Remap Javorb's Digital Tuning Box - Page 3

Charley Farley · 1st February 2008, 17:50

Hi darks01 & csmcqueen

I got the tuning box fitted at Paramount Performance Slough Berkshire. However having seen now what they did I could have done it myself. Before I got the box I consulted Diesel Bob in Lancs. They are a diesel engine specialist tuning company. They advised me that my engine would work best with a digital box rather than an analogue. Analogue boxes are more robust but digital ones give more power and better fuel economy and work better with digital systems (its basically a new fuel map working inconjuction with the ecu). So, having had the box awhile now this has proven to be true. They also said that a 25% increase in power and torque was a safe level. Beyond this you would have to consider fitting stronger clutch. So that is basically why I've gone for this box.

charlas · 6th February 2008, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo51

Its a briskoda.net meeting. I booked it whilst I still had my vRS

Hehehe, thought I recognised the name

another vRS driver come over to the Civic

kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co · 9th February 2008, 23:32

Just got my civic es cdti less than 2 weeks ago and have been reading up on the tuning of them via this forum.
I bought a Tuning Box for my Rav4 T180 D4D from Javorbs ebay website and unfortunately it made no difference at all. It was an analogue one only £125 and when it did not work he replaced it with another one but I could not feel any difference in power whatsoever.
Apparently the T180 Rav is pretty hard to adjust with a box/chip/remap as he explained.
I got a full refund no worries, he was excellent to deal with too.
I want to up the power on the civic soon once it is run in and dont know whether to give his tuning box another go?
Maybe it will work better on civic?
Any ideas?

Charley Farley · 10th February 2008, 00:15

Hi Kevin

As you can see from my preceding e-mails Javorbs digital box does work on the 2.2 diesel civic. The only drawback is that from cold the engine can be a bit hesitant but after it warms up its fine. It takes about 2 months to settle down, so don't be alarmed at its jumpy nature at the begining. With regards to power setting 3 was the one I had it set on at the begining being the cautious soul that I am. This gave 155bhp and 271 lbft torque. I since read that this box can produce 167bhp and 298 lbft of torque. So I have now turned it to setting 4 which has increased the torque, not really sure about power until I give it a rolling road test. I'll do that later this year once the the engine has done 20,000 plus miles. Diesel's take a long time to loosen up. One further comment is that my engine is a low powered one, I think producing 140bhp from stock. If yours is a more powerful example ie producing 150bhp plus, this may inhibit you from using the highest setting, which is number 4.

Charley Farley · 31st May 2008, 20:58

Hi All

A further update on Javorbs wonder box. Wondor box because I had the pleasure of racing my mate today at the Santa Pod raceway BWYB. What an experience! Well lets get down to what happened, not being regular track person. Chris has a new Seat Leon FR (Golf GTI engine with DSG transmission). So hear are the figures:

.............. Chris.............. Charley Farley

60ft.......... 2.4341.......... 2.86

330ft
approx 0-60 .....6.54............ 7.54

1/8 mile..... 9.94............ 11.39

1/4.......... 15.33............. 17.41

So you can see that although I was comprehensively beaten the figures were pretted good for a diesel. We had another attempt in which I went faster still:

............ Chris............. Charley Farley

60ft....... 2.4380............ 2.71

330ft
approx 0-60 ....6.55............. 7.32

1/8 mile....... 9.95............. 11.16

1/4......... 15.34............ 17.04

I was really impressed with the 0-60 on the second run, this engine has real guts and if we had time for a third run I think I would have got the 1/4 mile figure into the 16s. and possibly a 7.0sec 0-60 time. The 2.2 engine is abosulte gem, well done Honda.

carl0s · 1st June 2008, 00:16

Hi guys

Can somebody explain exactly what this box does?
I have a 2.2-i-CDTI type-s gt on the way and am interested in raising boost. On my Supra this is done mechanically via decatting, and then a fuel cut controller is fitted to clamp the boost signal to the ECU to stop fuel cut when high boost is seen by the ECU. This is fine and the Supra's ECU goes flat out on the injectors at anything above about 15psi, so there's no worry about running lean.

What exactly does this "tuning box" do? It doesn't sound like a remap, and why the two versions (digital & analogue)?

My gut feeling, especially from what Charley was saying (justifying the problems and hesitation due to the box being so amazingly smart and complex..

) is one of snake oil or 2p lambda resistors.

Am I wrong? Are these things proper? How do they work?

cheers

Carl

p.s. the car will be leased, so the idea of something that can be removed should any problems occur, and upon handing the car back, is quite interesting to me. I don't want an invalidated warranty for example, I'd rather just remove the box, and pretend it was never there if anything goes wrong.

Charley Farley · 1st June 2008, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl0s

Hi guys

Can somebody explain exactly what this box does?

What exactly does this "tuning box" do? It doesn't sound like a remap, and why the two versions (digital & analogue)?

My gut feeling, especially from what Charley was saying (justifying the problems and hesitation due to the box being so amazingly smart and complex..

) is one of snake oil or 2p lambda resistors.

Am I wrong? Are these things proper? How do they work?

cheers

Carl

p.s. the car will be leased, so the idea of something that can be removed should any problems occur, and upon handing the car back, is quite interesting to me. I don't want an invalidated warranty for example, I'd rather just remove the box, and pretend it was never there if anything goes wrong.

Hi Carl0s

Javorb sells two types of diesel tuning box digital and analogue. I have never tried the analogue box so I cannot comment on it. The only thing I would say is that power and torque are less for the analogue box and I have been told by diesel experts that you should use a digital box with a digital system which the civic uses.

The digital box is NOT a single resistor. It is a new map for the fuel supply which the ECU has to learn, (It takes approx 2 months to learn). There are settings one to four on the box which you can use for the Civ. I started with setting 3 which produced 154 bhp and 273 lbft of torque. Then I realised that the maker of the box was quoting 168bhp and 298 lbft of torque so I turned it up to setting 4. My trip to santa pod recently was using setting 4. I also use Millers power plus 4 which helps with combustion and fuel economy. I've started to use Shell V power in various concentrations. I haven't verified the 168bhp yet on the rolling road but my trip to santa pod seems to suggest that 168bhp is possible. This box is very simple to fit and can be easily removed. The hesitation now hardly occurs at all, this unit takes a while to settle down. Once it has bedded in its fine and returns good economy if driven with restraint.

carl0s · 2nd June 2008, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Farley

Hi Carl0s

Javorb sells two types of diesel tuning box digital and analogue. I have never tried the analogue box so I cannot comment on it. The only thing I would say is that power and torque are less for the analogue box and I have been told by diesel experts that you should use a digital box with a digital system which the civic uses.

The digital box is NOT a single resistor. It is a new map for the fuel supply which the ECU has to learn, (It takes approx 2 months to learn). There are settings one to four on the box which you can use for the Civ. I started with setting 3 which produced 154 bhp and 273 lbft of torque. Then I realised that the maker of the box was quoting 168bhp and 298 lbft of torque so I turned it up to setting 4. My trip to santa pod recently was using setting 4. I also use Millers power plus 4 which helps with combustion and fuel economy. I've started to use Shell V power in various concentrations. I haven't verified the 168bhp yet on the rolling road but my trip to santa pod seems to suggest that 168bhp is possible. This box is very simple to fit and can be easily removed. The hesitation now hardly occurs at all, this unit takes a while to settle down. Once it has bedded in its fine and returns good economy if driven with restraint.

It's four new fuel maps then really isn't it? Or is it just a 4-way potentiometer?

I remain extremely cynical.
So there are no boost increases?

Charley Farley · 2nd June 2008, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl0s

It's four new fuel maps then really isn't it? Or is it just a 4-way potentiometer?

I remain extremely cynical.
So there are no boost increases?

Hi carl0s

Its not potentiometer. Its actually 4 sepatate full maps giving you the option of choosing your desired state of tune. For example their was a definite torque increase from 3 to 4, it was felt straight away. Also the unit is intelligent. Firstly the ECU has to the learn the new map every time you change the setting. You can't change the setting with engine running. Secondly, its bias is towards economy, when you low or part throttle it is still using the original fuel map. Its only when you use full throttle that the new map takes over. So 99% of the time the transition is seamless, its the odd occasion that you realise its switching. The extra power and torque is staggering. You really do have to be careful on A roads as high speed is achieved very quickly. Also in gear response is immediate even in 5th and 6th. It will pull cleanly from 1500rpm in fifth! Sorry I forgot to add that it does not effect the turbo boost, this box just adjusts the fuel timing. So there you have it. Its your choice carl0s.

carl0s · 2nd June 2008, 19:14

What you are saying is that it's a pre-configured piggyback fuel computer like an S-AFC, a HKS V-con or an eManage. I'm not buying it. The car is a turbo car. The way to increase power on a turbo car is to increase turbo boost pressure. Only then would you need to play with fuelling.

I think it is more likely that the digital one is a digitally controlled resistor which is still just messing with the lambda or o2 whatever sensor readings. This is a bit different to a remap.

I'd love to be wrong but my sceptical cynical side is just screaming at me right now, sorry

Nobody has really said what the box is, what it interfaces to etc. A fuel computer would be interfacing with the injectors and various other things.

carl0s · 2nd June 2008, 20:44

I'm not being argumentative by the way, or at least I'm not intending to be! I know next to nothing about automotive ECUs, but I am really really really sceptical about this wonder box. Sorry

The fact that there's an analogue one that "might work", but if it doesn't you'll be sold the digital one, just shouts rubbish to me. It's either right or it's not, and there shouldn't be any of this placebo talk either ("I can really tell it's faster. I think. I'm sure I can. I think I can anyway. It's definitely doing *something* 'cause the car's nearly stalling", for example) . It just works or it doesn't. The question is: does it raise boost above stock levels?

edit: I see you said it doesn't affect boost. That settles it for me. A waste of money.

Charley Farley · 2nd June 2008, 21:37

Hi carl0s

I can see that your sceptical and you have every right to be if you have not tried it on your car. I have to say that I was intially going to buy a tunit box but was put off by the price. So I started to look for alternatives and found this box. I still though it might be a shot in dark but decided to go for it. It didn't help at the begining that there was very little information as to how it works. I had to do alot of digging and eventually found the web site. (Mal elecronics). All I know is, is that it does work. And my car is all the better for it.

fickel · 3rd June 2008, 15:55

But looking at that 0 to 60 time suggests it's doing something.
You've knocked a second off it.

For the price you can't argue.
If your engines goes pop, is there any come back with this piece of kit?
It would be interesting to measure boost etc.
Is there any detailed info on the site?

Sounds a bit like a boxed up/sexed up Dawes device but done with electronics as opposed to a chunk of brass (ie wider spread of boost under roughly the same curve)
Dawes Device -The Basic Boost Controller

I personally will be going the celtic tuning route

carl0s · 3rd June 2008, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by fickel

But looking at that 0 to 60 time suggests it's doing something.
You've knocked a second off it.

For the price you can't argue.

I personally will be going the celtic tuning route

You're being sarcastic aren't you?

To knock a second off I reckon you'd need to add a lot of horsepower. I think there's a 0-60 calculator somewhere on the 'net which has proven to be pretty reliable. It says how many HP you will need to reach a certain 0-60 time.

carl0s · 3rd June 2008, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fickel

Sounds a bit like a boxed up/sexed up Dawes device but done with electronics as opposed to a chunk of brass
Dawes Device -The Basic Boost Controller

If I recall correctly, the Dawes Device is a mechanical ball and spring type device which blocks off the turbo wastegate. This box is nothing like that, and does not increase turbo boost pressure at all, hence why it's obviously garbage.

NEEMSTAR · 3rd June 2008, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl0s

You're being sarcastic aren't you?

To knock a second off I reckon you'd need to add a lot of horsepower. I think there's a 0-60 calculator somewhere on the 'net which has proven to be pretty reliable. It says how many HP you will need to reach a certain 0-60 time.

obviously torque and weight also have a major part to play as well as BHP

LetsTorqueBHP - Home this one? although that only has sport/y cars.

obviously Charleys claim that he could have done 0-60 in 7 secs with this box is very interesting and in R territory ..... (until you get too a bend

)

carl0s · 3rd June 2008, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEEMSTAR

obviously torque and weight also have a major part to play as well as BHP

LetsTorqueBHP - Home this one? although that only has sport/y cars.

obviously Charleys claim that he could have done 0-60 in 7 secs with this box is very interesting and in R territory ..... (until you get too a bend

)

I'm pretty sure we saw a dyno printout before which showed almost exactly the same power levels as a stock car. It just had an inflated flywheel HP figure, which was never measured anyway.

I just tried out the 0 - 60 calculators, and they don't seem to work with diesel figures at all. The 2.2 Diesel weighs 1613kg from what I just googled. The theory is "weight in kg / (bhp * 0.9)" and it just doesn't seem to work for lower powered cars at all

Charley Farley · 3rd June 2008, 19:12

Hi guys

Your obviously very sceptical about the performance figures. They were recorded at Santa Pod using there computer technology, so I think its pretty acurate. Also I was phyiscally racing my mate in a Seat Leon Fr 200bhp! So I think it was an amazing feat even to get close.

Charley Farley · 3rd June 2008, 19:38

Hi Again

You can increase horsepower by increasing the fuel alone as these cars have an oversupply of air so there is some scope to increase power and torque by fuel alone. Turbo boost pressure does not get affected. You have to remember that torque has gone up to 300 lbft and power to 168bhp, thats 30bhp more and 50 lbft more, so the 0-60 time reflects this increase. For the first 40 metres I was actually ahead of my mates car which has more power that my civ. But obviously he overtook me once his car got past 60 metres. I know he was struggling with his DSG, but I still think its remarkable achievement nevertheless. At somepoint when I have the time and money I will put the car on the rolling road again to see what the figures are.

carl0s · 3rd June 2008, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charley Farley

Hi All

Well I finally got an opportunity to get the car to the rolling road with some interesting results and here they are.

127.3 Bhp at the wheels

154.5 Bhp at the flywheel.

The technician was very helpful and stated that tuning boxes rarely gave the promised bhp figures ( which in my case was a 25% improvement in power but in this case 9%). He also said that in standard form the engine was probably giving out approx 140 bhp so that's what Honda quote for the 2.2. The torque output had increased to 271 Ib ft but again there was no knowing what the original value was. He suggested that I keep the box on setting three and the engine was working fine on this setting. So I have aprrox a 14.5 bhp improvement which isn't bad and posssibly a few more horses as the engine loosen's up. The other observation was there wasn't any excessive smoke and an increase to the fourth setting might increase the possiblity of smoke.

The dyno measured 127.3hp at your wheels. It then estimated this to be 154.5 flywheel horsepower.

Robbo51's stock car was dyno'd and measured about same - 126.22 to 128.17 hp at the wheels. This was then estimated as being 138.10 flywheel hp, which happens to be about spot on for a stock car.

Now which estimate do you think is correct? It seems to me that the transmission correction factor used on Robbo51's dyno run was much closer to correct than the 21-ish percent used for your run. They really think your gearbox had 21% losses? It's a manual box isn't it?

1st February 2008, 17:50	#41 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 488 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi darks01 & csmcqueen I got the tuning box fitted at Paramount Performance Slough Berkshire. However having seen now what they did I could have done it myself. Before I got the box I consulted Diesel Bob in Lancs. They are a diesel engine specialist tuning company. They advised me that my engine would work best with a digital box rather than an analogue. Analogue boxes are more robust but digital ones give more power and better fuel economy and work better with digital systems (its basically a new fuel map working inconjuction with the ecu). So, having had the box awhile now this has proven to be true. They also said that a 25% increase in power and torque was a safe level. Beyond this you would have to consider fitting stronger clutch. So that is basically why I've gone for this box. Last edited by Charley Farley; 1st February 2008 at 17:53.

31st May 2008, 20:58	#45 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 488 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi All A further update on Javorbs wonder box. Wondor box because I had the pleasure of racing my mate today at the Santa Pod raceway BWYB. What an experience! Well lets get down to what happened, not being regular track person. Chris has a new Seat Leon FR (Golf GTI engine with DSG transmission). So hear are the figures: .............. Chris.............. Charley Farley 60ft.......... 2.4341.......... 2.86 330ft approx 0-60 .....6.54............ 7.54 1/8 mile..... 9.94............ 11.39 1/4.......... 15.33............. 17.41 So you can see that although I was comprehensively beaten the figures were pretted good for a diesel. We had another attempt in which I went faster still: ............ Chris............. Charley Farley 60ft....... 2.4380............ 2.71 330ft approx 0-60 ....6.55............. 7.32 1/8 mile....... 9.95............. 11.16 1/4......... 15.34............ 17.04 I was really impressed with the 0-60 on the second run, this engine has real guts and if we had time for a third run I think I would have got the 1/4 mile figure into the 16s. and possibly a 7.0sec 0-60 time. The 2.2 engine is abosulte gem, well done Honda. Last edited by Charley Farley; 31st May 2008 at 21:08.

2nd June 2008, 20:44	#51 (permalink)
carl0s Wheelnut Join Date: 31st May 2008 Location: Manchester, England, UK Posts: 62 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	I'm not being argumentative by the way, or at least I'm not intending to be! I know next to nothing about automotive ECUs, but I am really really really sceptical about this wonder box. Sorry The fact that there's an analogue one that "might work", but if it doesn't you'll be sold the digital one, just shouts rubbish to me. It's either right or it's not, and there shouldn't be any of this placebo talk either ("I can really tell it's faster. I think. I'm sure I can. I think I can anyway. It's definitely doing something 'cause the car's nearly stalling", for example) . It just works or it doesn't. The question is: does it raise boost above stock levels? edit: I see you said it doesn't affect boost. That settles it for me. A waste of money. Last edited by carl0s; 2nd June 2008 at 21:18.

3rd June 2008, 15:55	#53 (permalink)
fickel Wheelnut Join Date: 16th May 2008 Location: West Yorks ...Near Lancs/N Yorks Border Posts: 89 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader: (0)	I'm a cynic too But looking at that 0 to 60 time suggests it's doing something. You've knocked a second off it. For the price you can't argue. If your engines goes pop, is there any come back with this piece of kit? It would be interesting to measure boost etc. Is there any detailed info on the site? Sounds a bit like a boxed up/sexed up Dawes device but done with electronics as opposed to a chunk of brass (ie wider spread of boost under roughly the same curve) Dawes Device -The Basic Boost Controller I personally will be going the celtic tuning route Last edited by fickel; 3rd June 2008 at 16:01.

3rd June 2008, 19:38	#59 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 488 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi Again You can increase horsepower by increasing the fuel alone as these cars have an oversupply of air so there is some scope to increase power and torque by fuel alone. Turbo boost pressure does not get affected. You have to remember that torque has gone up to 300 lbft and power to 168bhp, thats 30bhp more and 50 lbft more, so the 0-60 time reflects this increase. For the first 40 metres I was actually ahead of my mates car which has more power that my civ. But obviously he overtook me once his car got past 60 metres. I know he was struggling with his DSG, but I still think its remarkable achievement nevertheless. At somepoint when I have the time and money I will put the car on the rolling road again to see what the figures are. Last edited by Charley Farley; 3rd June 2008 at 19:40.


This thread is about: Javorb's Digital Tuning Box, it's in Engines and Transmission at the Honda Civic forum Civinfo; Hi darks01 & csmcqueen I got the tuning box fitted at Paramount Performance Slough Berkshire. However having seen now what they did I could have ...

9th February 2008, 23:32	#43 (permalink)
kevin@wilson4569.fsnet.co Valve Cap Join Date: 26th January 2008 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Just got my civic es cdti less than 2 weeks ago and have been reading up on the tuning of them via this forum. I bought a Tuning Box for my Rav4 T180 D4D from Javorbs ebay website and unfortunately it made no difference at all. It was an analogue one only £125 and when it did not work he replaced it with another one but I could not feel any difference in power whatsoever. Apparently the T180 Rav is pretty hard to adjust with a box/chip/remap as he explained. I got a full refund no worries, he was excellent to deal with too. I want to up the power on the civic soon once it is run in and dont know whether to give his tuning box another go? Maybe it will work better on civic? Any ideas?

10th February 2008, 00:15	#44 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 488 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi Kevin As you can see from my preceding e-mails Javorbs digital box does work on the 2.2 diesel civic. The only drawback is that from cold the engine can be a bit hesitant but after it warms up its fine. It takes about 2 months to settle down, so don't be alarmed at its jumpy nature at the begining. With regards to power setting 3 was the one I had it set on at the begining being the cautious soul that I am. This gave 155bhp and 271 lbft torque. I since read that this box can produce 167bhp and 298 lbft of torque. So I have now turned it to setting 4 which has increased the torque, not really sure about power until I give it a rolling road test. I'll do that later this year once the the engine has done 20,000 plus miles. Diesel's take a long time to loosen up. One further comment is that my engine is a low powered one, I think producing 140bhp from stock. If yours is a more powerful example ie producing 150bhp plus, this may inhibit you from using the highest setting, which is number 4.

1st June 2008, 00:16	#46 (permalink)
carl0s Wheelnut Join Date: 31st May 2008 Location: Manchester, England, UK Posts: 62 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	Hi guys Can somebody explain exactly what this box does? I have a 2.2-i-CDTI type-s gt on the way and am interested in raising boost. On my Supra this is done mechanically via decatting, and then a fuel cut controller is fitted to clamp the boost signal to the ECU to stop fuel cut when high boost is seen by the ECU. This is fine and the Supra's ECU goes flat out on the injectors at anything above about 15psi, so there's no worry about running lean. What exactly does this "tuning box" do? It doesn't sound like a remap, and why the two versions (digital & analogue)? My gut feeling, especially from what Charley was saying (justifying the problems and hesitation due to the box being so amazingly smart and complex.. ) is one of snake oil or 2p lambda resistors. Am I wrong? Are these things proper? How do they work? cheers Carl p.s. the car will be leased, so the idea of something that can be removed should any problems occur, and upon handing the car back, is quite interesting to me. I don't want an invalidated warranty for example, I'd rather just remove the box, and pretend it was never there if anything goes wrong.

2nd June 2008, 19:14	#50 (permalink)
carl0s Wheelnut Join Date: 31st May 2008 Location: Manchester, England, UK Posts: 62 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader: (0)	What you are saying is that it's a pre-configured piggyback fuel computer like an S-AFC, a HKS V-con or an eManage. I'm not buying it. The car is a turbo car. The way to increase power on a turbo car is to increase turbo boost pressure. Only then would you need to play with fuelling. I think it is more likely that the digital one is a digitally controlled resistor which is still just messing with the lambda or o2 whatever sensor readings. This is a bit different to a remap. I'd love to be wrong but my sceptical cynical side is just screaming at me right now, sorry Nobody has really said what the box is, what it interfaces to etc. A fuel computer would be interfacing with the injectors and various other things.

2nd June 2008, 21:37	#52 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 488 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi carl0s I can see that your sceptical and you have every right to be if you have not tried it on your car. I have to say that I was intially going to buy a tunit box but was put off by the price. So I started to look for alternatives and found this box. I still though it might be a shot in dark but decided to go for it. It didn't help at the begining that there was very little information as to how it works. I had to do alot of digging and eventually found the web site. (Mal elecronics). All I know is, is that it does work. And my car is all the better for it.

3rd June 2008, 19:12	#58 (permalink)
Charley Farley Triangular Exhaust Join Date: 25th September 2006 Location: Greenford West London Posts: 488 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader: (0)	Hi guys Your obviously very sceptical about the performance figures. They were recorded at Santa Pod using there computer technology, so I think its pretty acurate. Also I was phyiscally racing my mate in a Seat Leon Fr 200bhp! So I think it was an amazing feat even to get close.