Faults Warm start problems! - Page 2

Palindrome · 7th April 2008, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co

Just spoke to honda!
Its a Glow Plug Relay that is to be changed and it is covered under warranty!
to me this would determine how long the glow plug stays on for and if the car requires the glow plug to come on depending on engine temperature!
this would mean if the car is warm the relay may tell the engine that the glow plugs are not required to come on hence a non start!
Does this sound logical??

"If they try to fob you off with "lets sort out the glow plug prob and see how it goes" tell them the glow plugs do not even operate when the engine is fully warmed up, if so I fail to see how this can effect the warm start, even if they were faulty in the respect that they are comming on whilst the engine is warm this would not make a difference to starting."

When the engine is warm the glow plugs have no part to play in starting, they are there to aid fuel combustion and reduce diesel knock on comperssion ignition when the engine is cold.

If they fail in any way it will result in very poor or non start when the engine is cold!

cnicolini · 7th April 2008, 14:12

I can recall reading about an issue with the Civic diesels where the glow plugs were staying on all the time and causing them to burn themselves out.

"Voltage regulator and/or earthing fault can lead to glow plugs of 2.2i CDTi staying on and burning out. No low oil warning light on diesels which can use as much as a litre in 600 miles, so vital to check the oil regularly. "

Car review: Honda Civic UK (2006 - )

civik · 9th April 2008, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co

Hi,
I got car back from dealer on Friday saying I had contaminated fuel and its not a warranty issue

. The fuel was drained and a new fuel filter fitted to the tune of £200 of my hard earned cash.
I was asked to bring car back to dealer to have a glow plug change! I asked why and they told me it was an update that was required and was through warranty. This to me is what would cause poor starting rather than contaminated fuel surely?
I drove the car away and the next day the problem is back! Dont think it was fuel at all, as car ran perfectly it just wouldnt start - intermittently.
Once the update is done if that sorts out the fault i will be asking for my £200 back!
Has anyone heard of egr valve issues? I saw that some accords had this!

have you filled the car anywhere other than a filling station?have seen a couple of accords(same engine)with low mileage and running starting probs that have been filled at farms and hgv workshops.

kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co · 9th April 2008, 23:38

Dont think it is fuel related now as its been drained and fault still persists

.
Glow plug relay made no difference as per "Palindrome's" coments. I think youre suspicions are correct.
Im going to book it back into Honda in morning.
Il keep yous posted, and thanks for advice.

kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co · 16th April 2008, 12:12

Car in at Honda just now, they are looking at it under warranty at moment.
They have ordered a new No3 injector as there was little fuel coming from it????
My car returns 45mpg as it always has and it doesent stall or chug etc it drives fine. It just struggles to start! Surely it cant be an injector as it would play up all the time not just on starting?
Maybe palindrome can help me sus this one out please??
Regards.

gray52 · 16th April 2008, 13:16

injectors should idealy be replaced in a set. i hope this clears it up, as i had a cold start problem on my last car and they never did sort it. the warrenty was up and i didnt want to write a blank cheque as no one knew what the problem was. i had 2 injectors replaced and made no difference what so ever. fingers crossed for you.

Palindrome · 16th April 2008, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co

Car in at Honda just now, they are looking at it under warranty at moment.
They have ordered a new No3 injector as there was little fuel coming from it????
My car returns 45mpg as it always has and it doesent stall or chug etc it drives fine. It just struggles to start! Surely it cant be an injector as it would play up all the time not just on starting?
Maybe palindrome can help me sus this one out please??
Regards.

Hiya,
Whilst the injector is operating normally ie being fed high pressure fuel via the pump you could drive around the world and back but when the engine is turned off the system(injectors) should hold a certain amount of pressure to ensure there is enough pressure to re start.
If a faulty injector is suspected this will internally "leak off" the fuel to the return system thus causing a loss of pressure and and extended cranking to start as it builds the pressure back up.

We saw this a lot in the dealer I used to work in and I think your dealer has found it now.

Let's hope it's just the one as I'm sure Honda will not let them change all four!
Cheers Chris.

kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co · 16th April 2008, 14:31

glad you have made sense of that as i was struggling to

I thought it was a regulator not holding pressure or fuel pump.
Here is hoping it is just one then!
they did say it was just the one that had little fuel coming through!
regards
Thanks for replies

pcr · 16th April 2008, 16:27

Still can't see how a single faulty injector could cause a warm start problem but is OK for a cold start.

kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co · 16th April 2008, 19:09

Started with not starting when warm then it struggled to start at anytime, sorry should have pointed that out!

Just got it back from honda they have replaced all 4 injectors

and its starting fine, they have ordered me a new starter motor too as mines was ready to pack in after umpteen extra attempts to start car.
All down to contaminated fuel- either some petrol or water etc in with diesel

. Who knows how it got there.
Thank God all thats over

Thanks Palindrome your advice has been spot on.

civicfan · 16th April 2008, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co

All down to contaminated fuel- either some petrol or water etc in with diesel

. Who knows how it got there.
Thank God all thats over

If it's down to contaminated fuel it may indeed return with your next visit to the fuel station

I know these problems quite well, since I used to live in Poland where fuel can be made of anything but petroleum at times... And this is why I can't quite believe the story. You would have to have a totally jammed fuel filter _before_ an injector can fail (apart from issues such as filling petrol instead of diesel etc.). And with a jammed filter you could simply not drive. I think it's been a faulty injector and therefore you are not likely to continue having the problem. Good luck

Palindrome · 16th April 2008, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co

Started with not starting when warm then it struggled to start at anytime, sorry should have pointed that out!

Just got it back from honda they have replaced all 4 injectors

and its starting fine, they have ordered me a new starter motor too as mines was ready to pack in after umpteen extra attempts to start car.
All down to contaminated fuel- either some petrol or water etc in with diesel

. Who knows how it got there.
Thank God all thats over

Thanks Palindrome your advice has been spot on.

Great news,keep me posted!

Still not convinced contaminated fuel was the problem but the injector/s is correct.
Did you get your money back???
Chris.

gray52 · 16th April 2008, 23:46

i still have all my fuel receipts from new, so BP will be getting the bill if this happens to me out of warrenty.

that would have cost you well over £1000, and looks like honda have looked after you, and i bet all new HP pipes were used as well, and a new starter, 1st class service to your main dealer and honda, buy that service manager a beer!!!

beggs · 16th April 2008, 23:59

I drive a Type R it has failed to start first go al least 50 times thought it was starter motor it is booked in with honda on the 28 They said that there has been a few were the fly wheel teeth dont line up properly and this stops it starting so they havet to drop gear box out which i am not trilled about on an 8 month old car

kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co · 20th April 2008, 11:54

Fuel filter was dirty and the water trap was full ! I had to pay for that part but injectors covered under warranty.
I am getting a new starter motor under warranty on tuesday.
Not going to complain about my £200 for cleaning out fuel lines and new filter etc.
If it was contamination it wasnt Honda's fault so i have to take some hit for it.

gray52 · 20th April 2008, 17:36

the question now is where do you get your diesel from?

9th April 2008, 23:38	#24 (permalink)
kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co Valve Cap Join Date: 26th January 2008 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Dont think it is fuel related now as its been drained and fault still persists. Glow plug relay made no difference as per "Palindrome's" coments. I think youre suspicions are correct. Im going to book it back into Honda in morning. Il keep yous posted, and thanks for advice.

16th April 2008, 19:09	#30 (permalink)
kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co Valve Cap Join Date: 26th January 2008 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Started with not starting when warm then it struggled to start at anytime, sorry should have pointed that out! Just got it back from honda they have replaced all 4 injectors and its starting fine, they have ordered me a new starter motor too as mines was ready to pack in after umpteen extra attempts to start car. All down to contaminated fuel- either some petrol or water etc in with diesel. Who knows how it got there. Thank God all thats over Thanks Palindrome your advice has been spot on.

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This thread is about: Warm start problems!, it's in Engines and Transmission at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Originally Posted by kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co Just spoke to honda! Its a Glow Plug Relay that is to be changed and it is covered under warranty! to ...

7th April 2008, 14:12	#22 (permalink)
cnicolini Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 15th August 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 587 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (0)	I can recall reading about an issue with the Civic diesels where the glow plugs were staying on all the time and causing them to burn themselves out. "Voltage regulator and/or earthing fault can lead to glow plugs of 2.2i CDTi staying on and burning out. No low oil warning light on diesels which can use as much as a litre in 600 miles, so vital to check the oil regularly. " Car review: Honda Civic UK (2006 - )

16th April 2008, 12:12	#25 (permalink)
kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co Valve Cap Join Date: 26th January 2008 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Car in at Honda just now, they are looking at it under warranty at moment. They have ordered a new No3 injector as there was little fuel coming from it???? My car returns 45mpg as it always has and it doesent stall or chug etc it drives fine. It just struggles to start! Surely it cant be an injector as it would play up all the time not just on starting? Maybe palindrome can help me sus this one out please?? Regards.

16th April 2008, 13:16	#26 (permalink)
gray52 Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 23rd November 2006 Location: peterborough Posts: 937 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (1)	injectors should idealy be replaced in a set. i hope this clears it up, as i had a cold start problem on my last car and they never did sort it. the warrenty was up and i didnt want to write a blank cheque as no one knew what the problem was. i had 2 injectors replaced and made no difference what so ever. fingers crossed for you.

16th April 2008, 14:31	#28 (permalink)
kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co Valve Cap Join Date: 26th January 2008 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	glad you have made sense of that as i was struggling to I thought it was a regulator not holding pressure or fuel pump. Here is hoping it is just one then! they did say it was just the one that had little fuel coming through! regards Thanks for replies

16th April 2008, 16:27	#29 (permalink)
pcr Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 5th September 2006 Location: Shropshire Posts: 848 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Still can't see how a single faulty injector could cause a warm start problem but is OK for a cold start.

16th April 2008, 23:46	#33 (permalink)
gray52 Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 23rd November 2006 Location: peterborough Posts: 937 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (1)	i still have all my fuel receipts from new, so BP will be getting the bill if this happens to me out of warrenty. that would have cost you well over £1000, and looks like honda have looked after you, and i bet all new HP pipes were used as well, and a new starter, 1st class service to your main dealer and honda, buy that service manager a beer!!!

16th April 2008, 23:59	#34 (permalink)
beggs Valve Cap Join Date: 1st February 2008 Location: n.ireland Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I drive a Type R it has failed to start first go al least 50 times thought it was starter motor it is booked in with honda on the 28 They said that there has been a few were the fly wheel teeth dont line up properly and this stops it starting so they havet to drop gear box out which i am not trilled about on an 8 month old car

20th April 2008, 11:54	#35 (permalink)
kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co Valve Cap Join Date: 26th January 2008 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Fuel filter was dirty and the water trap was full ! I had to pay for that part but injectors covered under warranty. I am getting a new starter motor under warranty on tuesday. Not going to complain about my £200 for cleaning out fuel lines and new filter etc. If it was contamination it wasnt Honda's fault so i have to take some hit for it.

20th April 2008, 17:36	#36 (permalink)
gray52 Supporter Magic Rear Seat Join Date: 23rd November 2006 Location: peterborough Posts: 937 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (1)	the question now is where do you get your diesel from?