Tuning Other ways of modifying the 2.2 diesel - Page 3

slick · 18th January 2008, 23:00

why use a bigger intercooler, why not put a charge cooler in instead, should be able to run at higher boost for more power and use less space.

ritchie_perriam · 19th January 2008, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick

why use a bigger intercooler, why not put a charge cooler in instead, should be able to run at higher boost for more power and use less space.

a chargecooler is getting a bit extreme and expensive! as they are water cooled there would have to be a water pump and separate cooling system ect ect. the engine bay is cramped enough as it is!

any pics of that intercooler installation

yhomega · 20th January 2008, 11:59

yhomega · 20th January 2008, 12:09

i used the stock piping plus my home made piping
i had to remove one fan (has you can see on the picture) it was one of my piping problem.
i have a grand prix pack, but to instal the front part i need to cut it a litle bit(the new intercooler is too big), i will do it in the next week.
i think performance are very very good, but i can't tell you how many horse power.
i will make a 0 to 100 km/h test (i will compare it to the honda 0 to 100 information. or if somebody has the 0 to 100 time with a remapped civic?)
i will see my chip tunner if he can increase a litlle bit the turbo pressure
if you have advise or question no problem

i'm just a 20 years old who want to have fun

ritchie_perriam · 20th January 2008, 12:53

nicly done! i thought somthing of that size should do the trick! did you leave the old intercooler in place?

yhomega · 20th January 2008, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ritchie_perriam

nicly done! i thought somthing of that size should do the trick! did you leave the old intercooler in place?

no

t-raz · 23rd January 2008, 17:22

WHich are the dimensions of your new intercooler?How it might been to fit perfectlY?Thank you!

Nick7 · 24th January 2008, 09:14

Sorry guys...

But that dyno is just not possible with a *stock turbo*, even with bigger IC.
I've seen dynos that can overread over 30HP at powers like 200HP, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of them.

You are talking of change from 140HP to 225HP with basically just chipping.
It is just not possible with stock turbo.
As good example are other dynos where you can see how torque dramatically falls down after some 2000-ish rpm's - and this is simply because turbo is out of it's steam.

Without major changes, that dyno is just not possible.

welly · 24th January 2008, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick7

Sorry guys...

But that dyno is just not possible with a *stock turbo*, even with bigger IC.
I've seen dynos that can overread over 30HP at powers like 200HP, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of them.

You are talking of change from 140HP to 225HP with basically just chipping.
It is just not possible with stock turbo.
As good example are other dynos where you can see how torque dramatically falls down after some 2000-ish rpm's - and this is simply because turbo is out of it's steam.

Without major changes, that dyno is just not possible.

How do you support that claim?

Another jealous petrol owner I fear

ritchie_perriam · 24th January 2008, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by welly

Another jealous petrol owner I fear

my thoughts exactly! he justs wants 200bhp!

slick · 24th January 2008, 16:50

their is a difference between remapping and chipping, as these are just having the original ecu remapped, there is no chip being fitted.

as for reaching those BHP figures, is it possible - i presume yes from what i've seen on here, but then i have never seen the car in the flesh so can't make a perfect assumtion on it.

as for getting it there, my guess is that on a remap part of the process would be to increase the boost in the turbo, i don't know what the stock boost is but i'm guessing it could handle a few PSI. if you add the larger IC i take it that the car can run at higher boost safer. hence the ability to reach 225 bhp with a remap and a larger intercooler.

on a sub note it is possible that doing this could sacrafice power at the top end. the turbo could reach maxium power but to early, but if this is the case on this car i don't know.

Nick7 · 24th January 2008, 17:37

Why is it not possible?
Because stock turbo is too small for that.
As for figures, check other dyno graphs of people who have 170-ish HP - which can be done, and is done.
But we're talking about 220HP here, which is extra 80HP.
Stock turbo is not big enough for that.

And to support my 'theory' just check other dyno graphs and what you will notice is huge torque drop after some 2000rpm. This is due to turbo not being able to push more air for more torque/power in higher rpm's.

Fitting bigger intercooler could net you few extra HP due to colder air coming into engine, but every turbo has it's limits.

In all cars everything is overdimensioned for longevity, but not so much.
Bigger turbo also means slower spool time and bigger turbo hole.

Reason why lots of chipped/remapped cars do tend to have issues if pushed a bit hard is turbo is at that powers losing it's efficency, and starting to spin too fast.

If it was said that that 220HP Civic had turbo replaced too, I would believe it. But not with stock one.

And yes, I do know a bit about turbo's as I was researching this topic quite a lot as I had turbo fitted on my Civic (done it myself, with all other stuff needed - fuel, retard ignition, etc).

Macela · 30th June 2008, 17:39

my civic from Portugal

it's only a soft stage

damianscott71 · 30th June 2008, 18:06

Hi everybody,

I'm on my third modified diesel car. My first was a Passat 1.9 TDI that started at 110bhp, and ended up circa 180bhp. This entailed upgraded injectors, bigger turbo and custom remap to keep everything sweet. There was more power to be had but the tuner (Superchips in Buckingham) had to knock back the power to avoid flywheel judder. In fairness, this is going to be a stumbling point as you increase the amount of torque that the Civic's engine generates too. You can have a solid flywheel made & fitted to negate this problem, but this comes at the cost of engine smoothness.

Other problems are as Nick7 has indicated, the relatively small turbo can run out of puff at the top end. This is why BMW, Peugeot, Citroen, Jaguar & now Saab have introduced twin turboed petrol & diesel engined cars. They're fitted with a small turbo for low revs, and a bigger turbo for higher revs. Thus avoiding the problems inherent with both a small and large turbo's (the bigger the turbo, the more the lag!)

Custom injectors will be the obvious next upgrage route. Bigger nozzles & higher injection pressure=more fuel in=more bhp. Fratelli Bozio in Italy make some for the VAG range and could possibly make some for the Honda engine too. However, it's not a cheap job, and replacing nozzles on injectors is a specialist job (and a half).

For the record, I fitted the injectors from a VW T4 Transporter into my Passat. Net result was phenominal!

Now, here's the real kick in the nuts for us Civic owners.... No matter how much I tuned my Passat, I still always got 60MPG!

I think my next car might be another 6 year old Passat!

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This thread is about: Other ways of modifying the 2.2 diesel, it's in Engines and Transmission at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; why use a bigger intercooler, why not put a charge cooler in instead, should be able to run at higher boost for more power and ...

18th January 2008, 23:00	#41 (permalink)
slick Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 14th December 2007 Location: Ipswich, UK Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	why use a bigger intercooler, why not put a charge cooler in instead, should be able to run at higher boost for more power and use less space.

20th January 2008, 11:59	#43 (permalink)
yhomega Valve Cap Join Date: 25th June 2007 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)

20th January 2008, 12:09	#44 (permalink)
yhomega Valve Cap Join Date: 25th June 2007 Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	i used the stock piping plus my home made piping i had to remove one fan (has you can see on the picture) it was one of my piping problem. i have a grand prix pack, but to instal the front part i need to cut it a litle bit(the new intercooler is too big), i will do it in the next week. i think performance are very very good, but i can't tell you how many horse power. i will make a 0 to 100 km/h test (i will compare it to the honda 0 to 100 information. or if somebody has the 0 to 100 time with a remapped civic?) i will see my chip tunner if he can increase a litlle bit the turbo pressure if you have advise or question no problem i'm just a 20 years old who want to have fun

20th January 2008, 12:53	#45 (permalink)
ritchie_perriam Tyre Shredder Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 30th November 2007 Location: guildford, surrey Posts: 287 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	nicly done! i thought somthing of that size should do the trick! did you leave the old intercooler in place?

23rd January 2008, 17:22	#47 (permalink)
t-raz Valve Cap Join Date: 26th October 2007 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	WHich are the dimensions of your new intercooler?How it might been to fit perfectlY?Thank you!

24th January 2008, 09:14	#48 (permalink)
Nick7 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 451 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Sorry guys... But that dyno is just not possible with a stock turbo, even with bigger IC. I've seen dynos that can overread over 30HP at powers like 200HP, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of them. You are talking of change from 140HP to 225HP with basically just chipping. It is just not possible with stock turbo. As good example are other dynos where you can see how torque dramatically falls down after some 2000-ish rpm's - and this is simply because turbo is out of it's steam. Without major changes, that dyno is just not possible.

24th January 2008, 16:50	#51 (permalink)
slick Supporter Wheelnut Join Date: 14th December 2007 Location: Ipswich, UK Posts: 67 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	their is a difference between remapping and chipping, as these are just having the original ecu remapped, there is no chip being fitted. as for reaching those BHP figures, is it possible - i presume yes from what i've seen on here, but then i have never seen the car in the flesh so can't make a perfect assumtion on it. as for getting it there, my guess is that on a remap part of the process would be to increase the boost in the turbo, i don't know what the stock boost is but i'm guessing it could handle a few PSI. if you add the larger IC i take it that the car can run at higher boost safer. hence the ability to reach 225 bhp with a remap and a larger intercooler. on a sub note it is possible that doing this could sacrafice power at the top end. the turbo could reach maxium power but to early, but if this is the case on this car i don't know.

24th January 2008, 17:37	#52 (permalink)
Nick7 Supporter Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 10th August 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 451 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Why is it not possible? Because stock turbo is too small for that. As for figures, check other dyno graphs of people who have 170-ish HP - which can be done, and is done. But we're talking about 220HP here, which is extra 80HP. Stock turbo is not big enough for that. And to support my 'theory' just check other dyno graphs and what you will notice is huge torque drop after some 2000rpm. This is due to turbo not being able to push more air for more torque/power in higher rpm's. Fitting bigger intercooler could net you few extra HP due to colder air coming into engine, but every turbo has it's limits. In all cars everything is overdimensioned for longevity, but not so much. Bigger turbo also means slower spool time and bigger turbo hole. Reason why lots of chipped/remapped cars do tend to have issues if pushed a bit hard is turbo is at that powers losing it's efficency, and starting to spin too fast. If it was said that that 220HP Civic had turbo replaced too, I would believe it. But not with stock one. And yes, I do know a bit about turbo's as I was researching this topic quite a lot as I had turbo fitted on my Civic (done it myself, with all other stuff needed - fuel, retard ignition, etc).

30th June 2008, 17:39	#53 (permalink)
Macela Valve Cap Join Date: 22nd June 2008 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	my civic from Portugal it's only a soft stage

30th June 2008, 18:06	#54 (permalink)
damianscott71 Diesel Demon Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 1st July 2006 Location: Kempston, Bedfordshire Posts: 449 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi everybody, I'm on my third modified diesel car. My first was a Passat 1.9 TDI that started at 110bhp, and ended up circa 180bhp. This entailed upgraded injectors, bigger turbo and custom remap to keep everything sweet. There was more power to be had but the tuner (Superchips in Buckingham) had to knock back the power to avoid flywheel judder. In fairness, this is going to be a stumbling point as you increase the amount of torque that the Civic's engine generates too. You can have a solid flywheel made & fitted to negate this problem, but this comes at the cost of engine smoothness. Other problems are as Nick7 has indicated, the relatively small turbo can run out of puff at the top end. This is why BMW, Peugeot, Citroen, Jaguar & now Saab have introduced twin turboed petrol & diesel engined cars. They're fitted with a small turbo for low revs, and a bigger turbo for higher revs. Thus avoiding the problems inherent with both a small and large turbo's (the bigger the turbo, the more the lag!) Custom injectors will be the obvious next upgrage route. Bigger nozzles & higher injection pressure=more fuel in=more bhp. Fratelli Bozio in Italy make some for the VAG range and could possibly make some for the Honda engine too. However, it's not a cheap job, and replacing nozzles on injectors is a specialist job (and a half). For the record, I fitted the injectors from a VW T4 Transporter into my Passat. Net result was phenominal! Now, here's the real kick in the nuts for us Civic owners.... No matter how much I tuned my Passat, I still always got 60MPG! I think my next car might be another 6 year old Passat!