Ditec paint protection

[FWH]

Hi,

I am considering a protective coating on my new car (when it is delivered).

For example a Ditec treatment, which is available where I live.

The Danish web-site has an English language section:
http://www.ditec.dk


Any exeperiences would be interesting to hear about.

Also, how long should I wait before the paint "hardens".
I have heard everything from 3 weeks to 6 months.

[Stizo]

Im having same ideás?!?! But dont know if its worth the money??? Have you read some tests somewhere on the net or in some swedish magasines? I cant find anything????

[FWH]

No...

SP (independent testing company) have carried out a test, the results of which are available on Ditec website:
http://ditec.se/omoss/testresultat.php (in Swedish)

I have searched for info and believe to have found the following:

a) There are a LOT of different opions about Ditec / Tefcar / MrCap
(for example on a BMW forum)

b) It is important that the people doing the job know what they are doing

c) You can probably achieve similair results yourself, but it is a lot of work.

I plan to go for the treatment using Brotec (www.brotec.nu)

[Charles_Harding]

Originally Posted by Stizo

Im having same ideás?!?! But dont know if its worth the money??? Have you read some tests somewhere on the net or in some swedish magasines? I cant find anything????

I think if you look closely you'll find a lot in them Swedish magazines!

"If love is the answer, can I have another question?"

Charles H.

[FWH]

I have been quoted 4000 SEK for a 5 door Civic.
I am getting it done, will report back if I am happy with it or not.

[jalaman]

I'm also getting my done on september 3rd for 3720 NOK.

[FWH]

Originally Posted by jalaman

I'm also getting my done on september 3rd for 3720 NOK.

Getting mine done 4-5th Sept!
Have asked them not to put that ugly badge on the back of my car - was no problem.

They will also being replacing the number plate holder with a black one without any dealer-ad on. The plates come off for the treatment anyway.

[PJS]

FWIW, these treatments are only worth doing if you like giving your dealer money burning a hole in your pocket.
They all claim wonderful things, but also that you must use their top-up product each month to maintain the effectiveness of the wonderful coating put on your car.

Hello? Wax/sealant? Fortnightly? Protection done.
Slightly more effort on your behalf, but it'll save you lining the dealer's pockets with free money.

[FWH]

Originally Posted by PJS

FWIW, these treatments are only worth doing if you like giving your dealer money burning a hole in your pocket.
They all claim wonderful things, but also that you must use their top-up product each month to maintain the effectiveness of the wonderful coating put on your car.

Hello? Wax/sealant? Fortnightly? Protection done.
Slightly more effort on your behalf, but it'll save you lining the dealer's pockets with free money.

The Ditec system requires a 18 monthly revisit, not monthly.

From what I can read the Ditec system (which is not provided by Honda dealers) is slighlty more advanced (but not revolutionarily different) than the supaguard offered by UK dealers.

There are however a lot of different opinions about if it is value for money.

They rub the car down with clay and polishing it back up again before adding the paint sealant.

But I do fully agree it is a time / money choice, and I have made mine.

[PJS]

So they claim you just wash the car for 18 months and that's it?
Ask them for the test results - pictures after subjecting a piece of protected bare steel sample to ASTM B117-07.
To save you looking it up - it's a 24 hour, 30ºC salt spray test. Something car paint is subjected to, as well as the car manufacturer's anti-corrosion layer.
If after the 24 hour period, the protected sample is showing no signs of corrosion, then it works.
For 18 months equivalency, that'd require about 4 months of continuous testing - damn expensive, and I'd bet if they did and proved their product worked for that long before corrosion took hold, then it'd be VERY big news.

So, in that respect I don't agree with your conclusion that it's a time/money choice. You're deluding yourself that it'll work beyond a month or two at best.
If this stuff done what was claimed, the car manufacturers would be doing it at the factory and charging the extra on the retail price of the car.
All this serves is a get rich quick scheme for the dealer - sorry if you don't want to hear that, but it's fact, especially if you look at the other thread here in which I wrote the same thing. The other member revealed it costs £40 at trade price, and charged out at £250-350 (whatever the dealer can get away with) to the customer.

I'm not really concerned with whether you like your dealer enough or not to hand him extra profit for bugger all squared - just opening your eyes to the reality.
Same money could be spent on a local detailer (3 x 6 monthly visit) who'll take MUCH better care of your car's paint than the dealer staff will.
All you need to do is wash with a good shampoo and microfibre/lambswool mitt, and wax/sealant fortnightly to keep the car looking tip top.

[FWH]

Please do not appologise for this being something I do not want to hear.
I posted my question for this specific reason, so I very much appriciate any input.

The Honda paint is what it is and I would like to do whatever I can to improve things.

I am well aware of salt spray tests after having gone through the process of removing hexavalent chrome from manufacturing processes.

They do not have this documentation available and I doubt they have done such tests. What they do have is some (rather old) test results from an independent lab showing that the gloss-factor (or whatever it is really called) is kept better with their treatment over a period of several years compared to an untreated surface.
How much this is worth I really don´t know.

It is not a dealer who does the job, but a proffesional detailer.

They (and other detailers) also offer other services like, washing, polishing and waxing. This was something I was considering doing, and if the Ditec treatment is no good, I could well imagine going down that road instead as you suggest.

With the Ditec treatment they recommend manual cleaning with regular shampoo (or washing up liquid!) and high pressure washer followed by drying off with a rubber scraper thingy. You should not polish or wax, just remove any bird droppings quickly!

My plan is to revisit once a year (rather than 18 months which does sound like a stretch) for them to go over the car, fix any chips I have missed and shine it back up again. The cost for this is approx 30% of the original cost. A yearly deep-clean and machine-polish is something which I am sure will do the car good as it is hardly something I have time to do myself unfortunatly.

I have decieded that I´ll pay my money and see for myself if I think it is worth it.
The cost is around £300 and then around £100 for the annual revisit.

The "how long it lasts" after each treatment, does connect with that of course.
I am not yet at the stage where I would recommend this to anyone else.
That very much remains to be seen.
I will post my findings.

What I can add is that on other forums some people who have tried the Ditec treatment are so happy with it they have done it on several cars, others just find it a waste of money. But this also goes for Tefcar (PTFE based), MrCap and others.

The cost comparisson (40 / 350), does not include labour I presume?
You don´t get much labour for £40. Not in our part of the world anyway.

Car manufacturers want to cut cost and automise. A manual process like this is very much not in-line with mass production I would say. Again, that doesn´t mean it works.

If we take the Supaguard for example, which Honda UK dealers appear to offer, most people seem to agree it does little good.
So why do Honda let the dealers offer it? I think that is a good question.
That doesn´t mean I believe it works, I just think Honda should have more control of thier dealers.

[PJS]

Not keen on those silicone water blades for removing water - either microfibre towel or even a leaf blower, albeit a bit awkward.
In respect of 40/350 - it costs the dealer £40 (apparently) who then charge the customer (you) £250-350 for doing an hour's work. Most dealer labour is around the £70 per hour level.
So, quite a sizeable chunk of money as pure profit - which explains their keenness to push it when they can.

I agree with your comment about manufacturers automation and so forth, but if these products were worth their weight in gold, you can bet they'd ask the producers to formulate for a mechanised application.
They haven't done so thus far, which tells me it doesn't work for as long as claimed. And if the manufacturers did use it and it could be proven to fail to last as long as claimed, then you'd have disgruntled owners, etc. So that's probably another reason or a reason in itself not to bother with it, and leave it the owner's own decision to bother with it or not.

As for Supaguard and Honda dealers - I suppose Honda can't tell them what not to sell to their customers to make extra revenue from, so long as it doesn't affect the car or give Honda a bad name/image.
As SG doesn't affect the paint, then Honda have no qualms about it's dealers selling it to help make extra profits for themselves.

I'm also suspicious about not using any other product on top of this - once the product has been applied, it should be impervious to any other product save for a clay bar and strong cleaning solution/degreaser, designed to remove wax/silicone build up before repainting or cleaning the paintwork before applying a new protective coat of synthetic sealant or carnauba wax.

By all means feel free to be a guinea pig, but I would seriously ask the person doing it to do a sample of bare metal, then leave it sitting in the elements, or use the contacts you have for the salt spray test, and see if it comes out after 24 hours the same as it went in.
If it does, then it works better than Supaguard, but I'd almost guarantee it doesn't.



Not saying just yet whose product this is, but will do fairly soon.
It is THIS image that has made me more suspicious of the claims made by ALL other producers of wax/sealant products.

[FWH]

There is one differance here I think.

Supaguard is applied by the dealer and is an hours work.

The Ditec treatment is applied by a specialist detailer and is several hours work including polishing etc before the treatment.

The two bottles of stuff may well be the same and have as much or little effect, however I do believe that the ammount and quality of work involved in preparation and application will vary between a car dealer and a profesional detailer.

[PJS]

Irrespective of who applies it (and the dealers are trained on how to apply SG), the product itself will only last so long.
Like I said, if you want to test the product's claim, do as I've suggested above.
The worst that can happen is one of us is wrong about it and the best thing is that one of us is right about it, and your expenditure is worthwhile or better in your pocket than someone else's.
At least then you know the truth about the product before committing to spending on it in blind faith.

From the image above, the accelerated test indicates the products tested would be likely to last only for about a week, or less, depending on the weather conditions.
3-4 days of regular/heavy rain would see much the same result.

Surprising when you consider most detailers claim 2-3 months with a single waxing session using carnauba based waxes (Zymöl/Swissol), and 4-6 months on a premium sealant (Zaino/Klasse/Menzerna).

So, as you can hopefully appreciate by now, that's why I'm sceptical of the claims all the 'guard' type products make about longevity.
Lustre or glossiness or beading is not an indicator of how much protection any product is providing, but are used to wow the unsuspecting into thinking it must be.
Regular clean paintwork will bead just as well, as I found myself recently after claying my car for the first time since acquiring it.
The reflections and beading it showed immediately after and the following day when it rained proved to me, the claying done more of a cleaning job than any washing only had previously.

[FWH]

There is one differance here I think.

Supaguard is applied by the dealer and is an hours work.

The Ditec treatment is applied by a specialist detailer and is several hours work including polishing etc before the treatment.

The two bottles of stuff may well be the same and have as much or little effect, however I do believe that the ammount and quality of work involved in preparation and application will vary between a car dealer and a profesional detailer.

[PJS]

I read that reply first time round before replying myself - which was in response to what you'd said.
I repeat, no matter WHOM applies the product or the regime used prior to applying, (including bathing themselves or the car in ass's milk) the product will only have so much longevity.
Test it as per ASTM B117-07 and see first hand what the results are. If you're still not convinced, then spend the money and hope I'm wrong about its likely poor longevity.
If you've convinced yourself irrespective of hard facts, then no matter what I say or provide as proof of inaccurate longevity claims, you'll go ahead and have the process done.
Either way, I hope you get the results you expect and the money spent was worth it.

[FWH]

I think you are missing some of the point.
I was saying that regardless of the "sealant" working or not, you do get a good polish first.

I have contacted them asking about ASTM B117-07 test results, but my guess is they will not answer.

Although I am not disregarding your test result (and I am well aware of this method for corrosion testing surface treatments), I still see a differance between treating raw metal and subjecting it to warm salt spray and real life.

[PJS]

Ah, I see. Yes, a good polish definitely worth doing.
Bear in mind though, the test is an acceleration of natural effects.
Put the bare metal aspect out of your mind - that's only to facilitate seeing the effects easily.
My only slight issue is the temperature, but as I've said here (I think) and the other thread in General Discussions, if you can get a sample of the product and apply it to a piece of clean steel and leave it outside for a month, checking it daily, then you'll see whether it works or not.
If after a month, there's no sign of corrosion, then the product has some truth to its claims. If there are signs, then you know it doesn't last as long, and you've saved yourself the money, which can be spent on maintaining the car yourself, and a detailer every 6 months to remove any defects it picks up.

That is all I've tried to get across all along - don't believe the hype until you see first hand proof that it's not hype, but a remarkable product that "does exactly what it says on the tin".
How do you think Ronseal get away with using that slogan in their adverts?
Because they can prove they are genuine.

Remember, shiny doesn't equal protection, only shine. It's using those numbers to misdirect you into thinking they apply to a protection level.

[FWH]

My bare metal point is that there is a differance in bonding substance A (the sealant) to substance B (bare metal) and substance C (painted metal).

If a sealant is developed, the purpose of the product is to bond to paint, not untreated metal. Two rather differant surfaces.

Again, I am not saying that I have proof that any of these sealants work.

For followers of this discussion - a similair thread is here:
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/general...rotection.html

[PJS]

Not wishing to flog a dead horse any more than absolutely necessary, but whilst I appreciate you're line of thought, the reality is more simplistic - substrate surface is immaterial for the test to be a valid indicator of effectiveness.

If you liken it to velcro, then with the same force applied to the velcro strips, those that are smaller will come away, and those that are larger, will not.
So, each of the competing products are small velcro strips, the company's own product is a large/wider strip of velcro.
It takes more force to remove their velcro, where the word force can be substituted for longer timeframe.

Like I said above, you've made your mind up that you're doing it, no matter the evidence I produced, so I'll leave it at that and hope you're happy with the result.

For others still undecided, all I've done is given pause for thought and evidence that products tested may not be as wonderfully effective as they'd have you believe.
If you currently use them and like the results you get, then carry on as you are or change to the product I'll mention soon enough, if you see the evidence the way I do.