Electrics Start Button Design tis' a bit crap really - Page 2

Dimplyred · 16th May 2008, 14:29

Anyway, back to this button thingy!!!

I quite like mine, yes it is a pointless exercise and as you have to turn the key anyway, why not start it from the key, but I think it looks quite good.

If you start the car, how you should, with it out of gear and your foot on the clutch then there is no problem.

iamholam · 16th May 2008, 14:38

I do like having to press the button!

Although I do have some reservations on it. In my dad's renault espace with it's key card all you need to do is press the button briefly and it makes sure that the engine is started. With the Civic you have to hold the button down and wait for the engine to start properly before you let go.

Also it is an engine start and not also an engine "stop" button like in the espace. I suppose this has more to do with the fact you still need to get the civic into "ignition" mode turning the key.

Really what I am saying is that cars are designed differently but these are just observations i have!

angie4m · 16th May 2008, 14:41

I do like pushing my big red button.....gets me all excited but I then got into the M3 turned the key so far and then started looking for the button. Doh!

Kremmen · 16th May 2008, 14:45

HFT enhancement:

"Ignition On"

"Engine Start"

I'm dreaming

ljsanders · 16th May 2008, 14:59

Unfortunately guys and girls, I take your point that using the button is
just like turning the key and you shouldn't press when the car is in gear
particularly when the clutch is engaged.

However, using a car is a bit like using your computer. Users _DO_ do stupid things with them and when the user does do a stupid thing with it, the software and the computer shouldn't be designed such that consequences are bad.

I've lost count how many times I've had to fix a mates computer who's done stupid things with it and completely ballsed it up.

As a software engineer, myself, I'm always thinking how I can design my software to defend itself against stupid user actions, and I cannot see why
such a simple thing can't be done in a car too, because the consequences are bad in a car also.

In fact, I can't really see much of a reason why you'd ever want to start a car with it in gear when the clutch isn't pressed. So therefore I think it wouldn't be too hard to prevent it, rather like an automatic car does.

Pottsy · 16th May 2008, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljsanders

In fact, I can't really see much of a reason why you'd ever want to start a car with it in gear when the clutch isn't pressed. So therefore I think it wouldn't be too hard to prevent it, rather like an automatic car does.

There is a good reason to allow the starter to operate with the car in gear - and I have needed it once.

It was in an ancient Fiesta, that ran really badly. Occasionally it would cough and splutter and just conk out, and not re-start. One day it did this as I was turning right across a dual carriageway. I was left stranded in the middle of the road, with loads of cars now bearing down on me.

All I did was to use the starter motor (in first) to drive the car out of the way. To remove this form of auxiliary emergency power would be a mistake.

dave525 · 16th May 2008, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

There is a good reason to allow the starter to operate with the car in gear - and I have needed it once.

It was in an ancient Fiesta, that ran really badly. Occasionally it would cough and splutter and just conk out, and not re-start. One day it did this as I was turning right across a dual carriageway. I was left stranded in the middle of the road, with loads of cars now bearing down on me.

All I did was to use the starter motor (in first) to drive the car out of the way. To remove this form of auxiliary emergency power would be a mistake.

That is a very good point, I had to do that once myself many years ago

angie4m · 16th May 2008, 15:28

My pet hate on my Mums car is having to have your foot on the brake before you can fully turn the key to start the engine. Its an automatic and even when it park you still have to do it. Annoys the hell out of me, and has the worst handbrake in the world, fully engaged and it still reverses and pulls away with it on. I know why they make you put your foot on the brake to stop you moving off without realising it but there is no need for it on start up unless its in drive or reverse.

simon1 · 16th May 2008, 15:53

Many moons ago, my father bought a used car which the original owner had modified due to a fault with the ignition. He had redesigned it so that you turned the key to 'on' and then pushed a white button he had fitted next to the steering wheel to actually start the car. We thought it was kind of cool.

Oh, the car? It was mid 1970's Honda Civic!

angie4m · 16th May 2008, 15:59

BMW did a retro fit start button for the Mini, only thing that out me off it was I knew that it would go wrong as the electrics had a tendancy to do that. Bit like our cars, the one thing that will let them down (apart from paint, shocks and wherever other issues people may have) will be the electrics. Thats will be the death of cars today and it will be the death of them because it will cost so much to sort. Shame really.

jazzman · 16th May 2008, 16:02

It`s amazing what people find to moan about, me, i just like having a nice day with my beautiful spaceship

Dimplyred · 16th May 2008, 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljsanders

Unfortunately guys and girls, I take your point that using the button is
just like turning the key and you shouldn't press when the car is in gear
particularly when the clutch is engaged.

However, using a car is a bit like using your computer. Users _DO_ do stupid things with them and when the user does do a stupid thing with it, the software and the computer shouldn't be designed such that consequences are bad.

I've lost count how many times I've had to fix a mates computer who's done stupid things with it and completely ballsed it up.

As a software engineer, myself, I'm always thinking how I can design my software to defend itself against stupid user actions, and I cannot see why
such a simple thing can't be done in a car too, because the consequences are bad in a car also.

In fact, I can't really see much of a reason why you'd ever want to start a car with it in gear when the clutch isn't pressed. So therefore I think it wouldn't be too hard to prevent it, rather like an automatic car does.

I know what you mean, but it's deciding at what point enough is enough to make something idiot-proof.

Maldax · 16th May 2008, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

There is a good reason to allow the starter to operate with the car in gear - and I have needed it once.

It was in an ancient Fiesta, that ran really badly. Occasionally it would cough and splutter and just conk out, and not re-start. One day it did this as I was turning right across a dual carriageway. I was left stranded in the middle of the road, with loads of cars now bearing down on me.

All I did was to use the starter motor (in first) to drive the car out of the way. To remove this form of auxiliary emergency power would be a mistake.

Also handy for getting out of a flood if you dont make it on the engine with the starter motor (done that before)

But the i-shift has to be out out gear and foot on break before it will do anything

Rossman · 3rd June 2008, 12:28

Hopefully we'll be picking up our new baby on Saturday, I was wondering what the procedure is if you accidentally stall the engine (new car after all

).

Do you have to turn the key again or do you just push the little red button

Thanks in advance

dave525 · 3rd June 2008, 12:43

Just push the button

Rich 11 · 3rd June 2008, 12:57

Getting used to it now after a few days of wondering why it would start usingb the key lOl

angie4m · 3rd June 2008, 13:09

I am still being a diddy, had to take the M on Saturday late afternoon and I turn the key then STILL look for the start button! I really must stop this habit, its really annoying me now!

allan40alt · 3rd June 2008, 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by angie4m

I am still being a diddy, had to take the M on Saturday late afternoon and I turn the key then STILL look for the start button! I really must stop this habit, its really annoying me now!

...I call it 'The G-Spot'!

Rossman · 3rd June 2008, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave525

Just push the button

Cheers Dave

Woette · 3rd June 2008, 16:36

That damn button sold me the car, not the dealer

btw: the button rulez

, usually i can just just press the button and release it immediately for the engine to start, maybe 2 out of 10 times it wont start but that doesnt bother me.
I do remember my dealer telling me that when the car is in gear and u press the button without clutching, it wouldnt start, havent tried it though but apparently as i've just read, he lied to me

edit: or the poor man had no idea what he was talking about, lol

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This thread is about: Start Button Design tis' a bit crap really, it's in Electronics at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Anyway, back to this button thingy!!! I quite like mine, yes it is a pointless exercise and as you have to turn the key anyway, ...

16th May 2008, 14:29	#21 (permalink)
Dimplyred Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 24th August 2007 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 4,575 Thanks: 19 Thanked 128 Times in 127 Posts iTrader: (0)	Anyway, back to this button thingy!!! I quite like mine, yes it is a pointless exercise and as you have to turn the key anyway, why not start it from the key, but I think it looks quite good. If you start the car, how you should, with it out of gear and your foot on the clutch then there is no problem.

16th May 2008, 14:38	#22 (permalink)
iamholam Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 9th April 2008 Location: Livingston Posts: 202 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I do like having to press the button! Although I do have some reservations on it. In my dad's renault espace with it's key card all you need to do is press the button briefly and it makes sure that the engine is started. With the Civic you have to hold the button down and wait for the engine to start properly before you let go. Also it is an engine start and not also an engine "stop" button like in the espace. I suppose this has more to do with the fact you still need to get the civic into "ignition" mode turning the key. Really what I am saying is that cars are designed differently but these are just observations i have!

16th May 2008, 14:41	#23 (permalink)
angie4m Moved on Civinfo guru Join Date: 28th September 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,771 Thanks: 17 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts iTrader: (0)	I do like pushing my big red button.....gets me all excited but I then got into the M3 turned the key so far and then started looking for the button. Doh!

16th May 2008, 14:45	#24 (permalink)
Kremmen Krem de la Krem Civinfo guru Join Date: 7th January 2007 Location: West London Posts: 2,813 Thanks: 12 Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts iTrader: (0)	HFT enhancement: "Ignition On" "Engine Start" I'm dreaming

16th May 2008, 14:59	#25 (permalink)
ljsanders Supporter Valve Cap Join Date: 18th December 2007 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Unfortunately guys and girls, I take your point that using the button is just like turning the key and you shouldn't press when the car is in gear particularly when the clutch is engaged. However, using a car is a bit like using your computer. Users _DO_ do stupid things with them and when the user does do a stupid thing with it, the software and the computer shouldn't be designed such that consequences are bad. I've lost count how many times I've had to fix a mates computer who's done stupid things with it and completely ballsed it up. As a software engineer, myself, I'm always thinking how I can design my software to defend itself against stupid user actions, and I cannot see why such a simple thing can't be done in a car too, because the consequences are bad in a car also. In fact, I can't really see much of a reason why you'd ever want to start a car with it in gear when the clutch isn't pressed. So therefore I think it wouldn't be too hard to prevent it, rather like an automatic car does.

16th May 2008, 15:28	#28 (permalink)
angie4m Moved on Civinfo guru Join Date: 28th September 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,771 Thanks: 17 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts iTrader: (0)	My pet hate on my Mums car is having to have your foot on the brake before you can fully turn the key to start the engine. Its an automatic and even when it park you still have to do it. Annoys the hell out of me, and has the worst handbrake in the world, fully engaged and it still reverses and pulls away with it on. I know why they make you put your foot on the brake to stop you moving off without realising it but there is no need for it on start up unless its in drive or reverse.

16th May 2008, 15:53	#29 (permalink)
simon1 Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th December 2007 Location: UK Posts: 313 Thanks: 3 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader: (0)	Many moons ago, my father bought a used car which the original owner had modified due to a fault with the ignition. He had redesigned it so that you turned the key to 'on' and then pushed a white button he had fitted next to the steering wheel to actually start the car. We thought it was kind of cool. Oh, the car? It was mid 1970's Honda Civic!

16th May 2008, 15:59	#30 (permalink)
angie4m Moved on Civinfo guru Join Date: 28th September 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,771 Thanks: 17 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts iTrader: (0)	BMW did a retro fit start button for the Mini, only thing that out me off it was I knew that it would go wrong as the electrics had a tendancy to do that. Bit like our cars, the one thing that will let them down (apart from paint, shocks and wherever other issues people may have) will be the electrics. Thats will be the death of cars today and it will be the death of them because it will cost so much to sort. Shame really.

16th May 2008, 16:02	#31 (permalink)
jazzman Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 19th March 2007 Location: EASTBOURNE Posts: 753 Thanks: 1 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts iTrader: (0)	It`s amazing what people find to moan about, me, i just like having a nice day with my beautiful spaceship

3rd June 2008, 12:28	#34 (permalink)
Rossman Infidel Valve Cap Join Date: 1st June 2008 Location: West Sussex Posts: 45 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hopefully we'll be picking up our new baby on Saturday, I was wondering what the procedure is if you accidentally stall the engine (new car after all ). Do you have to turn the key again or do you just push the little red button Thanks in advance

3rd June 2008, 12:43	#35 (permalink)
dave525 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 22nd November 2007 Location: Portishead Posts: 358 Thanks: 17 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just push the button

3rd June 2008, 12:57	#36 (permalink)
Rich 11 TYPE R GT (R-15016) Rocketship door handle Join Date: 11th May 2008 Location: Kingston upon Hull (Red & White side), East Posts: 1,623 Thanks: 13 Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts iTrader: (0)	Getting used to it now after a few days of wondering why it would start usingb the key lOl

3rd June 2008, 13:09	#37 (permalink)
angie4m Moved on Civinfo guru Join Date: 28th September 2007 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,771 Thanks: 17 Thanked 32 Times in 32 Posts iTrader: (0)	I am still being a diddy, had to take the M on Saturday late afternoon and I turn the key then STILL look for the start button! I really must stop this habit, its really annoying me now!

3rd June 2008, 16:36	#40 (permalink)
Woette Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 7th October 2007 Location: Leuven, Belgium Posts: 323 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	That damn button sold me the car, not the dealer btw: the button rulez , usually i can just just press the button and release it immediately for the engine to start, maybe 2 out of 10 times it wont start but that doesnt bother me. I do remember my dealer telling me that when the car is in gear and u press the button without clutching, it wouldnt start, havent tried it though but apparently as i've just read, he lied to me edit: or the poor man had no idea what he was talking about, lol