Oil Genuine Honda Oil

Doubtingthomas · 10th July 2008, 14:24

I have been doing some research into the engine oil in my 1.8 ES i-shift. The car will be twelve months old late September when it will require an oil and filter change. Most Honda dealers around here tend to use a 10W-40 oil. Mine uses Castrol GTX, which is not what Castrol recommend, albeit Honda approve it.
The Wiki says the oil that is put in at the factory is Fuchs 0W-30. Honda UK tells me that Honda does produce its own 0W-30 fully synthetic oil,
and it can be ordered, for topping up in 1ltr containers, from Honda Parts Dept. part number "08232-P99-B1CB1".
I do not know whether this 0W-30 is the Fuchs oil the Wiki refers to, but it is put into brand new engines prior to leaving Swindon. The Wiki also refers to another Honda Oil but of a different grade.
I didn't know that one could obtain the original oil for topping up. I would have much preferred to use the same oil, certainly up to the first service.
May be this will be of assistance to some of you out there.

Pottsy · 10th July 2008, 14:42

I think Honda produce their own oil in the same way that they produce child seats (which also have a Honda part number, but if you look carefully you will see that they are made by Britax and are more expensive than the Britax original).

I would still recommend using the best fully synthetic oil that you can (so from a reputable manufacturer like Castrol or Mobil), with the lowest viscosity that Honda recommend (so 0W-30). Honda now strongly recommend 0W-30 for the diesel, though I haven't seen such a strong message for the petrol.

Doubtingthomas · 10th July 2008, 14:59

Thank you Pottsy.
My dilemma, and perhaps others who have opted for the 'Honda Happiness Service Scheme' is that I have prepaid for the oil that will be put into my Civic at the next service. At the moment that oil will be Castrol GTX, which is 10W-40. I would prefer to follow your advice and that of Castrol but it is going to be a load of hassle and additional expense to put in a better quality oil.

Pottsy · 10th July 2008, 15:11

Ah...

Can you phone other nearby dealers and ask what oil they would use on your car if you brought it in?

Personally I wouldn't put GTX in the mower, but then again it is also a Honda...

blader · 10th July 2008, 15:46

Spoke to the salesman yesterday who sold me the car. He said they have an agreement with an oil supplier (Total I think) but they might be looking at a deal with Castrol.

He told me 5w-40 fully synthetic oil for the diesel engine

Pottsy · 10th July 2008, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by blader

Spoke to the salesman yesterday who sold me the car. He said they have an agreement with an oil supplier (Total I think) but they might be looking at a deal with Castrol.

He told me 5w-40 fully synthetic oil for the diesel engine

Ask him to read his Honda service bulletins. Specifically HUK000000001165.

"Honda UK strongly recommends fully synthetic 0W-30."

And then pages on why, and what the advantages are.

Doubtingthomas · 10th July 2008, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Ah...

Can you phone other nearby dealers and ask what oil they would use on your car if you brought it in?

Personally I wouldn't put GTX in the mower, but then again it is also a Honda...

Pottsy,
Done that, thanks. It's either Castrol GTX (10W-40) or Q8 (10W-40). I had never heard of Q8!
Addendum:
I wouldn't mind betting that the vast majority of Honda Dealers put in the cheapest Honda Approved engine oil. I cannot see a dealer putting in a higher quality oil to be inclusive of a service charge. I think most dealers have a fixed price servicing system. It will be costed out very carefully. I think if you wanted a better quality oil you will have to pay extra and has been mentioned previously, on a different thread, I think, how do you know the better quality oil is in your Civic? Although perhaps not to our liking, the oil that goes in does meet certain, albeit perhaps the lowest criteria, that HUK specify.

blader · 10th July 2008, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Ask him to read his Honda service bulletins. Specifically HUK000000001165.

"Honda UK strongly recommends fully synthetic 0W-30."

And then pages on why, and what the advantages are.

Pottsy,

salesman mentioned the 0w-30, but also said it was a bit thin regards viscosity. Therefore, said 5w-40

I know b****r all about oil types and I'm in their hands with regards to advice. Do what the man says is my motto, although I will check further.

Pottsy · 10th July 2008, 18:41

The reason the dealer wants to sell you 5W-40 is that it is miles cheaper to buy than 0W-30. 0W-30 is not so much thin on viscosity (which in fact is exactly what you want in an oil), more so it is rather thin on profit.

But who would you rather believe, the specific and direct instructions of the manufacturer, or the advice of a salesman (who doesn't even work for Honda)?

Check also oil manufacturers websites, such as Castrol.

The reasons for using the correct oil are also in the wiki here.

Kremmen · 11th July 2008, 07:01

So only naturally the dealers will put in the cheapest oil they can. There is absolutely no way you can tell what they've actually put in.

They may quote Castrol, Mobil and the other reputable makes but they could be putting in Tesco Value for all you know.

You are in their hands on this one.

Jeroen1000 · 11th July 2008, 09:20

Pottsy, do they also recommend 0w-30 for the Type R? Or is it a diesel only thing

Pottsy · 11th July 2008, 10:41

The bulletin and recommendation is specifically for the diesel engines. But the logic has to apply to other vehicles too. Best fully synthetic you can buy with the lowest viscosity recommended by the manufacturer for your country.

R GT · 11th July 2008, 12:02

The type R reccommended oil is 0 w30 i have just got some amsoil series 2000 fully synthetic for £56 from opie oils online. as far as my research goes it is the very best oil on the market bar non just google it. also purchased a HAMP oil filter which is better the oem and still made by Honda for £10 so have the best money can buy for £66 rather than the £155 Honda wanted for an oil change and they used crap mobil so do the math. also if you go to ABP motorsport or other garage they will do the change for you for £20-£30 so quids in all round.

Kremmen · 11th July 2008, 12:08

£155 Honda wanted for an oil change

Wow

Jeroen1000 · 11th July 2008, 14:32

@ R GT. I have read they use 0w30 mainly because of co2 regulations and fuel efficiency. 5w40 would offer better protection?

I've also read that ,until the first service, they put 0w20 in the type r. Perhaps somone could confirm or elaborate on this?

(I will look for sources if you ask, I've googled a big part of the day and haven't bookmarked the websites)

Pottsy · 11th July 2008, 14:35

5w-40 offers poorer protection than 0w-30.

Never heard of any oil other than 0w-30 being used from the factory for the R.

Jeroen1000 · 11th July 2008, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsy

5w-40 offers poorer protection than 0w-30.

Never heard of any oil other than 0w-30 being used from the factory for the R.

Why would it? Doesn't the 40 imply the oil is thicker and would allow for less friction? Just my 2 cents

.
On the other hand I was fairly sure there is smth special in the factory oil as Honda refuse to swap it before the 7500km mark.

Pottsy · 11th July 2008, 14:49

No, the thickness (viscosity) and the lubricity are two different things.

A thick oil takes longer to flow round the engine on first start up, so more damage is done. A thin oil lubricates just as well and gives less friction (and gives more power and better efficiency and travels round the engine faster), but must not be too thin or else it never reaches the top of the engine in sufficient quantity. The new Honda engines are made with tolerances tight enough such that 0w-30 will always be reaching all bits at all temperatures.

To quote Honda:

"A 0w-30 lubricant reduces engine wear, improving engine protection by reaching and lubricating vital parts of the engine more quickly than other types of oil".

A Honda factory worker said of the factory fitted oil:

http://www.civinfo.com/forum/40291-post45.html

Jeroen1000 · 11th July 2008, 14:54

My brain is overloading

. I've found what looks like reliable info to support your (expert) opinion.
Take a look at Civic Type R Owners • Login

I do not know whether I can copy the contents of the post I have linked (which does not seem to work

)to but here goes:

it appears that Honda are using 10w-40 for running in.

After the run-in period, these are the oils/fluids you should use as per the Manufacturers recommendations.

Lubricant report for:
Honda, Civic 2001, Civic 2.0 16V Type R, (2.0 Typ R VTEC),2001-
Manufacturer: Honda Motor Co. Ltd., Tokyo, Japan
Drive type: f.w.d.
Cilinder capacity: 1998 cc
Power output: 200 HP/147 kW at 7400 rpm

Engine, petrol, 4-stroke, water cooled, 4 valves/cyl.
Capacity 4.50 liter
Filter capacity: 0.20 liter
Change every 20000 km or 12 months
Check daily

OEM recommendation
Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 0W-20
Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 0W-30
Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 0W-40
Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 5W-30
Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 5W-40

IF the oil would get too thin, you'd get metal to metal contact. If it's to thick, there is too much friction...I guess it is an endless discussion

Pottsy · 11th July 2008, 15:11

It may well be that Honda used (in 2004) a poorer oil for running in. In the old days this always used to be the case - you used a rubbish oil at first to encourage the piston rings to bed in quicker (by wearing out quicker). You also had to change your oil and filter sooner (typically 1,500 miles) to get rid of the running in oil (and the crud in the filter) before you put the good stuff in.

Nowadays the requirement for running in oil has vanished. There is some debate whether or not this is a cost/convenience measure, but either way it has gone, and putting crap oil in your car may not do your warranty any good.

There is always confusion between viscosity and lubricity. Lyles Golden Syrup is nice and viscous, but wouldn't do your engine much good. WD40 lubricates well, but you'd never be able to pump it up to the top of your engine as it would squirt out of all the bearings before it got there.

Also, in the past, we had mineral oils that would break down (the nice long molecules would snap) and the oil would turn into something that looked like paraffin. Oil pressure gauges were fitted for many reasons, but one was to spot the early signs of oil breakdown. Now we have synthetic oils and no oil gauges, but the oil now tends to fill with contaminants before it actually breaks.

HTH

10th July 2008, 14:24	#1 (permalink)
Doubtingthomas Honda aficionado Join Date: 14th August 2007 Location: Chorley, Lancashire Posts: 809 Thanks given: 23 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader: (0)	Genuine Honda Oil I have been doing some research into the engine oil in my 1.8 ES i-shift. The car will be twelve months old late September when it will require an oil and filter change. Most Honda dealers around here tend to use a 10W-40 oil. Mine uses Castrol GTX, which is not what Castrol recommend, albeit Honda approve it. The Wiki says the oil that is put in at the factory is Fuchs 0W-30. Honda UK tells me that Honda does produce its own 0W-30 fully synthetic oil, and it can be ordered, for topping up in 1ltr containers, from Honda Parts Dept. part number "08232-P99-B1CB1". I do not know whether this 0W-30 is the Fuchs oil the Wiki refers to, but it is put into brand new engines prior to leaving Swindon. The Wiki also refers to another Honda Oil but of a different grade. I didn't know that one could obtain the original oil for topping up. I would have much preferred to use the same oil, certainly up to the first service. May be this will be of assistance to some of you out there. Last edited by Doubtingthomas; 10th July 2008 at 14:26.

11th July 2008, 14:54	#19 (permalink)
Jeroen1000 Join Date: 30th December 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 337 Thanks given: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	My brain is overloading. I've found what looks like reliable info to support your (expert) opinion. Take a look at Civic Type R Owners • Login I do not know whether I can copy the contents of the post I have linked (which does not seem to work)to but here goes: it appears that Honda are using 10w-40 for running in. After the run-in period, these are the oils/fluids you should use as per the Manufacturers recommendations. Lubricant report for: Honda, Civic 2001, Civic 2.0 16V Type R, (2.0 Typ R VTEC),2001- Manufacturer: Honda Motor Co. Ltd., Tokyo, Japan Drive type: f.w.d. Cilinder capacity: 1998 cc Power output: 200 HP/147 kW at 7400 rpm Engine, petrol, 4-stroke, water cooled, 4 valves/cyl. Capacity 4.50 liter Filter capacity: 0.20 liter Change every 20000 km or 12 months Check daily OEM recommendation Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 0W-20 Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 0W-30 Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 0W-40 Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 5W-30 Year-round API: SJ-EC SAE 5W-40 IF the oil would get too thin, you'd get metal to metal contact. If it's to thick, there is too much friction...I guess it is an endless discussion Last edited by Jeroen1000; 11th July 2008 at 15:01.

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10th July 2008, 14:42	#2 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,342 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,274 Times in 776 Posts iTrader: (0)	I think Honda produce their own oil in the same way that they produce child seats (which also have a Honda part number, but if you look carefully you will see that they are made by Britax and are more expensive than the Britax original). I would still recommend using the best fully synthetic oil that you can (so from a reputable manufacturer like Castrol or Mobil), with the lowest viscosity that Honda recommend (so 0W-30). Honda now strongly recommend 0W-30 for the diesel, though I haven't seen such a strong message for the petrol.

10th July 2008, 14:59	#3 (permalink)
Doubtingthomas Honda aficionado Thread starter Join Date: 14th August 2007 Location: Chorley, Lancashire Posts: 809 Thanks given: 23 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader: (0)	Thank you Pottsy. My dilemma, and perhaps others who have opted for the 'Honda Happiness Service Scheme' is that I have prepaid for the oil that will be put into my Civic at the next service. At the moment that oil will be Castrol GTX, which is 10W-40. I would prefer to follow your advice and that of Castrol but it is going to be a load of hassle and additional expense to put in a better quality oil.

10th July 2008, 15:11	#4 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,342 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,274 Times in 776 Posts iTrader: (0)	Ah... Can you phone other nearby dealers and ask what oil they would use on your car if you brought it in? Personally I wouldn't put GTX in the mower, but then again it is also a Honda...

10th July 2008, 15:46	#5 (permalink)
blader Join Date: 24th May 2008 Location: Rotherham, UK Posts: 81 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Spoke to the salesman yesterday who sold me the car. He said they have an agreement with an oil supplier (Total I think) but they might be looking at a deal with Castrol. He told me 5w-40 fully synthetic oil for the diesel engine

10th July 2008, 18:41	#9 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,342 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,274 Times in 776 Posts iTrader: (0)	The reason the dealer wants to sell you 5W-40 is that it is miles cheaper to buy than 0W-30. 0W-30 is not so much thin on viscosity (which in fact is exactly what you want in an oil), more so it is rather thin on profit. But who would you rather believe, the specific and direct instructions of the manufacturer, or the advice of a salesman (who doesn't even work for Honda)? Check also oil manufacturers websites, such as Castrol. The reasons for using the correct oil are also in the wiki here.

11th July 2008, 07:01	#10 (permalink)
Kremmen Super Moderator Car: MY13 1.8 EX Auto Join Date: 7th January 2007 Location: West London Posts: 6,954 Thanks given: 186 Thanked 245 Times in 218 Posts iTrader: (0)	So only naturally the dealers will put in the cheapest oil they can. There is absolutely no way you can tell what they've actually put in. They may quote Castrol, Mobil and the other reputable makes but they could be putting in Tesco Value for all you know. You are in their hands on this one.

11th July 2008, 09:20	#11 (permalink)
Jeroen1000 Join Date: 30th December 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 337 Thanks given: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	Pottsy, do they also recommend 0w-30 for the Type R? Or is it a diesel only thing

11th July 2008, 10:41	#12 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,342 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,274 Times in 776 Posts iTrader: (0)	The bulletin and recommendation is specifically for the diesel engines. But the logic has to apply to other vehicles too. Best fully synthetic you can buy with the lowest viscosity recommended by the manufacturer for your country.

11th July 2008, 12:02	#13 (permalink)
R GT Supporter Join Date: 17th December 2007 Location: s yorks, uk Posts: 276 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts iTrader: (0)	The type R reccommended oil is 0 w30 i have just got some amsoil series 2000 fully synthetic for £56 from opie oils online. as far as my research goes it is the very best oil on the market bar non just google it. also purchased a HAMP oil filter which is better the oem and still made by Honda for £10 so have the best money can buy for £66 rather than the £155 Honda wanted for an oil change and they used crap mobil so do the math. also if you go to ABP motorsport or other garage they will do the change for you for £20-£30 so quids in all round.

11th July 2008, 12:08	#14 (permalink)
Kremmen Super Moderator Car: MY13 1.8 EX Auto Join Date: 7th January 2007 Location: West London Posts: 6,954 Thanks given: 186 Thanked 245 Times in 218 Posts iTrader: (0)	£155 Honda wanted for an oil change Wow

11th July 2008, 14:32	#15 (permalink)
Jeroen1000 Join Date: 30th December 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 337 Thanks given: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	@ R GT. I have read they use 0w30 mainly because of co2 regulations and fuel efficiency. 5w40 would offer better protection? I've also read that ,until the first service, they put 0w20 in the type r. Perhaps somone could confirm or elaborate on this? (I will look for sources if you ask, I've googled a big part of the day and haven't bookmarked the websites)

11th July 2008, 14:35	#16 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,342 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,274 Times in 776 Posts iTrader: (0)	5w-40 offers poorer protection than 0w-30. Never heard of any oil other than 0w-30 being used from the factory for the R.

11th July 2008, 14:49	#18 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,342 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,274 Times in 776 Posts iTrader: (0)	No, the thickness (viscosity) and the lubricity are two different things. A thick oil takes longer to flow round the engine on first start up, so more damage is done. A thin oil lubricates just as well and gives less friction (and gives more power and better efficiency and travels round the engine faster), but must not be too thin or else it never reaches the top of the engine in sufficient quantity. The new Honda engines are made with tolerances tight enough such that 0w-30 will always be reaching all bits at all temperatures. To quote Honda: "A 0w-30 lubricant reduces engine wear, improving engine protection by reaching and lubricating vital parts of the engine more quickly than other types of oil". A Honda factory worker said of the factory fitted oil: http://www.civinfo.com/forum/40291-post45.html

11th July 2008, 15:11	#20 (permalink)
Pottsy Administrator Car: Jag XF 3.0 Join Date: 10th April 2006 Location: Leics Posts: 12,342 Thanks given: 127 Thanked 2,274 Times in 776 Posts iTrader: (0)	It may well be that Honda used (in 2004) a poorer oil for running in. In the old days this always used to be the case - you used a rubbish oil at first to encourage the piston rings to bed in quicker (by wearing out quicker). You also had to change your oil and filter sooner (typically 1,500 miles) to get rid of the running in oil (and the crud in the filter) before you put the good stuff in. Nowadays the requirement for running in oil has vanished. There is some debate whether or not this is a cost/convenience measure, but either way it has gone, and putting crap oil in your car may not do your warranty any good. There is always confusion between viscosity and lubricity. Lyles Golden Syrup is nice and viscous, but wouldn't do your engine much good. WD40 lubricates well, but you'd never be able to pump it up to the top of your engine as it would squirt out of all the bearings before it got there. Also, in the past, we had mineral oils that would break down (the nice long molecules would snap) and the oil would turn into something that looked like paraffin. Oil pressure gauges were fitted for many reasons, but one was to spot the early signs of oil breakdown. Now we have synthetic oils and no oil gauges, but the oil now tends to fill with contaminants before it actually breaks. HTH