Horn Warning - non factory fitted horn?

Bigian · 15th November 2006, 13:51

I asked the dealer to install a Stebel horn prior to picking the new car up a month ago. The car has performed great with no concerns and all the known problems reported by this site being corrected prior to pick up. I have used the horn during the last few weeks but today when I ‘Pipped’ a friend while braking. The ABS warning light came on followed by the VSA warning light I pulled in to a lay-by switched the engine off then found that I could not start the car. The AA came out and found that the horn / break lights circuit fuse had blown. As the model I have is the I-Shift with this fuse blown there is no signal to let the car know your foot is on the brake so it would not start. Once the fuse was replaced the car started and all warning lights where normal. Unless the Stebel horn has not been fitted correctly by the dealer, it looks like if you active the new horn along with the brake lights the circuit draws to much current for the standard fuse. It is going into the dealers tomorrow where a technician can decide on the right course of action. But for those with I-shift remember - if this fuse blows you cannot start the car. Still no idea why all the different warning lights started flashing? Will update ASAP.

Ancient Nerd · 15th November 2006, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigian

I asked the dealer to install a Stebel horn prior to picking the new car up a month ago. The car has performed great with no concerns and all the known problems reported by this site being corrected prior to pick up. I have used the horn during the last few weeks but today when I ‘Pipped’ a friend while braking. The ABS warning light came on followed by the VSA warning light I pulled in to a lay-by switched the engine off then found that I could not start the car. The AA came out and found that the horn / break lights circuit fuse had blown. As the model I have is the I-Shift with this fuse blown there is no signal to let the car know your foot is on the brake so it would not start. Once the fuse was replaced the car started and all warning lights where normal. Unless the Stebel horn has not been fitted correctly by the dealer, it looks like if you active the new horn along with the brake lights the circuit draws to much current for the standard fuse. It is going into the dealers tomorrow where a technician can decide on the right course of action. But for those with I-shift remember - if this fuse blows you cannot start the car. Still no idea why all the different warning lights started flashing? Will update ASAP.

Did your dealer fit a relay with the horn? It sounds as though the horn/brake circuit is overloaded.

Bigian · 16th November 2006, 10:33

That’s exactly what has happened, when I have used the horn in the past I was probably not activating the rear break lights at the same time so the fuse rating was OK. Last night I could not see where the horn was fitted and do not know if it was wired via the supplied relay. I will not use the horn again until the dealer has diagnosed the problem (probably the right fuse size) as the only spare fuse of the same rating was used to get me away, but I will give an update once the dealer has a look. The biggest mystery was that when the fuse blew the ABS and VSA lights came on. The rest I can understand. Thanks for the reply.

smiffy · 16th November 2006, 14:06

Well, both ABS and VSA use the brakes, so they probably have a feed to tell them when the brake pedal is being pressed. Since they're safety devices, they probably have a security check to make sure all is well.

Bigian · 16th November 2006, 15:21

Thanks Smiffy you are probably right, there is one thing for sure you cannot miss the warning symbols.

Tony Fendall · 16th November 2006, 22:42

I had the Steibel fitted and the same happened to me.
I thought a relay should be fitted, but my dealer advised there was already one in circuit.
He simply fitted a 30amp fuse for the 15amp and all is now well.
Just check with your dealer so he knows what you have done.
Hope this is OK for you.
Regards
Tony

WoolyCiv · 16th November 2006, 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Fendall

I had the Steibel fitted and the same happened to me.
I thought a relay should be fitted, but my dealer advised there was already one in circuit.
He simply fitted a 30amp fuse for the 15amp and all is now well.
Just check with your dealer so he knows what you have done.
Hope this is OK for you.
Regards
Tony

The 15 amp fuse (No 21) feeds both the horn and the stop lights. The horn takes about 9 amps whilst the two stop lights (the high level LED bar can be ignored) consume approx 2 amps each, total 13 amps. The same fuse also taps off to the engine management and MICU (not sure what it is) so the overall total current will be around or over 15 amps.

Ancient Nerd · 17th November 2006, 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Fendall

I had the Steibel fitted and the same happened to me.
I thought a relay should be fitted, but my dealer advised there was already one in circuit.
He simply fitted a 30amp fuse for the 15amp and all is now well.
Just check with your dealer so he knows what you have done.
Hope this is OK for you.
Regards
Tony

Fuses tend to have a rating for a purpose - to protect the wiring. I hope your dealer has confirmed that all wires connected to the downstream side of that fuse are rated at at least 30 amps. Otherwise there is the potential for a wiring burn-out in the event of a fault in any of the equipment.

Make sure you have it in writing (on an invoice or elsewhere) that it was the dealer that fitted the overrated fuse. You don't want Honda refusing to pay if you have a bonfire in the loom.

It also sounds as though you are being told a story about the relay. The only additional current should flow in the switched part of the relay. And that shouldn't be connected to your 15 (now 30) amp fuse.

Nick7 · 17th November 2006, 09:04

Replacing 15A fuse with 30A can be a bad idea - as Ancient Nerd already stated.
Proper way is to make new wiring for horn, and put a relay there (I know I did same when I installed air horn into my car due to higher current required).

WoolyCiv · 17th November 2006, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick7

Replacing 15A fuse with 30A can be a bad idea - as Ancient Nerd already stated.
Proper way is to make new wiring for horn, and put a relay there (I know I did same when I installed air horn into my car due to higher current required).

The horn is controlled via a relay but the coil and the contact are both fed from fuse 21. See below. Replacing the fuse with a 20 amp wold seem to be more sensible

Nick7 · 18th November 2006, 10:52

Is there any other fuse before '21'?

Bigian · 18th November 2006, 11:27

Service department not happy replacing the fuse with a one rated 30 amps and a relay is going to be fitted, thanks for all the advice (and diagrams).

Ian.

Ancient Nerd · 18th November 2006, 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigian

Service department not happy replacing the fuse with a one rated 30 amps and a relay is going to be fitted, thanks for all the advice (and diagrams).

Ian.

Your dealer looks like another one to avoid. Why didn't they do this to begin with?

IWANTACIVIC · 19th November 2006, 06:02

but at least they decide to change there minds inseted of fob him of by saying weve checked and everthing should be ok ?

Bigian · 19th November 2006, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Nerd

Your dealer looks like another one to avoid. Why didn't they do this to begin with?

They may have! when i called in there was a new service manager and he had a look, however it is fitted under the font skirt and I could not wait for them to remove it, one technician thought his collegue had fitted a relay (i did actually supply one with the horn) it is book in for a couple of weeks to suit me. I would recommed this dealer and i have had excellent service, cheers Ian

Ancient Nerd · 20th November 2006, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigian

I would recommed this dealer and i have had excellent service, cheers Ian

I'm glad to hear it. My apologies for grabbing the stick by the wrong end.

15th November 2006, 13:51	#1 (permalink)
Bigian Wheelnut Join Date: 19th June 2006 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Warning - non factory fitted horn? I asked the dealer to install a Stebel horn prior to picking the new car up a month ago. The car has performed great with no concerns and all the known problems reported by this site being corrected prior to pick up. I have used the horn during the last few weeks but today when I ‘Pipped’ a friend while braking. The ABS warning light came on followed by the VSA warning light I pulled in to a lay-by switched the engine off then found that I could not start the car. The AA came out and found that the horn / break lights circuit fuse had blown. As the model I have is the I-Shift with this fuse blown there is no signal to let the car know your foot is on the brake so it would not start. Once the fuse was replaced the car started and all warning lights where normal. Unless the Stebel horn has not been fitted correctly by the dealer, it looks like if you active the new horn along with the brake lights the circuit draws to much current for the standard fuse. It is going into the dealers tomorrow where a technician can decide on the right course of action. But for those with I-shift remember - if this fuse blows you cannot start the car. Still no idea why all the different warning lights started flashing? Will update ASAP.

16th November 2006, 22:42	#6 (permalink)
Tony Fendall Old enough to know better Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 12th August 2006 Location: Basingstoke Posts: 119 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Horn problem I had the Steibel fitted and the same happened to me. I thought a relay should be fitted, but my dealer advised there was already one in circuit. He simply fitted a 30amp fuse for the 15amp and all is now well. Just check with your dealer so he knows what you have done. Hope this is OK for you. Regards Tony

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This thread is about: Warning - non factory fitted horn?, it's in Electronics at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; I asked the dealer to install a Stebel horn prior to picking the new car up a month ago. The car has performed great with ...

16th November 2006, 10:33	#3 (permalink)
Bigian Wheelnut Join Date: 19th June 2006 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	That’s exactly what has happened, when I have used the horn in the past I was probably not activating the rear break lights at the same time so the fuse rating was OK. Last night I could not see where the horn was fitted and do not know if it was wired via the supplied relay. I will not use the horn again until the dealer has diagnosed the problem (probably the right fuse size) as the only spare fuse of the same rating was used to get me away, but I will give an update once the dealer has a look. The biggest mystery was that when the fuse blew the ABS and VSA lights came on. The rest I can understand. Thanks for the reply.

16th November 2006, 14:06	#4 (permalink)
smiffy Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 5th June 2006 Location: Buxton, UK Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Well, both ABS and VSA use the brakes, so they probably have a feed to tell them when the brake pedal is being pressed. Since they're safety devices, they probably have a security check to make sure all is well.

16th November 2006, 15:21	#5 (permalink)
Bigian Wheelnut Join Date: 19th June 2006 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Thanks Smiffy you are probably right, there is one thing for sure you cannot miss the warning symbols.

17th November 2006, 09:04	#9 (permalink)
Nick7 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 458 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Replacing 15A fuse with 30A can be a bad idea - as Ancient Nerd already stated. Proper way is to make new wiring for horn, and put a relay there (I know I did same when I installed air horn into my car due to higher current required).

18th November 2006, 10:52	#11 (permalink)
Nick7 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 458 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Is there any other fuse before '21'?

18th November 2006, 11:27	#12 (permalink)
Bigian Wheelnut Join Date: 19th June 2006 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Service department not happy replacing the fuse with a one rated 30 amps and a relay is going to be fitted, thanks for all the advice (and diagrams). Ian.

19th November 2006, 06:02	#14 (permalink)
IWANTACIVIC Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 16th September 2006 Location: LINCS UK Posts: 658 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	but at least they decide to change there minds inseted of fob him of by saying weve checked and everthing should be ok ?