Performance 2.2 Diesel Rebore / Stroke ?

HCCTDI · 15th August 2012, 21:54

Hi Guys

Just a quick thought...

on a 2.2 Diesel what are the options re-bore/stroke wise ?

are there any aftermarket kits or would it need to be custom ?

Is it even possible? and is there worthwhile gains to be had?

Let the

Begin

JohnnyBoy · 15th August 2012, 23:18

coste1l · 16th August 2012, 00:38

Clutch/dmf cant take the torque anyway so the 2.2 limit will never be found until a workable permanent solution is found

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

elegance · 16th August 2012, 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by HCCTDI

Hi Guys

Just a quick thought...

on a 2.2 Diesel what are the options re-bore/stroke wise ?

are there any aftermarket kits or would it need to be custom ?

Is it even possible? and is there worthwhile gains to be had?

Let the

Begin

Going that route, you would need to upgrade all the internals.

Don't see the point when you can easily get 200 bhp and 330 lb ft torque
just from a remap.

If you want more than that, buy a different car (Evo, Scooby, etc)

Steve

Syx · 16th August 2012, 09:56

As others have indicated - absolutely no point in doing this at all.

coste1l · 16th August 2012, 10:43

in theory there is value in it but no-one has even explored all the bolt on options, i think that smf with the acura twin plate clutch should resolve the clutch issues

Syx · 16th August 2012, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by coste1l

in theory there is value in it but no-one has even explored all the bolt on options, i think that smf with the acura twin plate clutch should resolve the clutch issues

Can the box take it with a SMF though? I'm waiting for someone to test this out

Personally I don't think that a rebore is worth the cost when there's other options (e.g. hybrid) to explore first.

coste1l · 16th August 2012, 11:08

who knows? in theory the box should be stronger than a type r one and tdi north should know how far that box can go?

LincsPoacher · 16th August 2012, 14:27

pulpmelon_r · 16th August 2012, 15:57

Why take a perfectly good eco focused engine in a family hatchback and spend tens of thousands to make it into a performance engine?

Does not compute...

stevencavanagh · 16th August 2012, 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpmelon_r

Why take a perfectly good eco focused engine in a family hatchback and spend tens of thousands to make it into a performance engine?

Does not compute...

Agreed it doesn't compute, but please tell me it isn't an eco focused engine as I'd have to sell!

I try very hard not be buy eco based rubbish!

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coste1l · 16th August 2012, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by pulpmelon_r

Why take a perfectly good eco focused engine in a family hatchback and spend tens of thousands to make it into a performance engine?

Does not compute...

The sense of satisfaction that comes from built not bought? 70's fords with v8's and nitrous springs right to mind

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stoney · 16th August 2012, 17:01

***** n giggles , best excuse ever for trying new ideas

Deathstar · 16th August 2012, 17:23

Give the guy a break, it's only like spending tens of thousands on a 1.5 cr-z.

If TDI mentioned it, you would all be creaming yourselves!

Sent from my phone!

pulpmelon_r · 16th August 2012, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by coste1l

The sense of satisfaction that comes from built not bought? 70's fords with v8's and nitrous springs right to mind

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

Those 1970's diesel v8 fords with their 60MPG and low carbon emisions, those were the days...

HCCTDI · 16th August 2012, 18:39

Maybe I should have explained my intentions better and It is true that the clutch is a known week spot and a solution does need to be found also it would be cheaper to change the car to a petrol as pointed out,

The reason I bring the subject up is because surly the mpg regardless would be better on the diesel engine ,there is more torque at the moment than we can handle with remaps but I would like to focus on low down grunt at low rpm's and around improvement with the same reliability with faster and lower in the rpm turbo spool. one of the best ways to do this would be to increase capacity or have I got it wrong ?

In reply to elegence what other components would you suggest need to be included and why ?

In reply to Syx the hybrid idea I hadn't even thought off, Good idea that would also aid my goal but that's another option and another discussion. If there is an existing thread if so I would really appreciate a link to it

In reply to Stevencavanagh & Pulpmelon I believe the engine is eco focused but in this day and age this is also becoming an important factor in performance cars.
this video on the 2.2 i-CTDi engine may interest you and other members

Honda turbo diesel engine: i-CTDi - YouTube

That particular video also makes me want to take into account the modifications honda have made to improve efficiency and I also believe 1min in it demonstrates a need for the piston shape to be the same to maintain this efficiency, can anyone confirm this ?

Also Does anyone know how much play we have with bore / stroke ?

I understand the expense but other people clearly are interested also so I believe its worth discussing.

SykomantiS · 16th August 2012, 19:02

Well, if that video is anything to go by, you have exactly zero play regarding the bore- it's already down to 3mm between cylinders. I dunno, but that's a bit hard to swallow. Not saying it isn't, but damn... So any increase in capacity will have to be in the form of 'n stroker crank.

Relic · 16th August 2012, 23:36

Low and mid Torque/power isnt the issue
You can have 370lb ft by 2800rpm if you want.
The drivetrain wont take it.. well the clutch/flywheel at least.

therefore...cc = fail

Where it does lack is top end power.
Mainly down to the exhaust ports being so goddam small and choking the engine.
Space and decent piping would be more beneficial along with a modified turbo.

You can pump upto 83mg/str fuel (100mm3) at high rpm which allows for 231hp @ 4000rpm
If the airflow is there that is.
Fuel system will need recalibration if you want to load the pump more.

stoney · 17th August 2012, 00:11

Surely if you stroke the motor your rod speed will increase so you will have to limit the revs??

Narrowing the power band even more -not what you want on an already low revving engine

Relic · 17th August 2012, 08:46

I dont think that is so much of a limiting factor with this engine.
I believe the main issue is ignition delay and how long it takes to inject all the required fuel and burn it.
Diesels simply run out of time to do this at high revs.

15th August 2012, 21:54	#1 (permalink)
HCCTDI Join Date: 9th July 2012 Location: London UK Posts: 6 Thanks given: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	2.2 Diesel Rebore / Stroke ? Hi Guys Just a quick thought... on a 2.2 Diesel what are the options re-bore/stroke wise ? are there any aftermarket kits or would it need to be custom ? Is it even possible? and is there worthwhile gains to be had? Let the Begin

16th August 2012, 23:36	#18 (permalink)
Relic Cockup Specialist Car: 2007 2.2 Type 'S' GT, Bronze Join Date: 31st August 2009 Location: uk Posts: 12,204 Thanks given: 740 Thanked 1,472 Times in 1,289 Posts iTrader: (0)	Low and mid Torque/power isnt the issue You can have 370lb ft by 2800rpm if you want. The drivetrain wont take it.. well the clutch/flywheel at least. therefore...cc = fail Where it does lack is top end power. Mainly down to the exhaust ports being so goddam small and choking the engine. Space and decent piping would be more beneficial along with a modified turbo. You can pump upto 83mg/str fuel (100mm3) at high rpm which allows for 231hp @ 4000rpm If the airflow is there that is. Fuel system will need recalibration if you want to load the pump more. Last edited by Relic; 16th August 2012 at 23:38.

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15th August 2012, 23:18	#2 (permalink)
JohnnyBoy Angry cat says NO Join Date: 11th October 2010 Location: Wallasey, UK Posts: 3,512 Thanks given: 783 Thanked 409 Times in 327 Posts iTrader: (3)

16th August 2012, 00:38	#3 (permalink)
coste1l Supporter Car: 09 Suzuki Swift Sport white Join Date: 16th January 2010 Location: Sunderland UK Posts: 17,898 Thanks given: 1,122 Thanked 1,993 Times in 1,880 Posts iTrader: (15)	Clutch/dmf cant take the torque anyway so the 2.2 limit will never be found until a workable permanent solution is found Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2

16th August 2012, 09:56	#5 (permalink)
Syx Clingfilmed Car: 2008 2.2 CTS GT Join Date: 22nd December 2009 Location: Luton, UK Posts: 9,186 Thanks given: 853 Thanked 1,661 Times in 1,455 Posts iTrader: (38)	As others have indicated - absolutely no point in doing this at all.

16th August 2012, 10:43	#6 (permalink)
coste1l Supporter Car: 09 Suzuki Swift Sport white Join Date: 16th January 2010 Location: Sunderland UK Posts: 17,898 Thanks given: 1,122 Thanked 1,993 Times in 1,880 Posts iTrader: (15)	in theory there is value in it but no-one has even explored all the bolt on options, i think that smf with the acura twin plate clutch should resolve the clutch issues

16th August 2012, 11:08	#8 (permalink)
coste1l Supporter Car: 09 Suzuki Swift Sport white Join Date: 16th January 2010 Location: Sunderland UK Posts: 17,898 Thanks given: 1,122 Thanked 1,993 Times in 1,880 Posts iTrader: (15)	who knows? in theory the box should be stronger than a type r one and tdi north should know how far that box can go?

16th August 2012, 14:27	#9 (permalink)
LincsPoacher Supporter Car: 2009 2.2 EX GT Milano Red Join Date: 20th December 2011 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 969 Thanks given: 47 Thanked 127 Times in 122 Posts iTrader: (2)

16th August 2012, 15:57	#10 (permalink)
pulpmelon_r Join Date: 12th December 2010 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,281 Thanks given: 22 Thanked 174 Times in 131 Posts iTrader: (0)	Why take a perfectly good eco focused engine in a family hatchback and spend tens of thousands to make it into a performance engine? Does not compute...

16th August 2012, 17:01	#13 (permalink)
stoney Supporter Car: 2007 FN2 GT Join Date: 24th March 2010 Location: lisburn Posts: 7,205 Thanks given: 160 Thanked 1,084 Times in 919 Posts iTrader: (9)	***** n giggles , best excuse ever for trying new ideas

16th August 2012, 17:23	#14 (permalink)
Deathstar Car: 12 2.2 CR-V EX (The wifes) Join Date: 3rd August 2009 Location: Lancashire Posts: 242 Thanks given: 36 Thanked 32 Times in 26 Posts iTrader: (0)	Give the guy a break, it's only like spending tens of thousands on a 1.5 cr-z. If TDI mentioned it, you would all be creaming yourselves! Sent from my phone!

16th August 2012, 19:02	#17 (permalink)
SykomantiS Derv Driver Car: 2008 Civic 2.2 VXi 5Dr Join Date: 14th December 2011 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 243 Thanks given: 34 Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts iTrader: (1)	Well, if that video is anything to go by, you have exactly zero play regarding the bore- it's already down to 3mm between cylinders. I dunno, but that's a bit hard to swallow. Not saying it isn't, but damn... So any increase in capacity will have to be in the form of 'n stroker crank.

17th August 2012, 00:11	#19 (permalink)
stoney Supporter Car: 2007 FN2 GT Join Date: 24th March 2010 Location: lisburn Posts: 7,205 Thanks given: 160 Thanked 1,084 Times in 919 Posts iTrader: (9)	Surely if you stroke the motor your rod speed will increase so you will have to limit the revs?? Narrowing the power band even more -not what you want on an already low revving engine

17th August 2012, 08:46	#20 (permalink)
Relic Cockup Specialist Car: 2007 2.2 Type 'S' GT, Bronze Join Date: 31st August 2009 Location: uk Posts: 12,204 Thanks given: 740 Thanked 1,472 Times in 1,289 Posts iTrader: (0)	I dont think that is so much of a limiting factor with this engine. I believe the main issue is ignition delay and how long it takes to inject all the required fuel and burn it. Diesels simply run out of time to do this at high revs.