Choices First taste of Civic VTEC - You can keep it!

[Bog]

Originally Posted by IGGY

Civic DIESELS are for old men who cannot be bothered with the whole needing to drive or no about your cars engine they want to just put there foot down and feel abit of power (for a few short seconds )and get further on a full tank !

I own a 1.8 vtec TYPE S you are talking about raw power and there is a difference of 400cc between the diesel etc. With the 1.8 you have to work with it abit make an effort to actually drive ! But the experience of a vtec to a diesel is no comparision in anyway. Sound of a diesel you start it up the morning and you can hear the piston driving dddddddddd until it is warm. Then all you get is a bit of a girly whistle when the turbo is in. But vtec is different you can feel the engineering throuh the pedals when you want a bit of power wack it down a gear or 2. Listen to it you cannot do that with any other car you have to actually appreciate Vtec to no how to work with it if you do you never even talk about diesels ! JUST LISTEN AND REV

Type R 2.0 no turbo no supercharger no nos PURE ENGINEERING all it needs is air a fuel. That is raw engineering power non of this vxr wack a big turbo on it mine is quicker than yours mine has a turbo rubbish! It is all about the way you drive not what you drive!

I no the power difference my mum owns a 2.2 56 plate civic my dad owns a 2.2 56 plate accord / 2.2 crv and his weekend toy of s2000 absolute dynamite i could talk about the s2000 all day but i want we love honda older brother owns a 1.8 vtec sport 5dr we love it so i no a hell of a lot of how the difference in hondas drive. Personally i think the raw turbo power in his accord would wipe out any 2.2 civic. Rev range on a civic diesel is shocking it takes a long time to kick in the turbo in the civic and once you are there you get a quick 2-3 seconds then you have to change gear you feel alot of torque but it is not for long enough Where as in the accord the turbo is always in anytime you need it its there! 2.2 civic is rubbish for old lazy men. Any car is fast if you no the car and what it can do You would just get in a diesel and asume it was faster a better quicker car because you feel abit of torque and save fuel.

Vtec is passion and for people who no how to drive and love driving !!!

Honda sell different ranges to different people every body has a budget and a prefrence of driving if if you think the diesiel is a faster car because you get a bit of torque and its qiet thats why you bought it ! You wouldnt buy a type r and have a box of ear plugs next to you becuse it is really fast but to loud for your ears would you Vtec is superb if you no how to use it my friend drove my car the other day he drives a 2.0 t a3 and he said it was slow. Then i drove it with him in it and showed him how to use the VTEC and he soon changed his mind



VTEC AND DIESEL ARE LIKE DIFFERENT PLANETS YOU CANNOT COMPARE SO PLEASE DO NOT COMPARE THEM IF YOU DONT REALY NO ABOUT VTEC !!

Now Richie, you really have wound up IGGY!

[Greedy]

Iggy

Slow down mate - it's OK to be passioante about your car but no need to cast insults at the many (young&older) civic diesel drivers on this site.

As for you assumptions about the relative pace I can assure you that a 2.2 civic woops a 2.2 accord - and as an ex race team manager I know how to get the best out of a car -I get it regular in my area as an Acc iCDTi driver surrounded by the Honda factory boys and I can't keep up with them on the straight in their 2.2 but but the 1.8 eats my dust. Also the Civic 2.2 is the car of choice for many of the young guys at the factory so it is not an age issue.

I can also assure you it's not a matter of thinking, it's a fact, the 2.2 in the Civic is faster then the 1.8 straight line or real driving. Check the stats.

And at the end of the day you do only have a single cam iVtec not a TWIN CAM VTEC

I'd take a T/C VTEC over a TDi any day but also I'd take the TDi over the S/C i-Vtec

[richierich]

*takes a step back and hides in the shadows*

Iggy, does somebody need a hug? I didn't mean to upset you, although I think I hit a raw nerve, I would agree with Greedy and swap the diesel for the twin cam vtec anyday, the feel, the noise, its fantastic, and it is for those who KNOW engines and how to drive. Not those who NO them, no engine would be a crappy drive wouldn't it.

And I don't mean to be pedantic but the 2.0 Type R needs more than air and fuel, it needs a source of ignition, surely you remember the fire triangle.

Now Diesels, they only need air and fuel, they rely on compression ignition to create the bang. Sorry to those of you who no about engines.

[jayt43]

With all that smoke coming out of your triangle Richie, it must surely be a 2.2 diesel exhaust!

[richierich]

All 4 of them baby!!

Isn't that supposed to be air (wind)??

[jayt43]

I was taking a creative liberty with your wind!

[Hartside]

That's probably one of the funniest things I've read on here!

[IGGY]

I did not mean the thread to be an agressive one ! I was just trying to get the factor across that you cannot compare any deisel with a Vtec.

I also appologise if i offended people of the older generation it was just a personal quote. Due to fact majority of the older generation drive diesels and dont stop going on about the price of fuel and how much does your car get to mpg etc.

Thanks greedy i know what i drive ! And the diesel is olny 0.3 sec quicker only in a straight line your supspension will not take it on the lanes well it will but no where near an s/r and i personly think you would have to be quick off the line to get it right you being an ex racing manager etc most probably will but not people can it right of the mark !!

[czechplastik]

First Iggy You have made several factual (as well as grammatical errors),

The 2.2 IS faster and more powerful than the 1.8. FACT. The 2.2 can have as much as 148-150bhp standard as opposed to the 138bhp with the petrol.

"2.2 civic is rubbish for old lazy men." I don't know where you got that from? I am neither old nor lazy, just enjoy the surge in power.

The 2.2 can be easily chipped or remapped to as much as 180/190bhp. Your 1.8 will always remain 138bhp without expensive modifications. And even the stock 2.2 would beat your petrol in a drag race.

You obviously prefer the petrol, fair enough, but it is slower than the diesel, less flexible and has less potential to go faster.

I'll stick with diesel thanks

[fennj]

The 1.8 ivtec is a very clever engine that leaves many manufacturers behind. Lets not forget it was developed with economy in mind, and not power, for a 1.8 44mpg real world figures is class leading and when you want some power it's there, albeit at 5k rpm.

I find most turbo diesels to be a very relaxing drive but when you do push on I don't like how the power just disappears altogether. I certainly wouldn't swap mine for a diesel even if it is only a SHOC. Each to his own.

If this SOHC i-vtec petrol engine had another 400cc would it be faster than the 2.2 diesel ? Probably

[elfa7]

If my auntie had ......... !. Just thought I'd stoke the flames .

[jazzman]

The diesel v petrol "discussion" could go on for ever however point that has`nt been brought up is simply thar Honda restrict your choice simply because the do not offer a choice of auto or manual gearboxes on any of the diesels in any of the ranges.We origionally wanted an i-shift diesel as we always buy auto cars but found that you could`nt have one so we had petrol the point being that honda must be losing sales as most competitors offer the option

[IGGY]

I appreciate that the diesel can be re-mapped etc but i dont no any chip you can buy for under £400 but what the hell !! you like diesel i like vtec doesnt matter enjoy your diesel

[AubreyS]

If I wanted something with a tractor engine, I'd buy a Massey Ferguson!

Petrol for me every time.

[pcr]

I think there are no winners in this discussion. The diesel has a turbo for power, the petrol has Vtec for economy, chalk and cheese really. The diesel compared to the R-type seems a better contest to me, and a better match wrt engine price.

[harryg]

Engine
MAN B&WModel11K90MC-C
Type 2-Stroke Engine
Power 66,398 hp


Now this is what I call a diesel!!!!!!!!!
all you petrol heads out there...a diesel will always produce more power either in 2 stroke (low RPM) or 4 stroke (low & high speed).

[nortones2]

Our local dealer service manager (not old by any means!) rates the 2.2 diesel far higher than the BOF 1.8 or even the Type R. Revs in a car are tedious for the long term, but the max of the 1.8 is still shopping trolley territory If you want fast - get a two wheeler. No body work to resonate and annoy, no excess mass to corrupt the power to weight ratio, and you can hear the engine at work.

[fennj]

Hope this link works. If it does watch, listen & learn.

Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine

[ITSRICKSCIVIC]

at the moment im driving a courtesy car diesel type s 547 miles on the clock , as others have said the diesel engine is quite superb but i still prefer the 1.8 petrol .
if i wanted to save some money on fuel i would have purchased a diesel (or would i) the price difference inbetween the type s and the type sd would take some recouping in fuel savings alone , i am currently averaging 41.2 mpg in the petrol and im not a lightright,the courtesy car is returning 47.7mpg so not much difference , if you read all the forums the diesel is eating tyres and brake pads a lot quicker than the petrol (this is the case with all td cars versus their petrol counterparts.Both the diesel and the petrol put a smile on my face even the 1.4 when broken in revs for fun and is great around town.

[Trekker308]

Originally Posted by fennj

Hope this link works. If it does watch, listen & learn.

Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine

Yep, your linked worked fine - and there's an equally informative video on the 2.2 i-CTDi engine too...

Enough guys!

Surely one of the reasons there is both a VTEC and a diesel option is that there's more than one type of driver (leaving marketing reasons aside!) - and I don't buy the 'old man' image of current diesel cars either, as although I'm now on my sixth decade I've competed in both circuit racing and rallying at both national and international level and it ain't out of my system yet - I get a real hit out of using a car somewhere close to its maximum where and when I can (not always to the amusement of my passenger!).

There is a reason diesel engine R&D is producing great driving experiences in current cars and it hinges around enviromental/political issues - the governments in both the UK and elsewhere have and are putting their weight behind biofuel alternatives to current petrol blends because they have to be seen to be doing something, but it is a sham!! The engine designers of the world know better and are putting their money on diesel engines until something better is viable.

I have the misfortune to be intimately involved in the design and construction of one of the very large plants currently being designed (for a company called B*) to produce the petrol that has to be sold to us from Jan 1st 2010, and I can tell you that that the fuel will be c**p - way less efficient as fuel, so your tank of petrol ain't going to go anywhere near as many miles, plus the fact that the plant that produces it will exhaust close to 41 tonnes of CO2/hour in the act of producing it.........

One of the great experiences of my life was owning two Lancia Delta Integrales (don't know it? - look it up!!!) - good old fashioned petrolhead automotive engineering at its best - quicker than any Ferrari cross country - but forget it, the petrol engine has a limited life in current form, and also forget the prejudices about diesels until something more acceptable comes along -like it or not, diesel engines is, and will be where it's at for a while yet.......

...and, if my bosses see this - I'm sacked!!