Choices Petrol or Diesel?

[Bungle]

So, my 1.8 i-VTEC is in the dealers getting a couple of things looked at (again), and I have been given a courtesy car. A 2.2 Diesel SE.

Now, I was excited when I found out I was getting a smoker, as I have not yet driven one of these. I was not happy that I had to pay £20 odd quid on my insurance for the priviledge, but that is another matter.

I have noted a few differences between the engines I would like to comment on.

The first thing is the noise. When I started it, I let out a snigger. It sounded exactly like my old work Transit. It shook like it too in idle! Then reversing out of the bay I noticed the the clutch is more 'snatchey' than mine. It is difficult to bring it up smoothly when moving slowly. This just might be the individual car, I am not sure.

On the way home, I felt the difference in torque. It is amazing. The petrol does not hang about, but the diesel just tries to snap your neck if you put your foot down. What I didn't like though is the looooong delay after putting your foot down.

Later, I had to fill up. I fogot how all diesel pumps seem to have a thick layer of the stuff all over the handle and joints. Got covered in the stuff. Then I remembered I always wore gloves when filling the van up!

I took the missus to Bluewater that evening, and after 1/2 hours driving we both felt sick. Not sure if it was the noticably softer suspension, of the constant virbating when the engine is idling, or what, but we both felt it.

Going to college this morning, I chocked poor mrs Bungle with fumes when I started up as she was waving me off. The engine also took about 10 minutes to warm up, which supprised me.

So after 2 days (and counting) I really feel I made the right choice with my petrol. I know the diesel is more torquey and more economical, but for me, I don't like the thumps of acceleration in each gear, I prefer the longer, more progressive acceleration of the petrol. And it sounds so much nicer being pushed! I have no doubt the diesel is quicker in some circumstances, but it is not to my taste.

I also noticed a sticker on the windscreen that reminds me to check oil regurlarly. Don't have one on my 1.8. Do diesels really use that much oil?

So, these are my findings. The diesel has advantages, as mentioned, but they do not suit me at all, nor mrs Bungle. It just re-assured me that I made the right decision with engine choice, and thought other petrol users out there might like to read this.

Comments welcome!

[basegreen]

I wholeheartedly agree with you . I am in the (unique?) position in that I have driven both the petrol and diesel versions for a couple of months.

What I do love about the diesel is the torque. It's great for overtaking, and getting out of trouble, but it is *almost* too much. CDs fly out of the cuuby hole, and it makes for a less comfortable ride.

Once I figured out how to drive the petrol, the pull is so incredibly smooth and at most of the rev range, that you come to prefer its refinement. This is backed up by the review on the 5th Gear website.

I think, given the choice, I might be happy to swap my petrol for an identical diesel (at no cost) but I wouldn't pay the £1.5K premium.

[Bungle]

I though all reviews had put the diesel on the top spot!

If prices were equal, or even the other way round, I still would have got the petrol. I can live without the torque, and I prefer the smoother engine and smoother acceleration of the VTEC.

Thanks for the comments, BG

[Bassa]

The answer is quite simple as is the case with most other makes.
High mileage folk = Diesel - All others = Petrol

Do believe Honda are missing a market by not offering a diesel auto.
Blimey, VAG have offered it for some time - and come on, even the Koreans do.

[jayt43]

No Bungle, I've read several reviews where they've said that the Civic's diesel installation is noisy compared to the Accord (although I'm sure still far quieter than most engines from rival manufacturers).

I think, often though, it boils down to a person's preconceptions about diesels. If you're like Clarkson then a diesel motor is basically the work of the devil, or to be more precise, something that has no rightful place being underneath a bonnet!

What I do know is that the diesel crowd here are very happy with the performance and smoothness of the 2.2. Like a good wine (Charles will back me up on this), it takes time to appreciate an engine and also the overall character of a car.

What is also true is that both petrol and diesel are innovative and efficient compared to the opposition (and I'm sure more reliable too). Moreover, Honda just carry on making their products more efficient, which is not only good for the consumer but will ultimately help bring about cuts in emissions in the future.

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by jayt43

No Bungle, I've read several reviews where they've said that the Civic's diesel installation is noisy compared to the Accord (although I'm sure still far quieter than most engines from rival manufacturers).

I imagine this is purley down to the confined spaces in the civic compared with the massive bonneted accord

I think, often though, it boils down to a person's preconceptions about diesels. If you're like Clarkson then a diesel motor is basically the work of the devil, or to be more precise, something that has no rightful place being underneath a bonnet!

No, diesels have a place- in lorries and busses! JC is an idiot. Full stop. I personally prefer petrol to diesel, but they are so different, it is just taste.

What I do know is that the diesel crowd here are very happy with the performance and smoothness of the 2.2. Like a good wine (Charles will back me up on this), it takes time to appreciate an engine and also the overall character of a car.

I know there is a big diesel crowd here, and they are all very happy with their cars (and engines). I know you didn't accuse me of such, but I was not diesel-bashing, I just posted my findings, and my feelings on it. Nothing more.

What is also is that both petrol and diesel are innovative and efficient compared to the opposition (and I'm sure more reliable too).. Moreover, Honda just carry on making their products more efficient, which is not only good for the consumer but will ultimately help bring about cuts in emissions in the future.

Both the engines are great, especially when compared with some of their rivals. It is difficult to find cars from other manufacturers wchich have similar peformance and economy in one engine.
Honda engines will get better and better, but fossil fuel engines are not the way forward. Honda's work on fuel cell technology is.

[jayt43]

Bungle,

Yep, it didn't even come into my mind that you were diesel bashing. Obviously, that's your experience of the 2.2 (and Mrs Bungle's too) and everyone should respect that. Besides, we all know why you're driving the diesel anyway

However, we'll quietly pretend you didn't say

No, diesels have a place - in lorries and busses!

as it may ruffle a few feathers on here

Totally agree with the FCT comment too. A viable commercial car based on such technology can't come soon enough.

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by jayt43

Bungle,

Yep, it didn't even come into my mind that you were diesel bashing. Obviously, that's your experience of the 2.2 (and Mrs Bungle's too) and everyone should respect that. Besides, we all know why you're driving the diesel anyway

However, we'll quietly pretend you didn't say as it may ruffle a few feathers on here

Totally agree with the FCT comment too. A viable commercial car based on such technology can't come soon enough.

The car is actually in for the recall on the petrol pump and for the creak in the rear suspension to be looked at, again. Have I just shot myslef in the foot??
The bodywork is not being done for ages, it looks as though it will not go in til 6/11 at the arliest

Was the after the lorry comment not enough??? Oh well, flame retardant suit on stand-by!

[jayt43]

I'm not saying a word Bungle...

[Charles_Harding]

And don't forget the fun of queuing up round the back of the fuel station with all those Polish Artics just to get the go juice.

Mind you with petrol I WOULD switch off my cell-phone!!!

"Ambition. a poor excuse for not being lazy"

[Pottsy]

Originally Posted by Bungle

I don't like the thumps of acceleration in each gear...

Comments welcome!

I actually bought the diesel because I like thumps of acceleration

I wonder how many miles it had on it? Mine was dog rough at idle for the first 500 - 1000 miles, and only really became silky smooth at about 5000 miles. The diesel will always be smoother when running than the petrol, since it has a second order balancer shaft (just like a Porsche 968) so maybe the rough idle was a function of low miles, or there was a fault.

IMO:
Petrol
+ Cheaper
+ Makes a nicer noise at high revs, and at idle
+ No lag
- Low performance, especially mid-range
- As smooth as a 4

Diesel
+ Huge performance, especially mid range
+ Frugal
+ Lovely turbo whistle
+ As smooth as a 6
- Clatter at idle
- More expensive to buy
- Narrow rev range, with some lag at low revs

Never seen any fumes on either car, apart from here, which I think has been fixed. But very glad you feel you made the right choice, there would be nothing worse than finding you preferred the diesel! Seems like sales are about 50/50, so it's a true case of horses for courses.

[Bungle]

The car has about 3.5k I think. It is really rough. I can feel my entire body shaking with it. Is this not normal?

I agree, the acceleration of the dieslel is good, especially for overtaking, I just prefer a smoother delivery, I think.

One particularly cold morning, I started my car (petrol) and left it running for a minute or two while I was playing with something. I stood a few feet back and had 2 lovely white clouds of vapour coming out of my triangles! I looked im my mirror when i drove off and saw clouds both sides of the car. It must have looked cool from the back! I love the smell of partially burnt petrol vapour in the morning

I did see a diesel on a motorway, and saw a small amount of black smoke on a gear change, but I think he was giving it some.

[Pottsy]

Vapour is normal on mornings where the dewpoint is the same as the temperature (on any engine). But the vibrations are not normal at all. Just been out to try and quantify it (11,000 miles and I go outside to see if it vibrates!) and at idle you can just feel something in the tip of the handbrake, but nothing if you touch a solid part of the car. As soon as it's above idle, then you cannot feel any vibes, however hard you feel around. Sounds like something was amiss to me.

[Hartside]

The car has about 3.5k I think. It is really rough. I can feel my entire body shaking with it. Is this not normal?

I agree, the acceleration of the diesel is good, especially for overtaking, I just prefer a smoother delivery, I think.

The roughness you mention is certainly not normal. Under acceleration my CTDi is as smooth as silk. The only time you can tell it's a diesel is at idle. I've had loads of passengers comment on its smoothness and are quite surpised when you tell them it's a diesel car. You are hard pushed to hear the engine at all when you are cruising. Power delivery is superb and it suits my style of driving. I reckon you must have had a dodgy one!

[basegreen]

Going from the diesel to the petrol was tough, the change in torque really felt strange. Having driven a diesel again, I sort of found myself wanting to go back to the Petrol again for most things apart from getting a spurt on.

It's a very very good engine, but for ME it wasn't worth the premium. I'd have probably gone up a trim level instead.

Never noticed any dodgy vibrations though, it must be said..

[Type S Bournemouth]

I know this is purely down to personal taste but for me I wouldnt own anything but the diesel. Not that the petrol version is bad or anything.

The diesel i test drove for 1hr was silky smooth, very quiet to the point you could only just make out it was a diesel and the performance was superb. Plus for me economy is a very big factor so the diesel wins hands down.

After test driving the petrol version i found it to be very flat in performance compared to the diesel and you had to work it to get it going.

But at the end of the day its down to how you like to drive etc.

At the end of the day there both good cars just both cater for slightly different driving styles.

I plan to keep my Civic for years and i cover alot of miles so the difference in price is not really a problem for me as over the years i will virtually make up the difference in fuel savings etc

[Gweneira]

I just love the feel of my diesel when I put my foot down. The torque is fab. My petrol civic owning chum ( not ~Sarahjo) likes to have a play in my car for this reason. Its all down to taste at the end of the day. I have a strong aversion to having to stop and fill up ( such a waste of time) so the diesel suits me just fine. Does sound like you had a dodgy one Bungle. Mine has 4.5k on the clock and is sweet!

[3rd Honda]

I have the diesel.

I can't agree over the smoothness/roughness - mine at 3500 miles is very smooth, a colleague who drives a 6 cyl BMW commenting on how smooth it was! As regards noise - at most speeds the (not well supressed) road noise is one of the Civics poorer aspects. Engine noise is not a problem.

The torque is great for overtaking, and personally I love this in normal driving. It makes the car feel fast and responsive. Turbo lag is very slight and if you are used to a turbo, this is one of the best there is!

I would agree over the warm up. Mainly due to the efficiency of the engine, the waste heat produced is quite limited, especially when lightly driven, and it does make all efficient diesels rather slow to warm up - unfortunate on a cold morning.

[TTDegs]

I love mine too

and, along with everyone else, little if any vibration

for me, it was a combinatin of factors:

1) it's a compnay car, so the monthly payment wasn't a whole shed load more - just £25
2) having owned a non-turbo, non (easily) tuneable TT for the last 2 years, and seen all my smaller engined but turbo'd mates adding lots of horses for little £, didn't want to make that mistake again
3) at 20-30K miles per year (even if a lot of that is company mileage), less petrol stops is a good thing!
4) having driven the 1.8 on a 48hr test drive, and taking the 2.2 for a quick spin, I instantly fell in love with the power delivery


I did like the 1.8, and it sounds great - just preferred the 2.2

[misterpro]

Originally Posted by Bungle

...but the diesel just tries to snap your neck if you put your foot down...

Exactly why I insisted on taking that one, even though I do way to little milage to justify it.

Snapping passengers necks ftw!