Other What does it mean? "Buzzing the engine"

SixPointSixSecs · 31st July 2009, 01:13

What exactly is mean't by the phrase buzzing the engine?

The following questions are what puzzles me, hopefully some of you nice folk can answer the questions below.

I first saw it on this post...
Help - 57 Plate Type R - Engine Failure

Also what about the limiter, does it not stop this from happening or does it not work the same when down shifting?

Is it possible to buzz the engine from just accelerating up the gears and going up into the red zone?

Is the limiter always on? I presume you can't switch it off without tampering with the ECU or something?

TypeRiter · 31st July 2009, 07:37

Buzzing usually occurs when one changes down to a gear that is too low for the speed the car is travelling at (and, the engine is spinning at) resulting in the the rev's exceeding the imposed limiter.

So for example.. If you are cruising at 70 mph in 6th gear doing approx 3,000 - 3,500rpm, but want to go faster, you could drop down to 3rd gear which would result in the revs spinning to about 6500pm (approx) and put you back in the vtec zone to provide the surge you were after... but if you by mistake, say, put the car into 2nd gear, it's possible that 70mph is just too much for 2nd gear to handle - which will cause the engine rpm's to spin above 8,000rpm (The limit in the Type-R). The forced, uncontrollable, spinning of the engine above 8,000rpms is what is referred to as buzzing. Because 70mph is too much for the 2nd gear to handle, the car effectively goes into a forced 'overdrive'

The redline, rev-limiter, can only limit revs on 'normal' acceleration, it is unable to limit the overdrive I spoke about.

Hitting the Redline is not particularly detrimental on normal acceleration (on the way up) - it is in place to prevent damage to the engine... but that said it would not be wise to hit the limiter in every gear, every day, for the duration of your ownership. It's in place for that over-enthusiastic, rev-hungry mistake, and can handle those mistakes.. but I wouldn't knowingly do it all the time.

As for the ECU, I don't think you can remove it or the limiter as such but there is a mod called Hondata, which has the ability to raise the rev-limiter, and broaden the v-tec zone. I believe with Hondata the vtec zone starts at 3,800rpm, as opposed to 5,400. Hondata pushes the limiter upto 8,600rpm from the standard 8,000rpm.

Hope that helps

SixPointSixSecs · 2nd August 2009, 16:54

Ah, very informative. Thanks very much.

Just hit the redline for the first time today on the way up the gears, I can see how easy it would be to do it (especially in 2nd gear since the acceleration is extremely rapid) and so will be shifting that bit earlier.

Hopefully I won't ever be unfortunate enough to make a gear change mistake such as you have described but I think if you were to sticking to the speed limits a gear change at 70 to 2nd gear would be extremely unlikely so the chances of doing this for me should be minimal. Of course this is based on the assumption that it would be impossbile to over rev on a down shift to any gear at anything below ~70mph (unless you could switch to 1st gear) which probably isn't entirely correct since 2nd only goes to ~50 mph?

Anyway I get the point and hope never to do it.

fmgtorres · 2nd August 2009, 20:49

Just one thing that it's not all that much relevant to your question, but I think it's fun to know these things: The redline is not the rev limiter. Some cars don't have rev limiter, some cars don't have redline, and some cars have the rev limiter as the redline. Usually the limiter is somewhere inside the redline. I've seen much debate about the consequences of taking the engine to both but I am yet to see a conclusion to the debate.

As for the downshifting mistake, don't worry, even if it happens you shouldn't be unfortunate enough to damage anything. Providing you don't make a habit of it :P
And if you do, I think the gearbox will give out before the engine.

Neily03 · 2nd August 2009, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmgtorres

As for the downshifting mistake, don't worry, even if it happens you shouldn't be unfortunate enough to damage anything. Providing you don't make a habit of it :P
And if you do, I think the gearbox will give out before the engine.

Stick yours in 1st at 80mph and the gearbox will the least of your worries.

fmgtorres · 2nd August 2009, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neily03

Stick yours in 1st at 80mph and the gearbox will the least of your worries.

You can't stick 1st at that speed unless you "really want to" (even then I'm not sure it's possible on a standard mechanism). When I said gearbox I probably mean transmission. I am not sure about the terms in english. But the engine should handle it.

SixPointSixSecs · 3rd August 2009, 17:23

So where does the limiter in the Type R kick in?

Where is this in relation to the Redline?

TypeRiter · 3rd August 2009, 17:42

Take it as limited to 8,000rpm on a stock CTR (Red-line)... I wouldn't really read into the limiter being slightily above ect.. Anyway, it's in the high 7,000's that you should really consider shifting up to maximise the acceleration, because 8,000ish will bring about the cut-out, which ruins the acceleration momentum..

Neily03 · 4th August 2009, 16:20

Rev limiter it at 8250rpm.

31st July 2009, 01:13	#1 (permalink)
SixPointSixSecs Car: 2009 Type R GT, Milano Red Join Date: 18th July 2009 Location: Belfast Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	What does it mean? "Buzzing the engine" What exactly is mean't by the phrase buzzing the engine? The following questions are what puzzles me, hopefully some of you nice folk can answer the questions below. I first saw it on this post... Help - 57 Plate Type R - Engine Failure Also what about the limiter, does it not stop this from happening or does it not work the same when down shifting? Is it possible to buzz the engine from just accelerating up the gears and going up into the red zone? Is the limiter always on? I presume you can't switch it off without tampering with the ECU or something?

31st July 2009, 07:37	#2 (permalink)
TypeRiter Sold a kidney last week! Car: Nighthawk Black EP3 Join Date: 27th May 2009 Location: Ealing Posts: 3,321 Thanks: 145 Thanked 169 Times in 166 Posts iTrader: (6)	Buzzing usually occurs when one changes down to a gear that is too low for the speed the car is travelling at (and, the engine is spinning at) resulting in the the rev's exceeding the imposed limiter. So for example.. If you are cruising at 70 mph in 6th gear doing approx 3,000 - 3,500rpm, but want to go faster, you could drop down to 3rd gear which would result in the revs spinning to about 6500pm (approx) and put you back in the vtec zone to provide the surge you were after... but if you by mistake, say, put the car into 2nd gear, it's possible that 70mph is just too much for 2nd gear to handle - which will cause the engine rpm's to spin above 8,000rpm (The limit in the Type-R). The forced, uncontrollable, spinning of the engine above 8,000rpms is what is referred to as buzzing. Because 70mph is too much for the 2nd gear to handle, the car effectively goes into a forced 'overdrive' The redline, rev-limiter, can only limit revs on 'normal' acceleration, it is unable to limit the overdrive I spoke about. Hitting the Redline is not particularly detrimental on normal acceleration (on the way up) - it is in place to prevent damage to the engine... but that said it would not be wise to hit the limiter in every gear, every day, for the duration of your ownership. It's in place for that over-enthusiastic, rev-hungry mistake, and can handle those mistakes.. but I wouldn't knowingly do it all the time. As for the ECU, I don't think you can remove it or the limiter as such but there is a mod called Hondata, which has the ability to raise the rev-limiter, and broaden the v-tec zone. I believe with Hondata the vtec zone starts at 3,800rpm, as opposed to 5,400. Hondata pushes the limiter upto 8,600rpm from the standard 8,000rpm. Hope that helps Last edited by TypeRiter; 31st July 2009 at 08:20.

2nd August 2009, 20:49	#4 (permalink)
fmgtorres Join Date: 19th March 2009 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 163 Thanks: 14 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just one thing that it's not all that much relevant to your question, but I think it's fun to know these things: The redline is not the rev limiter. Some cars don't have rev limiter, some cars don't have redline, and some cars have the rev limiter as the redline. Usually the limiter is somewhere inside the redline. I've seen much debate about the consequences of taking the engine to both but I am yet to see a conclusion to the debate. As for the downshifting mistake, don't worry, even if it happens you shouldn't be unfortunate enough to damage anything. Providing you don't make a habit of it :P And if you do, I think the gearbox will give out before the engine. Last edited by fmgtorres; 2nd August 2009 at 20:52.

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2nd August 2009, 16:54	#3 (permalink)
SixPointSixSecs Thread starter Car: 2009 Type R GT, Milano Red Join Date: 18th July 2009 Location: Belfast Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Ah, very informative. Thanks very much. Just hit the redline for the first time today on the way up the gears, I can see how easy it would be to do it (especially in 2nd gear since the acceleration is extremely rapid) and so will be shifting that bit earlier. Hopefully I won't ever be unfortunate enough to make a gear change mistake such as you have described but I think if you were to sticking to the speed limits a gear change at 70 to 2nd gear would be extremely unlikely so the chances of doing this for me should be minimal. Of course this is based on the assumption that it would be impossbile to over rev on a down shift to any gear at anything below ~70mph (unless you could switch to 1st gear) which probably isn't entirely correct since 2nd only goes to ~50 mph? Anyway I get the point and hope never to do it.

3rd August 2009, 17:23	#7 (permalink)
SixPointSixSecs Thread starter Car: 2009 Type R GT, Milano Red Join Date: 18th July 2009 Location: Belfast Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	So where does the limiter in the Type R kick in? Where is this in relation to the Redline?

3rd August 2009, 17:42	#8 (permalink)
TypeRiter Sold a kidney last week! Car: Nighthawk Black EP3 Join Date: 27th May 2009 Location: Ealing Posts: 3,321 Thanks: 145 Thanked 169 Times in 166 Posts iTrader: (6)	Take it as limited to 8,000rpm on a stock CTR (Red-line)... I wouldn't really read into the limiter being slightily above ect.. Anyway, it's in the high 7,000's that you should really consider shifting up to maximise the acceleration, because 8,000ish will bring about the cut-out, which ruins the acceleration momentum..

4th August 2009, 16:20	#9 (permalink)
Neily03 Banned Car: '08 CTR, Alabaster Silver. Join Date: 5th April 2009 Location: Frodsham, Cheshire Posts: 366 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts iTrader: (0)	Rev limiter it at 8250rpm.