Oil Oil level getting higher

nighthawk_fn3 · 20th April 2009, 18:02

Hi,

around January I've had my 2nd service done and I was told there was at least 1l more oil in than they put in at the last service and I was told to watch it closely what happens next, now 3 month later. there was more than an half liter more again. they've drained it off and i was told its perfectly normal for a diesel engine with a dpf to do so? I am fuelling my car mostly with V-Power diesel. It's very hard for me to believe this, this is my eleventh car and I've never experienced somethig like this. Am I getting baked again? This doesn't feel right. Please, someone else experiencing this also?

cylon2007 · 20th April 2009, 18:27

so where exactly is the oil coming form???? sounds wrong to me

civicfan · 20th April 2009, 18:31

Probably this is the answer:
Rising Oil Level - Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com
Another possibility would be coolant getting into the oil, but then your engine would rather be dead I guess...

nighthawk_fn3 · 20th April 2009, 18:46

I've had this problem since i've got the car. I've broad it up 5 times since them, the first time they blame it on me puttin' to much oil in it(never put any in) the other times they told me it's normal. It's definetly fuel in the oil I'am sure. The honda mechanic told me it's because of the regen process, but this can't be right I'am doin' a lot of highway twice a day quiet pushin' the car so why shouldn't the car regenerate correctly?

nighthawk_fn3 · 21st April 2009, 08:44

Nobody else with DPF experienced this?

hgt · 21st April 2009, 10:02

I had a mini years ago that used to do this, the engine was so knackered that fuel was geting past the pistons and into the sump thus raising the oil level.
when I drained the oil it used to stink of petrol.
The only way the oil level can increase is either a coolant leak into the sump or fuel getting past the pistons due to a worn engine or cracked piston ring.
If I had this problem on a newish car I would get rid as soon as poss.

cb550 · 21st April 2009, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by hgt

I had a mini years ago that used to do this, the engine was so knackered that fuel was geting past the pistons and into the sump thus raising the oil level.
when I drained the oil it used to stink of petrol.
The only way the oil level can increase is either a coolant leak into the sump or fuel getting past the pistons due to a worn engine or cracked piston ring.
If I had this problem on a newish car I would get rid as soon as poss.

Have a compression test before getting rid! Water in the oil should be very easy to identify.The issue with the dpf regen. sounds significant.Motorway miles are good,but with the very high top gear,the engine is'nt working very hard.Perhaps now winter's out the way,the engine will run a little hotter?

nortones2 · 22nd April 2009, 09:46

The regeneration process uses an additional injection where the intention is to raise the DPF temperature to burn off the particles. It seems not all the fuel is kept out of the crankcase! Some examples of Mazda engines with rising oil levels, to a greater extent it seems: see Honest John for the details. Fuel into the crankcase doesn't sound healthy, but perhaps more frequent OCI would mitigate.

Gel · 22nd April 2009, 10:16

It shouldn't be too detrimental to your engine providing you do regular oil changes.

Diesel is an oil itself after all.

nighthawk_fn3 · 22nd April 2009, 10:57

I've booked an compression check on next monday and will have my car completly checked by the moto, cause I do not trust the stealers. Paid 600 € for the service, was told every thing was ok but the lights were disconected. Tryed 3 diffent stealers(there aren't more), everywhere the same. I will report. the Honda guy tried to blame it on my driving skills(same thing on the clutch first). Sorry I thought the type S was made do be driven as a sport car, not like grandma's van.(drivin' hard but not abusin').

But obviously as nobody else with DPF is experiencing the same problem, I prepare myself for a damaged engine. And probably more...

Never thought my Honda experience would turn out like this. (feelin now like owning an Opel) Feeling no longer angry but sad

dave87 · 22nd April 2009, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by nighthawk_fn3

Nobody else with DPF experienced this?

UK Civics don't feature a DPF, only the new iDTEC in the Accord, so not many UK owners will have experienced such a phenomenon

nighthawk_fn3 · 22nd April 2009, 11:07

I've had my oil changed every 6 month, my car is only 18 month old. Sorry but I am not gettin my oil changed every second month, I am not willing to pay for that - they are demanding around 300 € for an oil change. I've tried to part from my civic but after the motor club publishing the bug report here in Austria and civic being the second worst car nobody's willing to buy my car.

nighthawk_fn3 · 22nd April 2009, 11:10

I know that. But there aren't only UK owners on this board. If it's normal like the Honda Austria guy says, somebody else must have experienced this. Or am I the only one here with an 2.2 i-CTDI with DPF here?

nighthawk_fn3 · 22nd April 2009, 11:15

You guys are the one and only reliable source of informations there's available for me. As sad that sounds(I mean I used to get excellent informations about my car previous cars from the sevice guys, but at Honda they weren't even able to tell me why the clutch had to be changed) that's the way it is and I am very thankfull for a knowledge source like this!!!

nortones2 · 22nd April 2009, 15:02

If the oil level gets high enough, turbulence in the crankcase may cause lubricating oil (and the diesel in it!) to get into the combustion chamber. The engine may have a runaway. If so it will run at maximum revs until the oil supply is depleted, or the conrods depart the engine(: HJ in the technical section has a couple of threads on Mazda engines that have blown. I have no personal knowledge though.

cb550 · 22nd April 2009, 16:27

Assuming all goes well with the compression test etc.if it were my car,I'd wait till the next scheduled oil change(if neccessary have the dealer remove excess sump oil at say 3 months if needed) and have 5-w40 engine oil preferrably filled to the mid point of the max/min level

nighthawk_fn3 · 27th April 2009, 09:49

Went to the auto club today to have my car checked, they weren't able(afraid) to perform the compression test on a diesel engine, but said this is normal with Mazda and Ford engines with DPF never heard Honda suffering the same. They've tested everything else - everything else seems to be ok. Now what?

nighthawk_fn3 · 27th April 2009, 15:25

called Honda Austria again, they booked the car in for next week inclusive an oil change for free, I'll report next week if somebody's interested.

nighthawk_fn3 · 4th May 2009, 14:33

They've changed the oil and handed me a DPF brochure, didn't expect anything else from Honda. Those "excellent workwers" reported it's a Honda genuine oil but, it a Castrol SLX 5W30 oil. Nobody could tell me whats was checked not even those Honda Austria guys. This is incompetence at it's best. Is at least the oil viscosity ok for my engine with DPF?

PJS · 5th May 2009, 01:11

The viscosity will depend on the actual oil, but a 30 weight oil is absolutely fine, although that's for the summer months.
You may need a 0W-30 oil for winter use, depending on the temperature drop overnight.
Chances are though, it'll not be -30ºC, which I'm guessing the pour point of the SLX will be lower than that by a few more degrees.
I might be more inclined to see if they have Edge Sport 0W-30 or 5W-30.

In relation to the oil level rising, make sure they ONLY fill to the midpoint of the min-max level on the dipstick, especially with the engine being cold.
I'm concerned that excess level will be adding extra pressure to the seals and filter pressure release valve, and getting past the piston rings in one or all cylinders, causing issues in the upper chamber, and even the valves.
Personally, I'd be asking for the head to be removed, so a visual check can be made on the upper cylinder walls, the valves, etc to see the state of them.

An additional litre of diesel potentially (don't believe it's coolant, as the temp gauge would reflect the lower amount of fluid for cooling, plus the oil would've turned into mayonnaise, although that's why I'd be wanting the head removed too, but a visual check of the coolant reservoir should indicate if coolant is low or not) is concerning due to the fact diesel being low sulphur, and a lower viscosity to engine oil, means various things as far as the oil's protective properties will be compromised, and possibly severely.
And since the same feeds the turbo, that's as equally concerning, as washing past the pistons to an area where it shouldn't be.

It's easy to get caught up with all this, and run away with all sorts of fanciful notions, but even so, I really wouldn't be happy with this at all.
The dealership whom supplied you with the car, should have a compression testing kit, so that should be one of their diagnostic tools to gauge whether you have a leak in one or more cylinders.

As for oil changes - a local independent garage, that is VAT registered, can do your changes with no resultant loss of warranty. EU rules make that the case, anything else is fear instilled to persuade you to keep you money with the franchised dealerships.

20th April 2009, 18:02	#1 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Oil level getting higher Hi, around January I've had my 2nd service done and I was told there was at least 1l more oil in than they put in at the last service and I was told to watch it closely what happens next, now 3 month later. there was more than an half liter more again. they've drained it off and i was told its perfectly normal for a diesel engine with a dpf to do so? I am fuelling my car mostly with V-Power diesel. It's very hard for me to believe this, this is my eleventh car and I've never experienced somethig like this. Am I getting baked again? This doesn't feel right. Please, someone else experiencing this also?

22nd April 2009, 11:07	#12 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I've had my oil changed every 6 month, my car is only 18 month old. Sorry but I am not gettin my oil changed every second month, I am not willing to pay for that - they are demanding around 300 € for an oil change. I've tried to part from my civic but after the motor club publishing the bug report here in Austria and civic being the second worst car nobody's willing to buy my car. Last edited by nighthawk_fn3; 22nd April 2009 at 11:10.

22nd April 2009, 11:15	#14 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	You guys are the one and only reliable source of informations there's available for me. As sad that sounds(I mean I used to get excellent informations about my car previous cars from the sevice guys, but at Honda they weren't even able to tell me why the clutch had to be changed) that's the way it is and I am very thankfull for a knowledge source like this!!! Last edited by nighthawk_fn3; 22nd April 2009 at 11:31.

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.civinfo.com/forum/engines-transmission/25841-oil-level-getting-higher.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date
My Honda!!!	This thread	Refback	13th December 2010 21:07
My Honda!!! - digital-car.co.uk	This thread	Refback	23rd September 2010 01:03
stocksy.co.uk - Cars - Diesel Particulte Filters (DPF) and Rising Oil Levels - The UK Government Demonstrates the Law of Unintended Consequences	This thread	Refback	15th June 2010 02:06

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20th April 2009, 18:27	#2 (permalink)
cylon2007 Join Date: 14th April 2007 Location: South Manchester/North Cheshire Posts: 712 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts iTrader: (0)	so where exactly is the oil coming form???? sounds wrong to me

20th April 2009, 18:31	#3 (permalink)
civicfan Supporter Join Date: 13th September 2007 Posts: 909 Thanks given: 19 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader: (0)	Probably this is the answer: Rising Oil Level - Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com Another possibility would be coolant getting into the oil, but then your engine would rather be dead I guess...

20th April 2009, 18:46	#4 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I've had this problem since i've got the car. I've broad it up 5 times since them, the first time they blame it on me puttin' to much oil in it(never put any in) the other times they told me it's normal. It's definetly fuel in the oil I'am sure. The honda mechanic told me it's because of the regen process, but this can't be right I'am doin' a lot of highway twice a day quiet pushin' the car so why shouldn't the car regenerate correctly?

21st April 2009, 08:44	#5 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Nobody else with DPF experienced this?

21st April 2009, 10:02	#6 (permalink)
hgt Supporter Join Date: 11th October 2007 Location: Holmes Chapel, Cheshire Posts: 131 Thanks given: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts iTrader: (0)	I had a mini years ago that used to do this, the engine was so knackered that fuel was geting past the pistons and into the sump thus raising the oil level. when I drained the oil it used to stink of petrol. The only way the oil level can increase is either a coolant leak into the sump or fuel getting past the pistons due to a worn engine or cracked piston ring. If I had this problem on a newish car I would get rid as soon as poss.

22nd April 2009, 09:46	#8 (permalink)
nortones2 Car: 2003 Type S 2.0 Silver Join Date: 12th May 2007 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 105 Thanks given: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader: (0)	The regeneration process uses an additional injection where the intention is to raise the DPF temperature to burn off the particles. It seems not all the fuel is kept out of the crankcase! Some examples of Mazda engines with rising oil levels, to a greater extent it seems: see Honest John for the details. Fuel into the crankcase doesn't sound healthy, but perhaps more frequent OCI would mitigate.

22nd April 2009, 10:16	#9 (permalink)
Gel Supporter Join Date: 22nd January 2009 Location: Brighton Posts: 309 Thanks given: 5 Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts iTrader: (3)	It shouldn't be too detrimental to your engine providing you do regular oil changes. Diesel is an oil itself after all.

22nd April 2009, 10:57	#10 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I've booked an compression check on next monday and will have my car completly checked by the moto, cause I do not trust the stealers. Paid 600 € for the service, was told every thing was ok but the lights were disconected. Tryed 3 diffent stealers(there aren't more), everywhere the same. I will report. the Honda guy tried to blame it on my driving skills(same thing on the clutch first). Sorry I thought the type S was made do be driven as a sport car, not like grandma's van.(drivin' hard but not abusin'). But obviously as nobody else with DPF is experiencing the same problem, I prepare myself for a damaged engine. And probably more... Never thought my Honda experience would turn out like this. (feelin now like owning an Opel) Feeling no longer angry but sad

22nd April 2009, 11:10	#13 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	I know that. But there aren't only UK owners on this board. If it's normal like the Honda Austria guy says, somebody else must have experienced this. Or am I the only one here with an 2.2 i-CTDI with DPF here?

22nd April 2009, 15:02	#15 (permalink)
nortones2 Car: 2003 Type S 2.0 Silver Join Date: 12th May 2007 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 105 Thanks given: 7 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader: (0)	If the oil level gets high enough, turbulence in the crankcase may cause lubricating oil (and the diesel in it!) to get into the combustion chamber. The engine may have a runaway. If so it will run at maximum revs until the oil supply is depleted, or the conrods depart the engine(: HJ in the technical section has a couple of threads on Mazda engines that have blown. I have no personal knowledge though.

22nd April 2009, 16:27	#16 (permalink)
cb550 Supporter Join Date: 26th May 2007 Location: Nottingham Posts: 893 Thanks given: 55 Thanked 28 Times in 27 Posts iTrader: (1)	Assuming all goes well with the compression test etc.if it were my car,I'd wait till the next scheduled oil change(if neccessary have the dealer remove excess sump oil at say 3 months if needed) and have 5-w40 engine oil preferrably filled to the mid point of the max/min level

27th April 2009, 09:49	#17 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Went to the auto club today to have my car checked, they weren't able(afraid) to perform the compression test on a diesel engine, but said this is normal with Mazda and Ford engines with DPF never heard Honda suffering the same. They've tested everything else - everything else seems to be ok. Now what?

27th April 2009, 15:25	#18 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	called Honda Austria again, they booked the car in for next week inclusive an oil change for free, I'll report next week if somebody's interested.

4th May 2009, 14:33	#19 (permalink)
nighthawk_fn3 Thread starter Join Date: 11th September 2007 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 41 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	They've changed the oil and handed me a DPF brochure, didn't expect anything else from Honda. Those "excellent workwers" reported it's a Honda genuine oil but, it a Castrol SLX 5W30 oil. Nobody could tell me whats was checked not even those Honda Austria guys. This is incompetence at it's best. Is at least the oil viscosity ok for my engine with DPF?

5th May 2009, 01:11	#20 (permalink)
PJS Car: 2003 Accord 2.4 Executive Join Date: 27th May 2006 Location: Belfast Posts: 882 Thanks given: 0 Thanked 72 Times in 65 Posts iTrader: (2)	The viscosity will depend on the actual oil, but a 30 weight oil is absolutely fine, although that's for the summer months. You may need a 0W-30 oil for winter use, depending on the temperature drop overnight. Chances are though, it'll not be -30ºC, which I'm guessing the pour point of the SLX will be lower than that by a few more degrees. I might be more inclined to see if they have Edge Sport 0W-30 or 5W-30. In relation to the oil level rising, make sure they ONLY fill to the midpoint of the min-max level on the dipstick, especially with the engine being cold. I'm concerned that excess level will be adding extra pressure to the seals and filter pressure release valve, and getting past the piston rings in one or all cylinders, causing issues in the upper chamber, and even the valves. Personally, I'd be asking for the head to be removed, so a visual check can be made on the upper cylinder walls, the valves, etc to see the state of them. An additional litre of diesel potentially (don't believe it's coolant, as the temp gauge would reflect the lower amount of fluid for cooling, plus the oil would've turned into mayonnaise, although that's why I'd be wanting the head removed too, but a visual check of the coolant reservoir should indicate if coolant is low or not) is concerning due to the fact diesel being low sulphur, and a lower viscosity to engine oil, means various things as far as the oil's protective properties will be compromised, and possibly severely. And since the same feeds the turbo, that's as equally concerning, as washing past the pistons to an area where it shouldn't be. It's easy to get caught up with all this, and run away with all sorts of fanciful notions, but even so, I really wouldn't be happy with this at all. The dealership whom supplied you with the car, should have a compression testing kit, so that should be one of their diagnostic tools to gauge whether you have a leak in one or more cylinders. As for oil changes - a local independent garage, that is VAT registered, can do your changes with no resultant loss of warranty. EU rules make that the case, anything else is fear instilled to persuade you to keep you money with the franchised dealerships.