Remap Extra Ooomph options for the 2.2

[TTDegs]

*sigh* and I thought this was going to be SO simple...

NB - all figures are as per manufacturers claims! Not mine
Don't ask me why some kW to HP and Nm to lb-ft conversions don't seem to add up either

'In-line fitting' is basically finding the connector block in the engine bay, and un-pluging it. Then plugging one lead from the unit into one of the connectors, and the other lead into the other connector. This 'in-line' method basically appears to fool the system into delivering extra fuel.
extra fuel = extra power.
simple really!
BUT - make sure you read all the posts in here and in linked threads before purchase!
I'm not recommending anything, just reporting what I've found

Honda quote the stats for the stock 2.2 ctdi as
103kW=140HP 340Nm=250lb-ft

graphs from stock 2.2s here -> Rolling Road Results

except that on the dyno, mine gave 149bhp - as completly standard...
so bear in mind that final results may or may not include this 10 horse hike - or I might just have been lucky
EDIT - 323-GTR got similar results for his stock 2.2 too
An anonymous SuperChipper got 146hbp as stock, so it would appear to be around there somewhere.


Misc - adhoc
Check this thread for the unkown work that produced 225bhp and 445Nm...
Other ways of modifying the 2.2 diesel
And 8 pot pistons brakes to match


ODBC tuning companies

SuperChips
Superchips - Rediscover the joy of the open road
click for thread
click for dyno graph
£511 inc VAT and fitting, Apparently deals are available if you look round
One member, who wishes to remain anonymous, has rolling road results showing 190 bhp

Celtic Tuning
This is apparently a non-intrusive ODBC tune
Celtic Tuning - Honda Civic ECU Remap
click for thread OR click for group buy thread
£425, arrive at your door and install it. (£375 for group buy)
185bhp 331lb-ft

e-maps
E-Maps - Products - Honda Civic Performance car ECU chip tuning and mobile engine remaps
no thread yet
costs yet to be determined.
170bhp 290lb-ft

p-torque
according to an email reply - Your Civic can be re-mapped via its OBD port
www.p-torque.co.uk
no thread yet
£325 all in.
+35bhp and +78NM of torque
Waiting on graphs

Shires Performance
CHIP TUNING REMAP suitable for HONDA CIVIC 2.2 i-CTDi on eBay Chips, Performance Tuning Parts, Car Tuning Styling, Cars, Parts Vehicles (item 130148089916 end time 04-Sep-07 13:20:09 BST)
170 bhp 300Nm

Chipped UK Ltd
no results yet, but expecting +40bhp +80Nm
http://www.civinfo.com/forum/engines...ping-read.html
£325 - maybe less for group buy


In-Line Box (fuelling) companies

Diesel Tuning UK LTD Digital Tuning Systems - Honda
click for thread - includes dyno results
www.dieseltalk.co.uk :: View topic - diesel tuning box - new civic
£329 next day del
Comes with 4 base maps (which can be changed if RTB), plus jumpers that can 'tweak' by +/- 30%
178 HP 275 lb-ft
dyno results only gave an increase of 10bhp to 159, but torque was circa 274lb
may have been more to come - but see page 3 of the thread for details

Javorb's tuning box
2 options - analogue and digital
Analogue option discussed here with a dyno graph (but for an Accord, not a Civic)
Charley Farley's opinions here -> Javorb's Digital Tuning Box
and his rolling road results here -> Javorb's Digital Tuning Box
(154.5bhp, 271 lb ft)



Dieselpower Chiptuning
no thread yet.
£359, but don't know if this is inc or ex VAT
168 HP 300 lb-ft
no dyno results available

diesel-tuning.com
no thread yet.
£??? 600euros, inc 20% VAT?
160 HP 275 lb-ft
no dyno results available

Tunit Performance - diesel performance tuning with over 1000 applications
click for thread
£479 inc VAT and fitting. includes link to dlr laptop for tweaking
165 HP 281 lb-ft
no dyno results available

Dragon Tuning box
claimed 166bhp 390Nm
Dragon Performance UK Ltd :: Honda :: Diesel - Civic
£374

Unknown type

pbox.cc
STEINBAUER Tuning Technologies
no thread yet
£399 + VAT
168bhp 300 lb-ft

[rmh999]

I a looking at the same things but had not found so many (good research !!)

I only got the car yesterday but currently my thoughts are to avoid the cheapest.... (not usually a good plan) and i want a removable box not an ECU flash that MAY need re-doing....(i`m lazy)

My current interest is in the tunit.co.uk device as it gives you nine settings you can play with yourself via a dial or switch on the unit, but it is one of the most expensive... always the way...

I think there is someone on this forum who is getting one and doing a review of before and after (hopefully - please) and was getting a dyno before and after instead of just relying on the "feel" to show the ACTUAL difference... i will be waiting for the review on this and if it is favorable may start investigating this seriously....

I am looking to tune out the flat spot thats there for emmissions testing etc and increase power/torque a bit but ideally improve the mpg further as well...some of them appear to be more honest than others about the returns you will see, especially on the mpg figures.... i would be sceptical of anyone suggesting you get more than 10% improvement...

Rob

[3rd Honda]

I think if you are looking to improve economy, you are likely to be disappointed. Economy depends on a huge number of things (only some engine related), whereas all you are altering with a 'chip' tuning is the fuel supply. Basically, all tuning for more power in effect allows more fuel to be burned. If you make much use of the extra output, you will use more fuel, which will offset any small gains made on light throttle.

In general, improving the output of a diesel means adding more fuel and air. More air can be done by raising the boost pressure (something I don't believe these chips do), more fuel by increasing the injection of fuel (which they do).

Most manufacturers set a diesel to run slightly 'lean' on fuel since unlike a petrol engine there is not the risk of 'pinking' and this helps them to get low smoke emissions, reasonable economy over a wide range of conditions (altitude, air density, temperature, part clogged air cleaner element etc.) This means that some increase in output can be achieved by increasing fuel alone.

'Chipping' increases this fuel (I think by 'stretching ' the driving electrical pulse to the injector) - especially under high load to allow more fuel to be burned when demand is greatest - hence producing more power. The risks are that there will be more smoke emissions, higher temperatures, and more stress on the engine, but generally 15 to 20% can be achieved without the smoke becoming noticeable.

I had another diesel tuned a few years back, increasing the output from about 105 bhp to 135 bhp. This was done by increasing boost pressure by about 10%, having a bigger intercooler, and increasing the fueling, especially at full boost pressure. This worked well, but does slightly increase smoke. Economy overall was unchanged, but clearly rather more is used when the extra performance is being used to the full, and possibly very slightly less on light pulling. There were no problems experienced with engine troubles etc. and the engine has now covered nearly 60,000 miles since tuned.

[karlak]

There are 2 criteria I would use.

a) A companies reputation and backup.

b) Ignore the top figure claims, study the power and torque curves. 200 BHP would be great, but not if you only have 50 BHP upto 3,800 rpm (extreme example, but you get my point)


I would go towards Superchips and I hope someone like REVO may get involved, but I believe they only do the VAG group of cars.

[TTDegs]

Originally Posted by rmh999

I a looking at the same things but had not found so many (good research !!)

ta very

Originally Posted by rmh999

I only got the car yesterday but currently my thoughts are to avoid the cheapest.... (not usually a good plan) and i want a removable box not an ECU flash that MAY need re-doing....(i`m lazy)
My current interest is in the tunit.co.uk device as it gives you nine settings you can play with yourself via a dial or switch on the unit, but it is one of the most expensive... always the way...

good man! - yep, my thoughts exactly

Originally Posted by rmh999

I think there is someone on this forum who is getting one and doing a review of before and after (hopefully - please) and was getting a dyno before and after instead of just relying on the "feel" to show the ACTUAL difference... i will be waiting for the review on this and if it is favorable may start investigating this seriously....

unfortunatley, that's me...
I was pretty much sold on the Tunit option, but then one more cropped up, and I started digging...

3rd Honda - agree 100%

Karlak
a) Yep, fully agree - I excluded from the above anyone who (in my eyes anyway) didn't have a clue - cr4p websites, nothing to back their claims up at all etc

b) Also fully agree - but unfortunately BHP and torque is all anyone seems to quote - power curves are very few and far between - though I will be trying to dig further, and will post up anything I get.

This may of course put back my purchase a bit but would be a good idea in the long run

It's also why I'm leaning heavily towards options with 'settings' or a laptop link for tweaking

SuperChips and Revo are the 2 well known names
I'm (personally!) leaning away from SuperChips purely cos of the 'open the ECU' bit, and yes, Revo do only do VAG, which is a real bummer as the results on those are very, very good


I'm currently expecting more detail on the diesel-power option, and have a phone no to speak to someone at dieseltuning on Monday...

[TTDegs]

Had a good chat with Andrew at Diesel Tuning - basic info added to original post above.

More detail:
They do a standard 'red' (performance) and 'green' (green ) box - but these are not working well on cars with 'particulate filters' - which I'm fairly sure we have.

BUT
They also do a 'CRD2' box which is a LOT more configurable
Basically another plug and play box like all the rest, this one can be loaded with custom maps (by them), and then the maps themselves can be 'tweaked' by the user (us) by moving jumpers inside the box.
This allows tweaking of +/- 30%

Andrew is MORE than happy to work with customers to play with the maps to eak out that last little bit of performance


The only downside of all this is that it is possible to overtweak - to the point where the car goes into limp mode.
Not a huge issue (as long as it happens whilst testing, not when on a run somewhere!) - just turn off, tweak back a notch or 2 and carry on.

Standard maps will err on the safe side of limp mode - which is safe
But is is quite as much fun?


This is looking like my favourite at the moment

I'm awaiting pics of install, but don't appear to be any graphs available at this time

14 day no quibble return policy though

[323GT-R]

The thing that worries me on the plug in boxes is what are you actually getting for your money? As a previous Golf TDI owner, the tuning boxes for them consist of nothing more than a resistor, which fools the ECU into thinking the fuel is hotter and therefore less dense than it really is, and so the ECU adds more fuel. It's a crude but relatively effective means of boosting the performance, but the cost of the boxes compared to what's inside them means you're getting ripped off big time... I'm not convinced by the claims made by alot of the companies selling these so called digital tuning boxes etc, I've spoke to a few and none of them seem to have any real idea of how they work - I'm an electronics engineer, and have been working on and modifying cars for over 15 years, so I have a reasonable idea of when I'm being given BS!

For me, a proper remap is really the only option I would consider, unless a tuning box company can demonstrate that I'm not just getting a box full of a few £s worth of components that I could build myself for a fraction of the cost. I hope this doesn't sound negative, as if there is a good solution out there, I'll be upfor it straight away. A friend of mine os a Revo dealer, so I'll see if he can talk to them about any posibility for a remap...

TT, can you get the fitting instructions for the box you're looking at, and see where it plugs into on the car?

[TTDegs]

yep, waiting on the pics

but it plugs in somewhere between the ECU and the injectors I beleive


REVO would be great - but so far all I've had back from them is a 'no'

[TTDegs]

Ok - a fairly major update

Today, at about 2:30 I ordered the box from....

drum roll.....

Diesel Tuning

I've basically decided to go with them as they offer the ability to hold several maps aswell as being able to tweak them, or get brand new maps loaded.

Andrew is willing to work closely with me to get the best possible results we can - the stock maps he has included are already based on work he has done with a previous owner.

Importantly, there is a 14 day no quibble return policy

Box should arrive tommorrow - Royal Mail Special Delivery

Rolling road is booked for Thursday

New camera is sitting on my kitchen table
(Just need to work out how to use the thing now LOL)

So - pics soon and RR* results soon after that :P


Watch this space!




* That's Rolling Road, not RichyRich

[trevorvogt]

TTDegs,
Looking forward to the results, I'm sure Diesel Tuning will get plenty of interest depending on your outcome. I will be saving up for one. Wonder if we/you will get any discounts might be worth mentioning to Andrew that we have this Forum going and see if he can do any deals

[TTDegs]

Well, so far, so good...

It arrived with the postman

new thread started just for this box, to save cluttering up this main discussion thread

[richierich]

Originally Posted by TTDegs

So - pics soon and RR* results soon after that :P


Watch this space!




* That's Rolling Road, not RichyRich

I was wondering. I would be little or no use for that I am afraid.

[TTDegs]

back on the options thread

In a surprise twist...

Whilst I was at the RR, was obviously chatting to the owner (though not whilst he was doing 120mph!)

He has been doing some digging on my (our) behalf.

Obviously he knows a few people

(just to digress for a moment)
Last night he had some sort of race car on the rollers - chevy straight 6 block, twin garrett turbos, stand alone ECU with custom map - 500bhp! :P

but back on track - he had been chatting to the bloke who made the map for it.

And offerred to call him for me (us)...

Upshot is that I need to sort some dates out when I can get there with the car, and he (map bloke) can turn up also
potentially he might be able to do a custom map - via the ODBCII... :P

I'm going to try and tie this in with the second attempt at the DKtuning box - to be fair to them I did say I would work with them to get the best results, and it doesn't feel right to dump them just because of a possibility of something better.
But unless it lives up to it's claims (and I'm not entirely convinced it will to be honest), it will be going back.


I'm not going to add this as an option in the first post, becuase it is just a possibility at the moment.
This guy has had great success, and does it as a business (and drives a Porker Carerra GT as a result of said business success...), so he expects to be able to do something - but won't know for sure till he trys.

[TTDegs]

just to let you know, haven't forgotten about this, I'm just trying out a few of the fuelling options first by using my 'seat of the pants' dyno

Once I've got what feels to be the best fuelling setting from the box, I'll be revisiting the dyno to get the figures and talk to the man about the ODBC...

[IWANTACIVIC]

sounds cool , is there any tuning boxs that maybe do more than over fuel the engine ? as said it mite be dearer but i would think it will be better 4 the cars and us to change more than the fueling i like the sound of remaping because it keeps the engine running more as honda made it just a big more boost etc and ONLY overfuels when needed so when u taking it easy say @ 70 it only uses the fuel it needs. I cant see a box beening as easy on the car mpg and the cat because thats were most of this overfueling mite go if its overfueling even when not needed. BUT I HAVE A OPEN MIND SO LETS GET MORE INFO AND WE WILL REVIEW IT LATER .
just my 10p worth

MAYBE IDEA TO PUT £339 INC VAT IN BRACKETS NEXT TO SUPERCHIP SIMES TO BE LOTS OF OFFERS GOING ON mite change someones mind nearly £200 saving.

[TTDegs]

having spoken the the guy at DKTuning, (delay due to personal circumstances at his end), we're mutually giving up on the tuning box option.

Or at least, I'm sending it back, and he is refunding

All very ammicable, and he is looking into things - more details on the appropriate thread itself

[TTDegs]

original post at the top of the thread updated (in blue)

[TTDegs]

original post ameneded to add Celtic Tuning website, link to discussion thread, and description

[TTDegs]

original post edited to add e-maps

[TTDegs]

From the very few tuners that actually have any sorts of figures to back up their claims...
I've knocked up a simple graph

Obviously I'll continue to update this as and when any of them actually publish anything.

Stock 2.2 is from my dyno results - but GTR323 got very similar results for his standard 2.2
dtuk are my results from the DK UK plug in box
superchips are based on the dyno graph on their site (which is from an Accord 2.2)
Stock 1.8 is from Thomas Lindberg

many thanks to all contributors - and if anyone else knows of or gets dyno results, please shout!


powergraph.jpg