Swirls, swirls and more swirls!

[PJS]

Originally Posted by Topcat

If you put a machine to the paintwork an it is already too thin surely you will be losing vital microns.

Most factory paints are around the 110-130 µm level.
Working on the basis of equal thirds (primer, basecoat, clearcoat) then you have approx. 35-40 µm to play with.
Using a machine polisher and something like Menzerna Final Finish or even Intensive Polish, would probably only result in 1-3 µm removed.
Obviously the deeper the marks, if not fingernail-catching, will require more removed. Ultimately a good cleaning regime should mean not having to polish more than 2-3 times a year at most.

Something some people might consider doing, is get the car prep'd by a pro to a mirror finish, and then have the paint clearcoated with once of the new tougher clears like those on the German marques.
Will cost quite a bit more than say Supaguarding it, but then it will be a thicker topcoat to work with, along with having greater resilience to scratching.

That's what I'm thinking of with the Accord - as it really does need so much work done to it. So, if I do, and I may even change the colour, it WILL be having one of those types of clear put on it.
Given the Civic's is softer again - if I was getting one new or used, I'd definitely budget for this sort of work to be done, even though correcting the defects is fairly straight forward.
Rather than £800+ on new wheels, etc, get the paint sorted as it'll give the car a higher residual when you sell it, than a set of bigger alloys will.

From there, your car care regime will be quite a bit easier.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by PJS

Most factory paints are around the 110-130 µm level.
Working on the basis of equal thirds (primer, basecoat, clearcoat) then you have approx. 35-40 µm to play with.

Exactly MOST factory paints but many of us know the Civic's paint just isnt like that - and I know for a fact from my paint report that that the layers are definately not of equal amounts, the clearcoat being very thin in many places.

My local dealership were reluctant to put a machine to mine because of this so I suggest that unless anyone knows for sure what their paint measures they think twice about sanding valuable paint off.

[Thickplank]

Originally Posted by sallytraffic

I also have a NHB and am in Manchester. Thanks goodness they look fine in the rain Not found the sunlight to be a great problem yet

But I know what you mean, the effort to keep it looking good, however, is well worth it in my opinion. Keep reading stuff here and work on it gently a panel at a time.

As far as the 'blank canvas' suggestion. This is a good one, but not one I would want to use too often or it would be every couple of months. I'd prefer to try and keep on top of it for as long as possible and go for the 'blank canvas' after it gets impossible to keep up with the small stone chips and swirls.

I 'filled' a couple of small chips with the touch-up stick yesterday and by today the paint had contracted below the level of the chip so I just removed the small excess around the chip with a slight abrasive on a cloth wrapped round the end of a lolly stick, went over the area around it with ScratchX and it has started to rain again, of course. I'll put another dab of paint on with a cocktail stick when it is dry and do the same again, then polish and wax. I think they will disguise pretty well that way.

You do have to understand that this is life and do the best you can to keep it looking smart. It is always worse for you because you know exactly where to look ! To others it will look a lot, lot better

Thanks for the advice. What chip stick did you use? How are you finding Scratch X is doing>

[PJS]

Originally Posted by Topcat

Exactly MOST factory paints but many of us know the Civic's paint just isnt like that - and I know for a fact from my paint report that that the layers are definately not of equal amounts, the clearcoat being very thin in many places.

My local dealership were reluctant to put a machine to mine because of this so I suggest that unless anyone knows for sure what their paint measures they think twice about sanding valuable paint off.

Yes, I read another thread linked from a member also on DW, and I can't believe the situation. Absolutely crazy and unfathomable that Honda of all companies would do such a thing.
70-80 µm is essentially single stage paint thickness, and if you ever measured any areas with that amount, you'd steer well clear of them with any machine.
I hope you're instrumental in effecting a change by Honda, although I doubt it.

What I would do, is seriously get every member here with a new shape Civic, to have their paint measured - doesn't need to be each layer, as polishing is only ever about the clearcoat, and see what the results are like.
If there's a trend, then you can present the info to Honda directly, and BBC's Watchdog, although it's not the same since Annie left.
That and Trading Standards, as well as RAC, and Top Gear.

Bear in mind, anyone getting a pro detailer to measure their paint for them, should have a full report done - there'll be over 250 points measured, and mapped out as to where each high and low point is on the car.
It'll cost £30 probably, and if you need my assistance to help orchestrate it, let me know, and I'll see what I can do.
The only way you'll make this work and happen for you, is to act as one voice rather than one or two here and there.

[sallytraffic]

Originally Posted by Thickplank

Thanks for the advice. What chip stick did you use? How are you finding Scratch X is doing>

I used the Turtle Wax chipstick. It is included on the side of their coloured wax bottle, Halfords have it. Irritating that you have to buy the wax to get the chipstick, but I did use the wax on one occasion as it is black and helped disguise a scratch that was little more than I could or wanted to go with ScratchX. ScratchX works well for surface marks. It does not seem overly abrasive. My neighbour gave me some more abrasive stuff that I used on the end of the lolly stick to take off the excess paint from the pen.

I think I'd rather use the touch-up pen when I have time but the wax chipstick seems to be a good quick fix.

[Thickplank]

Originally Posted by sallytraffic

I used the Turtle Wax chipstick. It is included on the side of their coloured wax bottle, Halfords have it. Irritating that you have to buy the wax to get the chipstick, but I did use the wax on one occasion as it is black and helped disguise a scratch that was little more than I could or wanted to go with ScratchX. ScratchX works well for surface marks. It does not seem overly abrasive. My neighbour gave me some more abrasive stuff that I used on the end of the lolly stick to take off the excess paint from the pen.

I think I'd rather use the touch-up pen when I have time but the wax chipstick seems to be a good quick fix.

Thanks for that. What is the overall condition of the painwork of your civic? Do you have the swirl problem aswell?
I have eyed up a few civics in car parks and you can almost age the NHB cars by the visibility of the swirls.
Its a bit like the rings in a tree!

[sallytraffic]

Originally Posted by Thickplank

Thanks for that. What is the overall condition of the painwork of your civic? Do you have the swirl problem aswell?
I have eyed up a few civics in car parks and you can almost age the NHB cars by the visibility of the swirls.
Its a bit like the rings in a tree!

It is 2 months old, a little more. Condition seems very good although once, in that very rare bright sunlight, when you could see wonderful blue speckles in the paintwork of the bonnet, I noticed the swirls there. A number of paint chips that have been worked on fairly effectively up to now. Thats all. I did manage to get out quite a few nasty scratches on a back panel with robbo's help at the meet. Thanks again, robbo

[PJS]

Interesting to see this CTR, and another member's CTS are measuring >110µm

Auto Finesse VS New Civic Type R - Detailing World

[uncler]

Originally Posted by PJS

Interesting to see this CTR, and another member's CTS are measuring >110µm

Auto Finesse VS New Civic Type R - Detailing World

Yep, that's my machine getting done - just collected it last night! Can't believe someone beat me to adding the link.

The car looks absolutely superb now, despite having to drive it home in the torrential rain yesterday . James of Auto Finesse also went through proper car washing techniques and gave me a list of what I needed to get hold of - car washing in future will be undertaken with surgical precision and following these instructions precisely. Quite disappointed that I let in get in that state really, but live & learn as they say...

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by uncler

Yep, that's my machine getting done - just collected it last night! Can't believe someone beat me to adding the link.

The car looks absolutely superb now, despite having to drive it home in the torrential rain yesterday . James of Auto Finesse also went through proper car washing techniques and gave me a list of what I needed to get hold of - car washing in future will be undertaken with surgical precision and following these instructions precisely. Quite disappointed that I let in get in that state really, but live & learn as they say...

can i just ask how much it was, approx , please
looks great btw

[MisterTee]

I had a few light scratches around the drivers door where someone obviously had the keys in their hand when they opened the door and was a bit careless

A friend of mine recommended Autoglym super resin, which you can get from Halfords. There's a knack of applying it, basically its small particles which get smaller as you rub and these fill in the scratches and swirls (in much the same way as supaguard). So, to put it on, you need a lot of pressure at first to get the particles quite small and then once its kind of dried off use light pressure. After this, use some wax to finally seal it.

It took me a while, but when I finished you can't see the scratches anymore. I was a bit skeptical at first but it did work. For the sake of a couple of quid from Halfords and some elbow grease its worth a go.

[uncler]

Originally Posted by NEEMSTAR

can i just ask how much it was, approx , please
looks great btw

Cheers!

Well, let's just say that you wouldn't be too far out at around the mid four hundred mark! Cost really does dependant on the condition of your vehicle though. As you can see from the pics, mine was in a pretty bad way so needed quite a few man hours!

[NEEMSTAR]

Originally Posted by uncler

Cheers!

Well, let's just say that you wouldn't be too far out at around the mid four hundred mark! Cost really does dependant on the condition of your vehicle though. As you can see from the pics, mine was in a pretty bad way so needed quite a few man hours!

cheers fella !