Can you replace the Black Vinyl between front/back windows? - Page 2

coolice · 19th March 2008, 01:45

Hey I_Believe,

I totally agree that the best way is to apply any vinyl dry (and marks you as being a skilled person) but you've also mentioned the water/soap solution provides a "float barrier" which makes for easy positioning which I would think that people who are not experienced in vinyl application will benefit from.
Of course sign writers will know that the large the job the more benefical it is to have this facilty, small jobs like these door protectors you could probably do with your eyes closed. But then again not everyone is skilled with applying vinyl.

In an ideal world the proper product, eg. RapidTac is the best solution, but this is relatively expensive to buy and so someone wishing to add just one or two door protectors/stickers could not justify this type of purchase.
They could visit a local sign shop perhaps and try to scrounge some.

You may not agree with the soap & water trick but in reality it does work as a cheap method, the window tinting you buy off the shelf from car shops from memory recommends this method. You may scorn this as cheap and nasty & take longer to dry but it works.
Indeed my first car was tinted using this method and when I sold the car it certainly didn't want to come off easy! And I didn't have any visability issues once dried, it goes a white haze while it's drying but dries clear.

Am I to assume you class me as a sign writer who cant do the job right for suggesting this tip?
I may have read it wrong but it comes across that way matey.

At the end of the day I offered some advice from what I have experienced/used and would not dream of passing that knowledge on if I felt it wound mess things up for someone else.

Ian

P.S. Soap & water cant be that bad if it mentioned on the net for vinyl application, by people who have been doing it much longer than myself :

1. Stripping and applying vinyl graphics

2. Vinyl Installation

3. Sign makers Help & Advice, Video Tutorials, Vehicle Wrapping, Vinyl Application, Sign Design, Digital Printing, Sign Fabrication and so much more.

4. Sign makers Help & Advice, Video Tutorials, Vehicle Wrapping, Vinyl Application, Sign Design, Digital Printing, Sign Fabrication and so much more.

5. Sign makers Help & Advice, Video Tutorials, Vehicle Wrapping, Vinyl Application, Sign Design, Digital Printing, Sign Fabrication and so much more.

It's a double edged sword I am afraid, there is good points and bad points to using the soapy water trick reading various web pages but it does work if your not confident applying vinyl dry.
My advice try both ways if in doubt and if you make a mistake use the spare vinyl. I'v even just come across shampoo mentioned mixed with water, never heard that before.

I_Believe · 19th March 2008, 02:15

i did not wish my post to seem like a personal attack on you i do not know what your experiences are with vinyl graphics and installation

the link you posted do not use soap as in fairly liquid they use dishwashing liquid (the stuff you used to put in a dishwasher that smells like lemon) wich is different from fairy in the way it is suspended in the water if you do insist on using soap of some description use johnstons baby bath as is it only a mild soap but in personal and proffesional oppinion i would not use anything that creates a barrier between the vinyl and application surface.

so as to let you know my personal experiences with vinyl i used to wrap taxis in edinburgh and glasgow, do commercial signage for savills homes, pitch side hoarding at numerous rugby grounds, signage for the royal scots (before the analgamation), and as a personal best can apply a 1350mm by 3550mm sheet of vinyl on my own dry and without bubbles or creases.

coolice · 19th March 2008, 09:09

Hey,

Ah thats ok, I just misread it wrong.

Yeah, must admit to not thinking about the detergent agents in washing up liquid which while has proved to be ok for the job, may not be the best.
Hence the mentioning of baby shampoo in vinyl forums which is also milder on the skin & hands

I would be honest and say my experience is not quite as broad as yours (I'm a CAD Designer by trade, I got my cutter 2.5 years ago to expand my business services if you like).
So far I've done commercial work for Barratt Homes & Kings Oak sales offices, a couple of local shops, warning signs, a couple of vehicles so far and smaller stuff related to a hobby of mine.

Any how we're straying a little off topic, bottom line if the vinyl your applying is big and your not confident there is alternatives to helping you fit it.

Ian

thunt · 20th March 2008, 23:16

I picked up the sticker set today. It says on the back its 3M Scotchcal automtoive grade with Comply adhesive. 3M claim this adhesive makes for an easier bubble free application.

Does anyone have dealings with this stuff? Does it make application easier?

I_Believe · 21st March 2008, 01:45

it does yes the glue on the rear of automotive vinyl is stored in bubbles although it is still tacky when you remove the backing it will not become fully sticky untill you apply pressure to the vinyl and 'burst' the glue bubbles.

thunt · 21st March 2008, 15:01

So my next question...

Does anyone know how to remove the window seal that runs along the bottom of the drivers door window on the outside?

Tried pulling and it seemed pretty secure and didn't want to use too much brute force in case something broke.

I_Believe · 21st March 2008, 21:49

sorry no idea on that one

Jack The Lad. · 21st March 2008, 22:03

Could that be why is can be ordered as a complete part.

thunt · 21st March 2008, 22:19

I don't think so. The vinyl kit comes in 2 pieces. One for the upright and the other to go round the top of the window frame.

I only need to fit the upright, but it goes down behind the rubber trim at the top of the door that seals against the window on the outside.

Totally separate parts so not part of the same kit.

bucketp · 17th June 2008, 10:22

Thunt did you manage to fit this, I have just ordered the same part and am going to try to fit this weekend if the weathers ok. Did you have any problems or did it go on quite easy? How hard is it to remove the vinyl that is already on there?
I have read all the tips from above and feel fairly confident in doing it myself, just need to know if there is anything I need to look out for.

thunt · 17th June 2008, 20:45

I still have it in the box as I haven't got round to it yet. I must admit I was put off by the section that goes under the window seal. I was advised not to even attempt removing the seal. If you're feeling brave, I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

I read that the glue on the black sticker kit has 'micro chanels' in it that allow you to squeeze the air out after its positioned so I think it is quite easy to apply it without getting bubbles.

bucketp · 18th June 2008, 11:25

Im feeling prety much the same as you are, ordered the parts then got them home and thought, this doesnt look quite so easy! Not sure how to remove the rubber on the side of the window frame myself, If any body has any suggestions.
I dont really have a problem with sticking the vinyl on , its removing the seals that bother me.

bucketp · 4th July 2008, 23:19

Finally took the plunge and replaced the vinyl tonight. Really difficult to get the old vinyl off, tried heating with hot gun ,didn't make any difference (apart from burning my finger on hot Vinyl) took a long painstaking 2 hours to peel it all off. Applying the new one was easy , keep the window down and use thin spatula to push the vinyl under the rubbers and away you go.
If it gets damaged again I think I will just leave it.

All in all it took about 2.5hours. very fiddly.

gladdl · 7th July 2008, 08:32

Hi,

Funny you should be asking this question as I posted it on another thread and didn't get any responses. I have however managed to remove the scratch from mine.

All I used was some black T-Cut. I put it on using a cotton bud and then polished it off. Seems to have lifted it right out. It isn't the scratch remover T-Cut but the normal colour magic one in black.

If that doesn't work then the T-Cut scratch remover may help.

19th March 2008, 01:45	#21 (permalink)
coolice Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 14th March 2008 Location: UK Posts: 225 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hey I_Believe, I totally agree that the best way is to apply any vinyl dry (and marks you as being a skilled person) but you've also mentioned the water/soap solution provides a "float barrier" which makes for easy positioning which I would think that people who are not experienced in vinyl application will benefit from. Of course sign writers will know that the large the job the more benefical it is to have this facilty, small jobs like these door protectors you could probably do with your eyes closed. But then again not everyone is skilled with applying vinyl. In an ideal world the proper product, eg. RapidTac is the best solution, but this is relatively expensive to buy and so someone wishing to add just one or two door protectors/stickers could not justify this type of purchase. They could visit a local sign shop perhaps and try to scrounge some. You may not agree with the soap & water trick but in reality it does work as a cheap method, the window tinting you buy off the shelf from car shops from memory recommends this method. You may scorn this as cheap and nasty & take longer to dry but it works. Indeed my first car was tinted using this method and when I sold the car it certainly didn't want to come off easy! And I didn't have any visability issues once dried, it goes a white haze while it's drying but dries clear. Am I to assume you class me as a sign writer who cant do the job right for suggesting this tip? I may have read it wrong but it comes across that way matey. At the end of the day I offered some advice from what I have experienced/used and would not dream of passing that knowledge on if I felt it wound mess things up for someone else. Ian P.S. Soap & water cant be that bad if it mentioned on the net for vinyl application, by people who have been doing it much longer than myself : 1. Stripping and applying vinyl graphics 2. Vinyl Installation 3. Sign makers Help & Advice, Video Tutorials, Vehicle Wrapping, Vinyl Application, Sign Design, Digital Printing, Sign Fabrication and so much more. 4. Sign makers Help & Advice, Video Tutorials, Vehicle Wrapping, Vinyl Application, Sign Design, Digital Printing, Sign Fabrication and so much more. 5. Sign makers Help & Advice, Video Tutorials, Vehicle Wrapping, Vinyl Application, Sign Design, Digital Printing, Sign Fabrication and so much more. It's a double edged sword I am afraid, there is good points and bad points to using the soapy water trick reading various web pages but it does work if your not confident applying vinyl dry. My advice try both ways if in doubt and if you make a mistake use the spare vinyl. I'v even just come across shampoo mentioned mixed with water, never heard that before. Last edited by coolice; 19th March 2008 at 02:13.

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This thread is about: Can you replace the Black Vinyl between front/back windows?, it's in Styling at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Hey I_Believe, I totally agree that the best way is to apply any vinyl dry (and marks you as being a skilled person) but you've ...

19th March 2008, 02:15	#22 (permalink)
I_Believe Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 12th February 2008 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	i did not wish my post to seem like a personal attack on you i do not know what your experiences are with vinyl graphics and installation the link you posted do not use soap as in fairly liquid they use dishwashing liquid (the stuff you used to put in a dishwasher that smells like lemon) wich is different from fairy in the way it is suspended in the water if you do insist on using soap of some description use johnstons baby bath as is it only a mild soap but in personal and proffesional oppinion i would not use anything that creates a barrier between the vinyl and application surface. so as to let you know my personal experiences with vinyl i used to wrap taxis in edinburgh and glasgow, do commercial signage for savills homes, pitch side hoarding at numerous rugby grounds, signage for the royal scots (before the analgamation), and as a personal best can apply a 1350mm by 3550mm sheet of vinyl on my own dry and without bubbles or creases.

19th March 2008, 09:09	#23 (permalink)
coolice Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 14th March 2008 Location: UK Posts: 225 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hey, Ah thats ok, I just misread it wrong. Yeah, must admit to not thinking about the detergent agents in washing up liquid which while has proved to be ok for the job, may not be the best. Hence the mentioning of baby shampoo in vinyl forums which is also milder on the skin & hands I would be honest and say my experience is not quite as broad as yours (I'm a CAD Designer by trade, I got my cutter 2.5 years ago to expand my business services if you like). So far I've done commercial work for Barratt Homes & Kings Oak sales offices, a couple of local shops, warning signs, a couple of vehicles so far and smaller stuff related to a hobby of mine. Any how we're straying a little off topic, bottom line if the vinyl your applying is big and your not confident there is alternatives to helping you fit it. Ian

20th March 2008, 23:16	#24 (permalink)
thunt Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 14th February 2008 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I picked up the sticker set today. It says on the back its 3M Scotchcal automtoive grade with Comply adhesive. 3M claim this adhesive makes for an easier bubble free application. Does anyone have dealings with this stuff? Does it make application easier?

21st March 2008, 01:45	#25 (permalink)
I_Believe Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 12th February 2008 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	it does yes the glue on the rear of automotive vinyl is stored in bubbles although it is still tacky when you remove the backing it will not become fully sticky untill you apply pressure to the vinyl and 'burst' the glue bubbles.

21st March 2008, 15:01	#26 (permalink)
thunt Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 14th February 2008 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	So my next question... Does anyone know how to remove the window seal that runs along the bottom of the drivers door window on the outside? Tried pulling and it seemed pretty secure and didn't want to use too much brute force in case something broke.

21st March 2008, 21:49	#27 (permalink)
I_Believe Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 12th February 2008 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 106 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	sorry no idea on that one

21st March 2008, 22:03	#28 (permalink)
Jack The Lad. Supporter Rocketship door handle Join Date: 28th August 2007 Location: ENGLAND Posts: 1,906 Thanks: 8 Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts iTrader: (0)	Could that be why is can be ordered as a complete part.

21st March 2008, 22:19	#29 (permalink)
thunt Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 14th February 2008 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I don't think so. The vinyl kit comes in 2 pieces. One for the upright and the other to go round the top of the window frame. I only need to fit the upright, but it goes down behind the rubber trim at the top of the door that seals against the window on the outside. Totally separate parts so not part of the same kit.

17th June 2008, 10:22	#30 (permalink)
bucketp Exiled Englishman Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 23rd October 2007 Location: Peebles, Scottish Borders Posts: 422 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Thunt did you manage to fit this, I have just ordered the same part and am going to try to fit this weekend if the weathers ok. Did you have any problems or did it go on quite easy? How hard is it to remove the vinyl that is already on there? I have read all the tips from above and feel fairly confident in doing it myself, just need to know if there is anything I need to look out for.

17th June 2008, 20:45	#31 (permalink)
thunt Supporter Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 14th February 2008 Location: Devon, UK Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I still have it in the box as I haven't got round to it yet. I must admit I was put off by the section that goes under the window seal. I was advised not to even attempt removing the seal. If you're feeling brave, I'd be interested to hear how you get on. I read that the glue on the black sticker kit has 'micro chanels' in it that allow you to squeeze the air out after its positioned so I think it is quite easy to apply it without getting bubbles.

18th June 2008, 11:25	#32 (permalink)
bucketp Exiled Englishman Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 23rd October 2007 Location: Peebles, Scottish Borders Posts: 422 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Im feeling prety much the same as you are, ordered the parts then got them home and thought, this doesnt look quite so easy! Not sure how to remove the rubber on the side of the window frame myself, If any body has any suggestions. I dont really have a problem with sticking the vinyl on , its removing the seals that bother me.

4th July 2008, 23:19	#33 (permalink)
bucketp Exiled Englishman Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 23rd October 2007 Location: Peebles, Scottish Borders Posts: 422 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Finally took the plunge and replaced the vinyl tonight. Really difficult to get the old vinyl off, tried heating with hot gun ,didn't make any difference (apart from burning my finger on hot Vinyl) took a long painstaking 2 hours to peel it all off. Applying the new one was easy , keep the window down and use thin spatula to push the vinyl under the rubbers and away you go. If it gets damaged again I think I will just leave it. All in all it took about 2.5hours. very fiddly.

7th July 2008, 08:32	#34 (permalink)
gladdl Valve Cap Join Date: 21st April 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi, Funny you should be asking this question as I posted it on another thread and didn't get any responses. I have however managed to remove the scratch from mine. All I used was some black T-Cut. I put it on using a cotton bud and then polished it off. Seems to have lifted it right out. It isn't the scratch remover T-Cut but the normal colour magic one in black. If that doesn't work then the T-Cut scratch remover may help.