Choices First taste of Civic VTEC - You can keep it!

[richierich]

Picked up a courtesy car this morning, I think its an SE, its the 1.8 (i know that for sure), but it feels so different compared to my EX Diesel, when I put my foot on the clutch it felt like it was not connected to anything, and then when I turned the wheel I though that had come loose too. Is this just the Petrol experience? Also, I am assuming as its the petrol then it has VTEC, this is the first time I have driven the Civic VTEC and to be honest you can keep it, the diesel is just such a better engine. At 70 up the motorway the petrol sounds far too noisy, like it could do with a 7th gear, and when you put your foot down nothing seems to happen. The last time I drove a VTEC it was in an Accord Type R and you could feel the difference as you went through the rev range, the 1.8 just gets louder. This is an 07 with 5500 miles on it, am I being hard on it or have you VTEC guys been pulling our plonkers about how good it is.

Diesel is king!

[binchy]

I love the Petrol and wouldnt swap for the world. There is differences but you have to drive the petrol like a petrol car and not humm along at 2000 revs (which you can get away with in the diesel).

Just my opinion...

[Nick7]

Diesel vs. Petrol, neverending battle

If you come from Diesel world, you cannot drive petrol car the same. Petrol has less torque but has more revs.. to get some real power, you need to rev it.
It's just completely different driving experience.

[PJS]

Due to the nature of the engine (400cc smaller and petrol), the lack of go you experienced is called torque.
If you need to move, you drop a cog or two, then hammer the loud pedal - instant grin factor 5.
Just the difference between the power delivery - your diesel has more torque, and most of it spread over a smaller rev range due to the turbo unit.

[jazzman]

I love my gorgeous 1.8 i-shift and it goes like the clappers. The difference between the petrol and the diesel is that that you have to use much higher revs as the torque unlike the diesel comes in much higher in the rev range, but it`s a matter of what you get used to and become more familiar with.
The performance figures of both types are very similar but they just do it in different ways, anyway all civics are great.

[richierich]

I of course was not shy with the loud pedal (after all its not my car) but there was no real sense of acceleration, just felt like it got louder.

Don't know how you petrol drivers can get excited by that, higher revs = lower fuel economy = more money at the pumps.

[Bog]

Having driven both I sort of know what you mean. The 2.2 does feel quicker a pulling away and does give a smile inducing shove in the back, but it does run out of puff! The 1.8 just keeps on pulling right upto about 6k, so less gear changing. I came from a deisel laguna and it took me a while to get used to reving the engine. The 1.8 can be driven gently and it will reward you with good mpg, but drop a gear and floor the pedal and it becomes a beast! I've surprised a few Focus ST and Astra SRi numpties who have tried to tailgate me!

The petrol or desiel debate will go on for ever, but from my experience both the 2.2 and the 1.8 are very good engines (the 1.4 is respectable if your not in a hurry!), it's just a matter of personal choice.

[binchy]

Originally Posted by Nick7

It's just completely different driving experience.

Well said that man!

[apemonkeyman]

Having test driven the diesel & then some weeks later found I was going to be waiting so much longer for delivery, I decided to try the 1.8 petrol ... it nearly turned me off buying a Civic cos it just felt like a sluggish people carrier to me.

Mind you, nothing compared to my experience of driving the 1.4 as a courtesy car... mmm, foot down, make a cup of coffee, watch an episode of 24, ah finally we're moving!

[binchy]

Originally Posted by richierich

Don't know how you petrol drivers can get excited by that, higher revs = lower fuel economy = more money at the pumps.

True, but if the Petrol Heads wanted high MPG's and better fuel economy then they would probably stray towards the diesels in any case.

But theres no better sound the Civc petrol Engine when when you really want to go!

[Wheelchair]

Take out the turbo & the diesel will hardly move. Plus all the bloody clattering noises.

Give me petrol any day.

[andrewuk]

ahhhh Petrol vs Diesel. it's an unwinnable argument

I think both of the engine's are great - just different. They both have merits and both have pitfalls. You can't jump out of a diesel and drive a petrol the same style and vice versa - the two are chalk and cheese and doing that will just leave you wondering why everyone else bought the ______ (insert opposite to what you bought) engined model...

I love my Diesel Sport because I rarely have to feed it fuel and of course the grin factor of all that torque. It's also smooth and quiet when cruising and just wafts along the motorway like a dream.

However I also love driving my Girlfriend's old 1.8 VVC K series engined Rover 200 because sometimes after a hard day at work there is nothing better than gunning a petrol car all the way up-to the rev limiter. It's also a beautiful engine (and no it hasn't had a blown Head Gasket yet - we look after our cars ) once it's upto 4,000 rpm and comes alive (although it's no slouch from 2,000rpm either).

Same grin factor but different way of getting it

[Trekker308]

I ain't joining the petrol vs diesel debate - as said before they are very different driving experiences, but I have just gone from my old i-VTEC Sport to a i-CTDi Sport (843 miles on the clock!) so I've been in both camps.

I used to love giving the VTEC some serious 'welly' as it loved being revved and made some nice noises as well, but the move to the 2.2 has shown me new areas of driving pleasure!

I live in a fairly rural setting, and getting about locally entails a lot of driving on twisty country lanes, and this is where I am (still) learning to get the best out of the diesel engine's qualities - if you keep it in the right rev range you can get a real shove in the back acceleration on exiting bends - guaranteed smile-on-the-face stuff

I really loved the VTEC but it wasn't exactly over endowed with torque, so the move to the 2.2 has brought fresh enjoyment to owning a Civic - and the forthcoming Superchip should bring even more smiles!!

[Kremmen]

If they had been capable of producing a diesel i-shift, that's what I would have gone for.

In the meantime the i-vtec will have to do.

Must admit, it does start to drone once you approach 80MPH.

Got the radio auto volume increase set to "Hi" to compensate

[jayt43]

Firstly, apologies for not posting in a long time (and especially to PTR for not responding to his kind message way back).

I think Richie has a fair point though.

For my first few months of ownership with the 1.8 i-VTEC I was, in all honesty, a bit disappointed with how boomy the engine was. Well, to be more precise, how boomy the cabin becomes at exactly 4,000 rpm (in any gear).

Up until that point in the rev range, the petrol Civic is refined. And indeed once you're past 4,000 rpm, the unit takes on a far sportier tone. However, if you happen to change down on the motorway and hit 4,000 rpm exactly, it's not refined or purposeful, but downright hard on the ears.

In fact, I'd go so far to say that my old jazz with the 1.4 DSI engine was, on the whole, a sweeter sounding, more refined unit.

However, with my Civic now on 12,500 miles, the engine has loosened up to the point that travelling at 90-95mph on the autobahn is now a lot less intrusive. It's not that I've simply got used to it, I genuinely believe it's more refined than it was even after 5,000 miles.

On top of that, it's actually pretty quiet if you're happy to change up at around 3,000 rpm. And, what's more, ecomomical too.

So all in all, while I think the 1.8 i-VTEC is by no means a perfect engine, I'm pretty happy with the way it performs both below and above 4,000 rpm. It's just that boomy part of the rev range I dislike.

As for the accelerator pedal not being connected, while there's a clear torque deficit against the 2.2 diesel, could it also be partly down to the design of the gas pedal? It's just I've noticed the 1.8 seems to accelerate more briskly if I plant my right foot on the WHOLE of the pedal (whereas in normal driving, I always tend to use just the edge). I'm not talking about pressure here, but ACTUAL foot positioning.

[Greedy]

Richierich

Having swapped from Pet to Diesel I can see the benfit's of both. Love the punch in the back of the TD but constantly get annoyed with the short reve range. 8500 rpm twin cam TDi please.

However Richierich, to the difference you find in vtec's - 2.2 ATR. Twin cam VTEC. VTEC stage shifts to high lift cams with huge opening lifts & angles - basically racing engine which would be lumpy as hell at low RPM. 1.8 Civic is iVTEC. more about changing opening timing and shuting down valves to acheive more economical driving when not under power and aslight power up when pushed - also single cam not twin cam.
VTEC = Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control. Same technical philosophy applied in a totally different way to the 2 different engines.

Also point of note - many others have 'variable valve timing where they vary the timing by adjusting the offset between the inlet and outlet cams/ followers easy peasy method. Honda have the lift issue as well where engine oil pressure is used via a solenoid to change the cam lobe which the follows are matched to. mucho different system.

Sorry for the egg sucking

[Kremmen]

However, with my Civic now on 12,500 miles, the engine has loosened up to the point that travelling at 90-95mph on the autobahn is now a lot less intrusive. It's not that I've simply got used to it, I genuinely believe it's more refined than it was even after 5,000 miles.

I'm noticing that as well. When it was new the booming started at about 72MPH but now doesn't start until about 78MPH (only 5K miles currently).

[Topcat]

When I had my first civic (1.8 vtec) I felt there was something wrong with the engine as compared to my previous car (1.8 zetec focus) it had no pull and was really loud over 60mph, I also felt it needed another gear and when I drove down the M4 once it sounded like it was going to explode.

However, when the car was replaced with another 1.8 vtec the difference was amazing, my car has plenty of power and is quiet at high speed so i am convinced the first one had an engine problem, then again it did have gear problems which is why it was replaced to maybe the problem was connected.

I may moan about lots of things to do with the civic but the engine isnt one of them

[jayt43]

Kremmen, I think yours should still improve with time. Mine used to get noticeably boomy at around 138 km/h on the autobahn (86 mph). Now it's about 10 km/h more before it starts becoming intrusive. Even then, the boominess has lots its edge. Hence, it's alot easier to live with than before.

[IGGY]

Civic DIESELS are for old men who cannot be bothered with the whole needing to drive or no about your cars engine they want to just put there foot down and feel abit of power (for a few short seconds )and get further on a full tank !

I own a 1.8 vtec TYPE S you are talking about raw power and there is a difference of 400cc between the diesel etc. With the 1.8 you have to work with it abit make an effort to actually drive ! But the experience of a vtec to a diesel is no comparision in anyway. Sound of a diesel you start it up the morning and you can hear the piston driving dddddddddd until it is warm. Then all you get is a bit of a girly whistle when the turbo is in. But vtec is different you can feel the engineering throuh the pedals when you want a bit of power wack it down a gear or 2. Listen to it you cannot do that with any other car you have to actually appreciate Vtec to no how to work with it if you do you never even talk about diesels ! JUST LISTEN AND REV

Type R 2.0 no turbo no supercharger no nos PURE ENGINEERING all it needs is air a fuel. That is raw engineering power non of this vxr wack a big turbo on it mine is quicker than yours mine has a turbo rubbish! It is all about the way you drive not what you drive!

I no the power difference my mum owns a 2.2 56 plate civic my dad owns a 2.2 56 plate accord / 2.2 crv and his weekend toy of s2000 absolute dynamite i could talk about the s2000 all day but i want we love honda older brother owns a 1.8 vtec sport 5dr we love it so i no a hell of a lot of how the difference in hondas drive. Personally i think the raw turbo power in his accord would wipe out any 2.2 civic. Rev range on a civic diesel is shocking it takes a long time to kick in the turbo in the civic and once you are there you get a quick 2-3 seconds then you have to change gear you feel alot of torque but it is not for long enough Where as in the accord the turbo is always in anytime you need it its there! 2.2 civic is rubbish for old lazy men. Any car is fast if you no the car and what it can do You would just get in a diesel and asume it was faster a better quicker car because you feel abit of torque and save fuel.

Vtec is passion and for people who no how to drive and love driving !!!

Honda sell different ranges to different people every body has a budget and a prefrence of driving if if you think the diesiel is a faster car because you get a bit of torque and its qiet thats why you bought it ! You wouldnt buy a type r and have a box of ear plugs next to you becuse it is really fast but to loud for your ears would you Vtec is superb if you no how to use it my friend drove my car the other day he drives a 2.0 t a3 and he said it was slow. Then i drove it with him in it and showed him how to use the VTEC and he soon changed his mind

VTEC AND DIESEL ARE LIKE DIFFERENT PLANETS YOU CANNOT COMPARE SO PLEASE DO NOT COMPARE THEM IF YOU DONT REALY NO ABOUT VTEC !!