Other Brake problem on my Golf.

karlak · 14th September 2006, 07:28

I know it is not a Civic (yet

) but, I have a problem with my Golf. Hopefully some techie type on here will be able to give an idea as to what is up. Anyway,

I had a notice that my 2 year old 2.0 GT Tdi needed the Brake fluid changing.

Got it booked in and the job done, but not too happy really.

I was always more than happy with the braking, but now the peddle feels soft. The symptoms are like there is air in the system, I have had it back to the dealers, who have re-bled the fluid, and then because I was still not happy, retested it and suggested a new master cyclinder. This has been swapped, but I still have a pedal that needs a further push than was required before the fluid change.

I have told them that in my opinion , and now my wifes who noticed the 'spongy' pedal before getting off our drive, that the brakes are still worse than Monday morning before they changed the fluid. I am now getting that look which implies I am some sort of looney. Theyreckon the car is in spec, but I felt they were not surprised to hear back from me.

The courtesy Golf that I was given, was just like my Golf used to be.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this on their MK5, or any ideas where the fault may be. The dealer is adamant that the braking is within tolerance, agreed the car will stop, but the distance the peddle now needs to be pressed has increased markedly, and is very disconcerting especially when in stop/start traffic.

Please help......

I have now noticed that there was brake fluid around the cap, and on top of the resevoir. Not loads, but there never the less. Cleaned it off re-tightened the cap, and went for a drive. When I got back, it looked like there was more fluid around that area. I am now thinking it may be a leaking Brake resevoir cap? Does anyone know of the resevoir is 'pressurised' i.e. if the cap was leaking would the system be less effective.

TTDegs · 14th September 2006, 09:53

can't really help all that much - except to answer the last bit

Which is 'yes' the whole system is pressurised I beleive.

LONG time tie I've bleed my own brakes, but I'm fairly sure that there should be a rubber seal inside the cap to help keep it (surprisingly) sealed.

If this is damaged, or the cap itself is, I guess it could well lead to the symptoms you describe

richierich · 14th September 2006, 10:46

If the reservoir is leaking when you apply the brakes instead of the fluid being pushed into the brakes the air/fluid will leak out of the cap instead.

On the picture below the master cylinder will more than likely have the reservoir on the top, when you press the brake pedal the master cyclinder tries to push liquid into the brake lines, if there is not enough liquid or the cap is loose all that will happen is that you will either squash the air in the sealed reservoir or out of the cap, when you release the pedal the air is sucked back in.

TTDegs · 14th September 2006, 12:11

yep - like wot RR said better than I did

karlak · 14th September 2006, 12:31

Cheers guys. I took it to another VW dealer today, who agreed that the pedal was not as 'solid' as it could be. However, the brakes would still pass a safety test.

So now it is a battle of wills between me and the original dealer. I know for a fact that the difference in before and after having the fluid changed is there. They now tell me that changing the fluid will make the brakes feel different, yeh no sh*t Sherlock, but surely not to make the pedal travel longer, and for a softer feel.

I am now being told that because my Golf is 2 years old (ancient hey

) , to expect the brakes ot be less efficient.

HondaHeaven · 14th September 2006, 22:12

Just read the problem, as an ex technician I can say that firstly, no the brake fluid reservoir is not pressurised, there must always be a vent hole on the cap otherwise when the brake pads wear down and the fluid level drops there would be nothing to replace the mass that has left the reservoir and this would cause a vaccum/ problems.

Sounds to me like the dealer have done a poor brake bleed and this as you say is giving you a soft pedal - must have been the 16 year old trainee on £5.50 an hour whilst the dealer charges you £85phr.

Hope you get sorted and can then get shut of the Golf (not that it's a bad car, just that it's not a civic)

TTDegs · 14th September 2006, 23:47

Heaven

cheers for that

If the rubber gasket is split / damaged, would there be enough pressure in the system (via the connections that let the reservoir feed / drain the main circuit) to force some fluid up and out through the vent hole?

EDIT:
But yes, agree that sounds like it's not been bled properly

Was just wondering about the fluid around the cap and if that could be not helping.

WoolyCiv · 14th September 2006, 23:58

Agree with HondaHeaven, sounds as if they have not bled the system properly. Most braking systems employ servo assistance, what would the effect of having an air leak on the servo have?

karlak · 15th September 2006, 07:28

Just as a quick update - Dealer1 have taken the car back in today. They reckon that the ABS system could be at fault

after speaking to VW technical. I am still sure that they have not bled it correctly as well, but as long as it comes back today as it was pre-fluid change, I shall be happy.

We shall then talk about the 120 miles and my time that I have incurred fixing the problem that they introduced.

Oh, and yes. If I get a good trade-in option on my Golf later today, then my Civic will be ordered next week

Trekker308 · 15th September 2006, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlak

Oh, and yes. If I get a good trade-in option on my Golf later today, then my Civic will be ordered next week

Hope it all works out fine karlak! Good Luck!

karlak · 16th September 2006, 07:47

How did I know it would end up like this ?

VW customer services have been invoked as of yesterday evening.

I got a call back from dealer yesterday to say that they have done all that is possible, but cannot get the pedal/brake back to the pre-fluid change fell. So, I have to live with how it is, I think not.... VW CS have now got all the details, but have told me that I will have to stick with dealer A as Dealer B did not start the job

I tried pointing out that they cannot 'in their opinion' do any more, and that dealer B still thinks it could be a fluid problem (Air/Moisture). I guess that I could pay for it to be done, and then if it is fixed, charge it back to VW. Could I do this ?

I will speak to the dealer principal this morning for his perspective on it. All I am now getting is 'yes, we understand that it feels diiferent, but it is still "safe" '. I am going to ask the dealer if I can go and update his computer system with a 2 yearly checkup, and if afterwards the system is 50% slower, then I am afraid that is just the way it is, but hey it still works doesn't it ??

14th September 2006, 07:28	#1 (permalink)
karlak Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 3rd June 2006 Posts: 432 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Brake problem on my Golf. I know it is not a Civic (yet ) but, I have a problem with my Golf. Hopefully some techie type on here will be able to give an idea as to what is up. Anyway, I had a notice that my 2 year old 2.0 GT Tdi needed the Brake fluid changing. Got it booked in and the job done, but not too happy really. I was always more than happy with the braking, but now the peddle feels soft. The symptoms are like there is air in the system, I have had it back to the dealers, who have re-bled the fluid, and then because I was still not happy, retested it and suggested a new master cyclinder. This has been swapped, but I still have a pedal that needs a further push than was required before the fluid change. I have told them that in my opinion , and now my wifes who noticed the 'spongy' pedal before getting off our drive, that the brakes are still worse than Monday morning before they changed the fluid. I am now getting that look which implies I am some sort of looney. Theyreckon the car is in spec, but I felt they were not surprised to hear back from me. The courtesy Golf that I was given, was just like my Golf used to be. Has anyone else experienced anything like this on their MK5, or any ideas where the fault may be. The dealer is adamant that the braking is within tolerance, agreed the car will stop, but the distance the peddle now needs to be pressed has increased markedly, and is very disconcerting especially when in stop/start traffic. Please help...... I have now noticed that there was brake fluid around the cap, and on top of the resevoir. Not loads, but there never the less. Cleaned it off re-tightened the cap, and went for a drive. When I got back, it looked like there was more fluid around that area. I am now thinking it may be a leaking Brake resevoir cap? Does anyone know of the resevoir is 'pressurised' i.e. if the cap was leaking would the system be less effective.

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This thread is about: Brake problem on my Golf., it's in Engines and Transmission at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; I know it is not a Civic (yet ) but, I have a problem with my Golf. Hopefully some techie type on here will be ...

14th September 2006, 09:53	#2 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	can't really help all that much - except to answer the last bit Which is 'yes' the whole system is pressurised I beleive. LONG time tie I've bleed my own brakes, but I'm fairly sure that there should be a rubber seal inside the cap to help keep it (surprisingly) sealed. If this is damaged, or the cap itself is, I guess it could well lead to the symptoms you describe

14th September 2006, 12:11	#4 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	yep - like wot RR said better than I did

14th September 2006, 12:31	#5 (permalink)
karlak Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 3rd June 2006 Posts: 432 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Cheers guys. I took it to another VW dealer today, who agreed that the pedal was not as 'solid' as it could be. However, the brakes would still pass a safety test. So now it is a battle of wills between me and the original dealer. I know for a fact that the difference in before and after having the fluid changed is there. They now tell me that changing the fluid will make the brakes feel different, yeh no sh*t Sherlock, but surely not to make the pedal travel longer, and for a softer feel. I am now being told that because my Golf is 2 years old (ancient hey ) , to expect the brakes ot be less efficient.

14th September 2006, 22:12	#6 (permalink)
HondaHeaven Supporter Valve Cap Join Date: 9th September 2006 Location: Sheffield Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just read the problem, as an ex technician I can say that firstly, no the brake fluid reservoir is not pressurised, there must always be a vent hole on the cap otherwise when the brake pads wear down and the fluid level drops there would be nothing to replace the mass that has left the reservoir and this would cause a vaccum/ problems. Sounds to me like the dealer have done a poor brake bleed and this as you say is giving you a soft pedal - must have been the 16 year old trainee on £5.50 an hour whilst the dealer charges you £85phr. Hope you get sorted and can then get shut of the Golf (not that it's a bad car, just that it's not a civic)

14th September 2006, 23:47	#7 (permalink)
TTDegs Super Moderator Civinfo master Join Date: 4th August 2006 Location: Cardiff Posts: 5,638 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Heaven cheers for that If the rubber gasket is split / damaged, would there be enough pressure in the system (via the connections that let the reservoir feed / drain the main circuit) to force some fluid up and out through the vent hole? EDIT: But yes, agree that sounds like it's not been bled properly Was just wondering about the fluid around the cap and if that could be not helping.

14th September 2006, 23:58	#8 (permalink)
WoolyCiv 12th June 2006 1.8EX Rocketship door handle Join Date: 28th May 2006 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,118 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Agree with HondaHeaven, sounds as if they have not bled the system properly. Most braking systems employ servo assistance, what would the effect of having an air leak on the servo have?

15th September 2006, 07:28	#9 (permalink)
karlak Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 3rd June 2006 Posts: 432 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just as a quick update - Dealer1 have taken the car back in today. They reckon that the ABS system could be at fault after speaking to VW technical. I am still sure that they have not bled it correctly as well, but as long as it comes back today as it was pre-fluid change, I shall be happy. We shall then talk about the 120 miles and my time that I have incurred fixing the problem that they introduced. Oh, and yes. If I get a good trade-in option on my Golf later today, then my Civic will be ordered next week

16th September 2006, 07:47	#11 (permalink)
karlak Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 3rd June 2006 Posts: 432 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	How did I know it would end up like this ? VW customer services have been invoked as of yesterday evening. I got a call back from dealer yesterday to say that they have done all that is possible, but cannot get the pedal/brake back to the pre-fluid change fell. So, I have to live with how it is, I think not.... VW CS have now got all the details, but have told me that I will have to stick with dealer A as Dealer B did not start the job I tried pointing out that they cannot 'in their opinion' do any more, and that dealer B still thinks it could be a fluid problem (Air/Moisture). I guess that I could pay for it to be done, and then if it is fixed, charge it back to VW. Could I do this ? I will speak to the dealer principal this morning for his perspective on it. All I am now getting is 'yes, we understand that it feels diiferent, but it is still "safe" '. I am going to ask the dealer if I can go and update his computer system with a 2 yearly checkup, and if afterwards the system is 50% slower, then I am afraid that is just the way it is, but hey it still works doesn't it ??