Transmission i Shift change - new software

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by BOBBYJ

Kremmen is your case is proven - I think it is. I have spoken with Honda regarding my own findings and quoted their advertising regarding I-Shift performing as a conventional automatic. Honda are in total "Accord" (sorry!) with our views and have confirmed there is to be a vehicle recall for all earlier I-Shift models to rectify what they describe as "shortcomings".They state this will be a software upgrade and will happen before the end of 2007.

Lets hope when the upgrade happens we can all report it has been successfull.

Look forward to hearing your opinions.

[ecs43x]

Originally Posted by Nick7

I'm not angry.
I'm just stating I-Shift is completely different thing compared to standard automatic gearbox, since it's just robotized manual gearbox - which has it's benefits and downpits.
All in all, it requires sometimes 'human input' to avoid so-called 'dangerous situations'. Unfortunately, there is no way yet for computer to read minds of people and predict what exactly they want to do

Hello !
Right, i-shift is not automatic gearbox. But this i-shift can be dangerous like I described it. I most use manual change of gear when increase it from 1st to 6th but I left the i-shift do "auto-downshift" and I had several case where my car was immobilized in the midle of the road. Trying to change manually gear or press on the accelerator didn't help because the electronic didn't know what to do ! (one time, I was very near to have a big accident)
I draugh very smoth and I like this i-shift gear box in manual mode which is smoth and "quick" except the 2nd gear which is a big problem. Did you try to decelerate and accelerate in second below 2000rpm ! the motor goes up to about 3200rpm before the gear is completely engaged !! ( on "mounting" road ! 1% or more )
In automatic mode, time to change gear is very long and not very nice (most time is spend by the electronic not allowing immediat acceleration just after the gear changed ! about 0.5s can be saved here)
I'm curious to see how the new code will work. The time seems to be long for me waiting on this new code
(sorry for my English if it is no perfect)

[Maldax]

Originally Posted by ecs43x

Trying to change manually gear or press on the accelerator didn't help because the electronic didn't know what to do !

I think that is the problem.. It is very easy to Panic and change what you are doing. With either changing what you are doing with your foot or switching to manual mode. The system does catch up very quickly if you stay calm and commited (well thats what I find)

[eyemdee]

Originally Posted by ecs43x

Hello !
Right, i-shift is not automatic gearbox. But this i-shift can be dangerous like I described it. I most use manual change of gear when increase it from 1st to 6th but I left the i-shift do "auto-downshift" ...

Are you leaving it in Manual mode to let it "auto-downshift"? The reason I ask is that Manual mode is what it says - Manual.

Although it WILL downshift automatically, I believe this is only to prevent the engine stalling through being in too high a gear - which a normal manual gearbox can not and will not do. If you have left the gearbox in manual mode then expect it to behave like a full automatic as you slow down, you may be asking too much of it.

I also use the gears manually to accelerate quickly, but always flick back to Auto mode once moving. Automatic downshifts should happen at fairly high revs, not as stalling speed is approached in Manual mode.

[Korkut Varol]

Originally Posted by Maldax

I think that is the problem.. It is very easy to Panic and change what you are doing. With either changing what you are doing with your foot or switching to manual mode. The system does catch up very quickly if you stay calm and commited (well thats what I find)

I agree with that. Even an unintentional reflex motion with your right foot creates another new parametric case to decide upon. Do this during the pause, the pause is extended..
I got used to its habits now, so I am kind of away from the inconveniences that the pause may cause. But I think it is not the way it should be. Hope that the mod cures it up a bit.
Coming to the 2nd gear low rpm case, that is a situation where the clutch plates are worn beyond the driver's control. On my daily route, this always happens (used to happen, actually). There is a T-junction where I slow down (naturally) to a speed that it stays in 2nd gear. The main road is a bit uphill, so I steer and press on the gas pedal to end up with the same speed and increased rpm for about 5 seconds. Now I downshift there to 1st manually, and then have no problems.
Can be made better, but not a case for me to mourn.. Nothing is perfect---I love my UFO.

[ecs43x]

Originally Posted by Maldax

I think that is the problem.. It is very easy to Panic and change what you are doing. With either changing what you are doing with your foot or switching to manual mode. The system does catch up very quickly if you stay calm and commited (well thats what I find)

No, I desagree because the panic was after the problem occured.
How to not panic when the car didn't accelerate when you press on the accelerator and you are in manual mode
The electronic of the gear box refused to autorise acceleration I requested
and like I wrote it , it takes several seconds and this put us in panic mode.
It isn't a human error or miss use but a real problem due to the electronic of the gear box.
Are you sure not going into panic mode when you are in second gear (manual mode) and when you accelerate, the car refuses and the only thing you have to do is wait until the electronic decides to allow the requested acceleration ? .....
It is a real problem and very dangerous like I wrote it. Again, I didn't speak about human error but electronic bug. The same is true about very long Clutch skates in 2nd gear when accelerating with low rpm or speed in light "uphill" (I have to wait that RPM goes from 1600 to about 3200 before the clutch is ok !). Of course, you can down shift into 1st gear but that will use higher RPM and CO2 and increase of SP95 ! (why does it only on the 2nd gear ?)

[smiffy]

Surely the whole point of the i-vtec engine is that it delivers a smaller amount of power (and hence economy) at low revs, and lots of power at higher revs. Personally, if I'm in second at anything under about 2500 revs I flip it into first anyway, to make sure I have enough power available. There's no problem with engaging first gear while moving. This engine is designed to work at reasonable revs - just the opposite of the way the diesel works.

[Brodick]

Originally Posted by ecs43x

No, I desagree because the panic was after the problem occured.
How to not panic when the car didn't accelerate when you press on the accelerator and you are in manual mode
The electronic of the gear box refused to autorise acceleration I requested
and like I wrote it , it takes several seconds and this put us in panic mode.
It isn't a human error or miss use but a real problem due to the electronic of the gear box.
Are you sure not going into panic mode when you are in second gear (manual mode) and when you accelerate, the car refuses and the only thing you have to do is wait until the electronic decides to allow the requested acceleration ? .....
It is a real problem and very dangerous like I wrote it. Again, I didn't speak about human error but electronic bug. The same is true about very long Clutch skates in 2nd gear when accelerating with low rpm or speed in light "uphill" (I have to wait that RPM goes from 1600 to about 3200 before the clutch is ok !). Of course, you can down shift into 1st gear but that will use higher RPM and CO2 and increase of SP95 ! (why does it only on the 2nd gear ?)

In you car and some other peoples cars maybe but there are quite a few owners more than happy with their 06 i-shifts as are most 07 i-shift owners

[BOBBYJ]

This has been a brilliant thread and it shows how different our experiences and expectations of I-Shift have been. For my part it is important to realise that a car can be lethal and therefore essential the driver remains in control at all times. I now jump from I-Shift to manual when needing to accelerate at junctions, hills and roundabouts and must say it is a new experience and quite enjoyable but should be unnecessary.

The point however remains that Honda advertise I-Shift as operating as a conventional automatic which, as discussed, many of us agree it doesn't. Honda have agreed there are 'shortcomings' with I-Shift and are developing modifications and so we wait for an enhancement to what is already a superb car.

[Kremmen]

Agreed

My only concern is that the forthcoming mod is for 06 Civics and my 07 will be missed out.

[Doubtingthomas]

Originally Posted by Kremmen

Agreed

My only concern is that the forthcoming mod is for 06 Civics and my 07 will be missed out.

I can understand your concern, Kremmen. As I have a 57 i-shift I have not experienced, (yet) the 'trauma' that some owners with 06 and maybe 07 i-shifts have. I am still familiarising myself with this rather unconventional gearbox, but so far no problems, and I like it, so far.....

I'm afraid it looks like a waiting game for you. Hopefully 06 owners will advise us when they have had the update/upgrade and post their findings. Once the programme starts, if you do not receive word, I suggest you check your vehicle upgrade status on line, with your dealer and Honda itself.

The key to it all appears to be the car's software governing the i-shift. It would be interesting to know how many variants there have been since launch and to which cars. I can recall a post saying that 08 models i-shifts will have a modification. Does that mean 57 i-shifts will be upgraded?

I think Honda will upgrade the software on 06 and maybe 07 i-shifts up to a certain benchmark whilst maybe "tweaking" new models. We shall have to wait and see, little comfort for you I know.

[Kremmen]

Failing that I'll drive it backwards so I don't have any gear changes

[new4hondas]

Can somebody please explain to a newbie what you mean by " 57-plate"?
I am expecting mine i-shift next month and i really like to know.
Thanks.

[Kremmen]

In the UK we have a registration mark that identifies the months of the year that the car was first registered:

06 = March 2006 > August 2006
56 = September 2006 > February 2007
07 = March 2007 > August 2007
57 = September 2007 > February 2008

and so on.......

A 57 just means a car first registered September 2007 onwards

[Korkut Varol]

Originally Posted by Kremmen

In the UK we have a registration mark that identifies the months of the year that the car was first registered:

06 = March 2006 > August 2006
56 = September 2006 > February 2007
07 = March 2007 > August 2007
57 = September 2007 > February 2008

and so on.......

A 57 just means a car first registered September 2007 onwards

I was curious for that too..
But what is the reason behind the fact that the periods don't start with January and thus the second bi-annual periods flow on to the next year?

[TTDegs]

It's all to do with trying to smooth out car sales

A few years ago, the UK had one 'plate change' per year - in August if I remember correctly

This was traditionally mid year (with my cycnical head on) to maximise car sales at a time when people had no other big outlays coming up (ie away from Christmas and Easter).

In their wisdom, the car manufacturers got together with the government and attempted to smooth out the big peak in August sales by changing the plates twice per year instead

To make it all the more complex, Honda (and most others) actually start producing 'next year spec' cars in about October(ish)...

So if you take delivery on September 1st 2007, you get a '57' plate car, on an '07 spec

If you take delivery on December 1st 2007, you get a '57' plate car, quite possibly on an '08 spec

But it gets even more complex, as the car you get on Dec 1st may have been sitting round on a dealer forecourt for some months, so might still be '07 spec...


good innit!

[Korkut Varol]

Thanks, TT..
I find it puzzling why people put labyrinths into could-be-straightforward matters..

[new4hondas]

So i have the chance to get a "57 plate" then.
Thanks for info Kremmen.

[Fredsays]

I seem to have started this thread on the modified i Shift. Have subsequently run a 1.8 SE i Shift (07 modified) for about 1800miles my wife and I driving. Not one quality problem (fingers crossed) which is what I expect from Honda. i Shift is overall fine if you do not judge it as a either torque converter auto or as a manual, eg my wife has had to get used to holding it on an incline whereas a torgue converter does that easily. My only serious complaint is the 'roundabout hesitation'. What I find surprising and disconcerting is that this is not consistent. Sometimes it operates fine but just occasionally you are left without drive. This is certainly a safety issue as you then thump the brakes and anybody behind expecting you to be moving off (no brake lights) may have a problem stopping!
I also notice a slight clutch judder/slip as though if you were in manual there is a mismatch between engine speed and road speed - you are not in the right gear. This is felt only occasionally.
I have just noticed that up to 30 mph and a bit higher it remains in 3rd gear and about 2000rpm which is not good for mileage and seems unnecessary. This may be a defect with our car and the Dealer is to look next week.

[Nick7]

Originally Posted by Fredsays

eg my wife has had to get used to holding it on an incline whereas a torgue converter does that easily.

I sure hope you don't mean to hold it in gear and with gas pedal?
On incline you should hold it on brakes, or you'll fry your clutch!

I have just noticed that up to 30 mph and a bit higher it remains in 3rd gear and about 2000rpm which is not good for mileage and seems unnecessary. This may be a defect with our car and the Dealer is to look next week.

That is idea of new software, not to change gears too soon.
And 2000rpm is still quite low as far as rpm's go.