Faults Slight hesitation around the 2200 RPM

Dave Taylor · 10th October 2006, 19:54

Hi

My 1.8 SE seems to have a very slight hesitation point around 2200 RPM in 3rd & 4th. When accelerating.

Its difficult to explain is not really like a misfire but you now when you go along and the air-con kicks in, well it’s a bit like that. (I have driven with the air-con off)

Only 200 miles on the clock but noticed it as I drove it away. I know its going to be difficult to demonstrate as it’s very subtle but when you drive a car every day you notice these little things.

Any idea’s or suggestions.

Re Dave

Bungle · 10th October 2006, 20:05

With only 200 miles, I would just wait to see if it sorts itself out. The engine only really comes to life after a few thousand, so it might just need a little more time.

Hope it does go away!

basegreen · 10th October 2006, 22:21

Havent noticed that - but will try tomorrow.

Nick7 · 11th October 2006, 08:47

Could be VTEC

Bungle · 11th October 2006, 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick7

Could be VTEC

I don't think so, i-Vtec doesn't kick in to around 4500rpm, and there is just a 'boost', no hesitancy.

I have felt small hesitations during acceleration a couple of times, but I put it down to the traction control sensing a wheel loose traction on uneaven roads and killing the power or applying that brake for an instant.

BeeBee · 11th October 2006, 11:23

You'd know if it were the traction control. The light would come on.

Bungle · 11th October 2006, 11:31

I tend to look at the road while driving!

BeeBee · 11th October 2006, 12:07

It would catch your eye. Peripheral vision is very good at reacting to flashing lights.

The Great Soprendo · 11th October 2006, 13:01

May be unrelated but when I had a 2.2d for the weekend (I'm still waiting to own mine, unfortunately) I did notice a slight hesitancy in throttle response. I'd cruise along at normal speeds and then floor the throttle, and notice a slight delay (difficult to guess now, maybe 1/2 second?) before anything happened. My current Alfa 156 doesn't seem to have this characteristic, or if there is a delay it is much shorter.

smiffy · 11th October 2006, 13:09

Turbo lag.

Copycat · 11th October 2006, 13:51

Turbo lag + the odd millisecond from drive-by-wire perhaps?

Nick7 · 11th October 2006, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bungle

I don't think so, i-Vtec doesn't kick in to around 4500rpm, and there is just a 'boost', no hesitancy.

You're quite wrong here.
VTEC on R18A engine is similar to E-VTEC in 6th gen 1.5 engine.

VTEC on R18A alternates between two lobes - of which one is used to keep intake valve much longer open, to reduce pumping loses on light throttle.

What this means, VTEC has 2 stages, one is on low throttle, and 2nd is 'power' or actually 'normal' mode. To get to 2nd stage you need either to push throttle pedal more than some 50%, or at low throttle pass 3500rpm.

On attached picture is range of stage 1 and stage 2.

As you can see, this is quite different than on i-VTEC on K20 engine, or B16 or similar engines.

You can also check this link for some more info on R18 engine: http://paultan.org/archives/2006/03/...i-vtec-engine/

BeeBee · 11th October 2006, 14:38

That's interesting. So, basically, as long as you keep the pedal on the floor, you'll always be using the "power" mode, yes?

Nick7 · 11th October 2006, 14:59

Yes - which also means you cannot hear/feel VTEC kick in.. as there is no VTEC to kick in than.

skam · 14th October 2006, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copycat

Turbo lag + the odd millisecond from drive-by-wire perhaps?

i think that is the right answer...but Dave TAylor drivew a 1.8 petrol so no turbo installed. The drive by wire delay is a common problem (especially to VAG GROUP Cars) so it may have something to do with it. Search the aftermarket for the solution with that but i don't know if it worth the money. Havee anyone tried this stuff for the drive by wire delay...let us know

basegreen · 14th October 2006, 21:29

when idle and in neutral -- stab the gas pedal and note the dbw lag

Dave Taylor · 15th October 2006, 10:46

Hi

A bit more info on my problem, it seems that it only does it after I just pull away (i.e. after the engine has idled).

I pull away go up through the gears and when I go from 3rd to 4th at 2200 RPM a slight hesitation, if I then go past that point and the drop dowm to say 1500 RPM and the accelerate through 2200 it does not do it.

It only does it again after I have come to a halt and then pull away go up through the gears and from 3rd to 4th?

Re Dave

basegreen · 15th October 2006, 14:32

I tried this earlier, no hesitation, but wasnt from idle, so will try again.

Blue Max · 18th October 2006, 20:24

My experience in my 1.8 iVTEC is very like the subject of this thread but a whole lot more pronounced. In my case as I ease the peddle back the power will suddenly disappear altogether before the end stop is reached. When accelerating again nothing happens for the first few mm of peddle travel until a certain point when the power suddenly comes on with a bump. This makes for a very uncomfortable driving experience especially in first gear and when the revs are anywhere above 1500. I have done 7000 miles and it has been like this since new. My garage says all Civics do it and it’s because it’s drive by wire. Honda Technical are said to have agreed with this. Am I being spun a line? Do all Civics do this? Any inputs appreciated.

basegreen · 18th October 2006, 20:50

I think this is due to driving style making the DBW system "adapt" in an unusual way. This is not a criticism of driving style, just something different that makes it like this. Have you driven a demo car with similar mileage or less? Does that car do it? If not - there's a problem. First is very aggressive and can be uncomfortable if you are not careful with the pedal travel. Try a different foot position.

10th October 2006, 19:54	#1 (permalink)
Dave Taylor Wheelnut Join Date: 5th September 2006 Posts: 54 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Slight hesitation around the 2200 RPM Hi My 1.8 SE seems to have a very slight hesitation point around 2200 RPM in 3rd & 4th. When accelerating. Its difficult to explain is not really like a misfire but you now when you go along and the air-con kicks in, well it’s a bit like that. (I have driven with the air-con off) Only 200 miles on the clock but noticed it as I drove it away. I know its going to be difficult to demonstrate as it’s very subtle but when you drive a car every day you notice these little things. Any idea’s or suggestions. Re Dave

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This thread is about: Slight hesitation around the 2200 RPM, it's in Engines and Transmission at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Hi My 1.8 SE seems to have a very slight hesitation point around 2200 RPM in 3rd & 4th. When accelerating. Its difficult to explain ...

10th October 2006, 20:05	#2 (permalink)
Bungle Rocketship door handle Join Date: 3rd July 2006 Location: SE London/Kent Posts: 1,217 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	With only 200 miles, I would just wait to see if it sorts itself out. The engine only really comes to life after a few thousand, so it might just need a little more time. Hope it does go away!

10th October 2006, 22:21	#3 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,869 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Havent noticed that - but will try tomorrow.

11th October 2006, 08:47	#4 (permalink)
Nick7 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 449 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Could be VTEC

11th October 2006, 11:23	#6 (permalink)
BeeBee Wheelnut Join Date: 5th October 2006 Posts: 52 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You'd know if it were the traction control. The light would come on.

11th October 2006, 11:31	#7 (permalink)
Bungle Rocketship door handle Join Date: 3rd July 2006 Location: SE London/Kent Posts: 1,217 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I tend to look at the road while driving!

11th October 2006, 12:07	#8 (permalink)
BeeBee Wheelnut Join Date: 5th October 2006 Posts: 52 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It would catch your eye. Peripheral vision is very good at reacting to flashing lights.

11th October 2006, 13:01	#9 (permalink)
The Great Soprendo Wheelnut Join Date: 20th July 2006 Location: Location, Location Posts: 63 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	May be unrelated but when I had a 2.2d for the weekend (I'm still waiting to own mine, unfortunately) I did notice a slight hesitancy in throttle response. I'd cruise along at normal speeds and then floor the throttle, and notice a slight delay (difficult to guess now, maybe 1/2 second?) before anything happened. My current Alfa 156 doesn't seem to have this characteristic, or if there is a delay it is much shorter.

11th October 2006, 13:09	#10 (permalink)
smiffy Locking Wheelnut Join Date: 5th June 2006 Location: Buxton, UK Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Turbo lag.

11th October 2006, 13:51	#11 (permalink)
Copycat Galaxy class starship Rocketship door handle Join Date: 5th May 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 1,050 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Turbo lag + the odd millisecond from drive-by-wire perhaps?

11th October 2006, 14:38	#13 (permalink)
BeeBee Wheelnut Join Date: 5th October 2006 Posts: 52 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's interesting. So, basically, as long as you keep the pedal on the floor, you'll always be using the "power" mode, yes?

11th October 2006, 14:59	#14 (permalink)
Nick7 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 449 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yes - which also means you cannot hear/feel VTEC kick in.. as there is no VTEC to kick in than.

14th October 2006, 21:29	#16 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,869 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	when idle and in neutral -- stab the gas pedal and note the dbw lag

15th October 2006, 10:46	#17 (permalink)
Dave Taylor Wheelnut Join Date: 5th September 2006 Posts: 54 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi A bit more info on my problem, it seems that it only does it after I just pull away (i.e. after the engine has idled). I pull away go up through the gears and when I go from 3rd to 4th at 2200 RPM a slight hesitation, if I then go past that point and the drop dowm to say 1500 RPM and the accelerate through 2200 it does not do it. It only does it again after I have come to a halt and then pull away go up through the gears and from 3rd to 4th? Re Dave

15th October 2006, 14:32	#18 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,869 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I tried this earlier, no hesitation, but wasnt from idle, so will try again.

18th October 2006, 20:24	#19 (permalink)
Blue Max Valve Cap Join Date: 18th October 2006 Location: Berkshire, England Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My experience in my 1.8 iVTEC is very like the subject of this thread but a whole lot more pronounced. In my case as I ease the peddle back the power will suddenly disappear altogether before the end stop is reached. When accelerating again nothing happens for the first few mm of peddle travel until a certain point when the power suddenly comes on with a bump. This makes for a very uncomfortable driving experience especially in first gear and when the revs are anywhere above 1500. I have done 7000 miles and it has been like this since new. My garage says all Civics do it and it’s because it’s drive by wire. Honda Technical are said to have agreed with this. Am I being spun a line? Do all Civics do this? Any inputs appreciated.

18th October 2006, 20:50	#20 (permalink)
basegreen Super Moderator Civinfo guru Join Date: 15th April 2006 Location: noitacoL Posts: 2,869 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I think this is due to driving style making the DBW system "adapt" in an unusual way. This is not a criticism of driving style, just something different that makes it like this. Have you driven a demo car with similar mileage or less? Does that car do it? If not - there's a problem. First is very aggressive and can be uncomfortable if you are not careful with the pedal travel. Try a different foot position.