Tuning Remap Very bhp torque on dyno??? - Civinfo

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post #1 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 17:38 Thread Starter
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Remap Very bhp torque on dyno???

(Sory stole the title from the post below lol)

Just came back from CT to have my stage 2 remap done,

Bit gutted really, said they could get me 204 bhpbut only running 17bhp, they said the map is fine but the car is just dropping. They said the BHP was low when it came in on standard. No error codes but recomedned me changing the Mass Air Sensor as this is most likely the issue.

Any Ideas?




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post #2 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 17:51
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It could be the MAF but they're not usually a problem on 2.2's.

Is the fuel filter a pukka Honda item and when was it was changed?

I wonder if your injectors are working well, a bleed kit can be sourced cheaply and can give an indication of injector health.

Does your car burn oil?

Smoke under powah?

What air filter are you using and when was it last changed?

Is your clutch okay and not slipping?
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post #3 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 18:00 Thread Starter
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Ill pick up a new MAF and Air Filter. (local garage serviced car so dont know if they used OEM or crap parts).

Not that I know it doesnt burn oil, no smoke (only on cold startup)

Better not be the clutch only had it change 3 weeks ago from TDI, but seems fine in all honeslty.

Whats this thingy about injectors and bleeding lol?
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post #4 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 18:04
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On that case defo ensure you are using genuine Honda fuel and air filters.

Do you know when the fuel filter was last changed?

Injectors take quote a hammering and can bleed fuel back to the tank if they aren't working properly. Essentially your cylinder isn't get the correct fueling.

The ECU is great at compensating, within reason but any excess wear will adversely affect performance.

Check YouTube for some neat vids showing how to do a leak back test.

I presume your car passed the MOT without any excessive smoke results? E.g. did it pass on the first test? Or need recessive tests to clean up?
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post #5 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 18:05
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Another thing to check is any split hoses from the turbo to IC and up to the inlet manifold.
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post #6 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 18:14
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post #7 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 18:24 Thread Starter
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Fuel filter would of been last year on the big service, Just a rechange looks easy for both and can get parts quickly.

The leek test looks quite easy to do will have to give that a go, if the injectors are a problem how easy is it to fix / change?.

MOT looked fine, they did say the it was an error code for the egr value and run some fuel treatment which resolve it and no more error codes.

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post #8 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 18:27
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Maybe the map is crap? Looks like it. Car running standard power pre remap.
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post #9 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 18:35 Thread Starter
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It was done by celtic tuning thought it was ok?
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post #10 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 19:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamsnake View Post
It was done by celtic tuning thought it was ok?
Can't see there being anything wrong with the map, surely they use the same (unless full RR tune) stage 2 for every car....... Some make full power, some go over, some go under.

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post #11 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 20:10 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KnightTemplar View Post
Can't see there being anything wrong with the map, surely they use the same (unless full RR tune) stage 2 for every car....... Some make full power, some go over, some go under.

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Yeah maybe, gutted really as only had the cluch changed for a stage 2 remap, stage 1 with them was 193 bhp and 292 lb.ft would of been a hell of a lot cheaper.

Hopefully its one of these things!, i guess it not going to end of the world if not just bumed lol
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post #12 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 20:20
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Your pretty much in the same boat as me mate, you seen my thread? I had s similar experience today.

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post #13 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 20:58
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Does it feel more powerful on the road?
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post #14 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 21:53
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I have a few questions:
Whats the year & mileage?
I would also question the remap, Celtic tuning or not, people make mistakes?
Who said you should be getting over 200bhp as that's not true as a 1st stage either, low to mid 190's at best.
Did you map out the EGR or keep it?
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post #15 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 21:58
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Aha! Just noticed you went for a stage 2
I take it the car was stock when you took it as the initial readings are around 136bhp?
Have you upgraded the clutch for stage 2 as this WILL slip like buggery on a second stage remap (done correctly that is!) - A stock clutch will not survive a stage 2 remap.
Is the car revving like a banshee and going nowhere??
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post #16 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 22:05
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Here is my stage 1 readings - same car.... 190/380
So something seriously wrong on your remap but I will give you a race!!
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post #17 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 22:21 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondacivicnut View Post
Does it feel more powerful on the road?
Yeah seems a little bit pokey on the road now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topic View Post
I have a few questions:
Whats the year & mileage?
I would also question the remap, Celtic tuning or not, people make mistakes?
Who said you should be getting over 200bhp as that's not true as a 1st stage either, low to mid 190's at best.
Did you map out the EGR or keep it?
59 plate and about 72k now
stage 2 remap from their website -


Clutch was changed about 3 - 4 weeks ago from TDI north directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topic View Post
Here is my stage 1 readings - same car.... 190/380
So something seriously wrong on your remap but I will give you a race!!
This is mine lol -

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post #18 of 198 (permalink) Old 26th November 2016, 22:35
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I'll be honest and say that's cr.p!
Look for another remapper - I've noticed Celtic do now and again come out with half truths and misleading information.
May be worth getting someone else to check it out?
Is the race on then
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post #19 of 198 (permalink) Old 27th November 2016, 08:39
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If you have any doubts about engine performance then have a full range of interactive tests run using a Honda Diagnostic System (HDS) just to ensure that full boost and full pressure are available, and that the EGR valve and IMRC are fully functional, and that the injectors are balanced.

I strongly believe that remapping companies really should run these tests BEFORE loading an upgrade map. Many stock engines only just scrape through these tests due to wear or gunge, so upping the demands on the engine systems can often expose such weaknesses. After the remap it can be difficult to assess the systems, as the HDS can become confused by the altered operating characteristics.

Fahad of Elite/Premier remaps always used to run full HDS diagnostics prior to remapping at base (I assume he still does).

If it's contaminated then the MAF sensor should respond well to cleaning. Unfortunately (if removal is the same as my Accord) then you need a 5-point torx bit to remove it. Why the bloody hell Honda used such screws is beyond me? You should probably also clean the MAP sensor while you're at it.
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post #20 of 198 (permalink) Old 27th November 2016, 09:41 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topic View Post
I'll be honest and say that's cr.p!
Look for another remapper - I've noticed Celtic do now and again come out with half truths and misleading information.
May be worth getting someone else to check it out?
Is the race on then
Yeah thats what I thought!, might have another supplier look at it £200 wasted lol!.

To behonest mate you could probs fart faster past my car! (but did blow a vauxhall insignia on the way home lol)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_G View Post
If you have any doubts about engine performance then have a full range of interactive tests run using a Honda Diagnostic System (HDS) just to ensure that full boost and full pressure are available, and that the EGR valve and IMRC are fully functional, and that the injectors are balanced.

I strongly believe that remapping companies really should run these tests BEFORE loading an upgrade map. Many stock engines only just scrape through these tests due to wear or gunge, so upping the demands on the engine systems can often expose such weaknesses. After the remap it can be difficult to assess the systems, as the HDS can become confused by the altered operating characteristics.

Fahad of Elite/Premier remaps always used to run full HDS diagnostics prior to remapping at base (I assume he still does).

If it's contaminated then the MAF sensor should respond well to cleaning. Unfortunately (if removal is the same as my Accord) then you need a 5-point torx bit to remove it. Why the bloody hell Honda used such screws is beyond me? You should probably also clean the MAP sensor while you're at it.
Cheers for the info buddy, I was looking at Fahad service last night and may give hin a shout if this dont work out.

Bought a leak test kits so will give that a try, going to chnage all filters and then check the MAF and then the MAP and either dreaded replace or clean them up.

Cheers.
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