concerning sealants/waxes and bird bombs - not all bombs are the same. Some can be harmless, others can be destructive within hours, if not shorter.
No protective layer, which is about 20-30 Ångstroms thin, has the capacity to neutralise the acidic or alkaline contents deposited on the vehicle.
If it's strong enough to etch through clearcoat/lacquer, it's going to dispense of any protective layer with equal ease.

Lastly, and another reiteration, if PTFE, modified or not (modified PTFE isn't PTFE any more, is it?) can be only of any use when baked on as a coating, at over 700ºF, iirc.
Someone at DuPont, was asked many years ago about PTFE (Teflon - their own trademarked product) in car care products - their response was that they could see no feasible way in which PTFE could be effectively applied, retained on the paintwork, or offer any benefit based on what the material is renowned for.
So, again we have missing pieces of the puzzle (intentionally) which leaves it to the unsuspecting consumer to make the connection, which very neatly lets the legal and marketing dept off the hook!
Similarly nano - just have a look at how many products use the word nano in their marketing/labelling. Why? Because people know of nano from areas where it does have major rewards for usage, but in most of the cases where it's trotted out as a SP (selling point, but hardly a unique one in this day and age), it's without any merit once scrutinised.
But then, that's where companies win - people aren't like myself and others, and blindly accept what they're fed.

There you go - I've said all I feel needs saying, and I look forward to the company posting up the results of the salt spray test, especially if it manages to outlast Autobalm at 72 hours straight.
At that point, I'll happily sign up.
Oh, and no tweaking the test formulation - only the one which is sold please.
Fair's fair, and all that!


Some links:
Experiences with Six Star Paint treatment anyone? - OzMazdaClub.com - Australia's Best Mazda Car Club and Forum
Teflon Paint Sealants Revisited - CarSpace Automotive Forums
Mark of Perfection - Manville, NJ- Stop - Auto Cleaning & Detailing - Manville, NJ - Mark of Perfection
Teflon Based waxes and Sealants
Teflon Wax / Teflon Car care
Car Wax with PTFE - Benzworld.org - Mercedes Benz Discussion Forum
Paint Protection Systems - Niteo Ltd

That last one, a competitor to yourselves and the other 'treatment' providers, has been tested in accordance with ASTM B117 - and it....well....let's just say, it didn't!
Collinite is due for its test soon - so the most durable carnauba wax is going to show what it's made of.

To be fair though, some of those linked sites above have members who are convinced the product works on their car - so I've not been particularly selective on which links to provide to 'disprove' the PTFE aspect.
I trust in doing so, it's accepted that I've no particular axe to grind as such, but just don't believe the claims made until I see some empirical evidence.
Anecdotal "proof" means diddly squat, since I've been banging on about Bilt Hamber's Autobalm for a while here, and those who've taken a punt on it based on my recommendations, have had nothing but high praise for it - but in the absence of the image on page 1, it'd be pure anecdotal evidence that the product is as good as it suggests it is.